Infidelity

Protect yourself from crossing that line.

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Comments (34)

(23) Chaya, February 8, 2014 7:28 AM

The reality is Lori is right...

Lori is just brinigng up a fact that we should be mindful of.. that men and women can easily 'cross the line' even in a professional setting, and so she is merely suggesting to be mindful of it.

(22) Sara, June 14, 2013 1:55 AM

Today anything can happen no matter the sex

I totally disagree with this assessment. Only two people of the same sex should be together professionally? It can turn into a same sexual relationship, who knows in this day and age. Just because you think people of the same gender should only be together professionally does not make the relationship free of sin. We cannot be blind to anything today. Please people keep an open mind.

(21) Lydia Barrows, June 13, 2013 2:55 PM

Thank you!

Fabulous! Thank you for your honest & open instruction to honor God with our lives & practical situations in which we find ourselves. It is a delight to hear someone challenge fidelity as the highest good to be protected at all costs. Blessings, Lydia B

(20) Reuven Frank, June 13, 2013 9:59 AM

Well done! and, Unfortunately very much needed

I have been watching your vids on character development for some time now.
I guess you could say those are the positive/doing parts.
This tape is more the keep away/avoid doing type.
I think your point is very well made, and (as in the subject line), very much needed.
I believe in a certain amount of fate, and agree as well with the, “If the marriage is strong enough…” [Some of the above comments seem, to be going with those ideas]
On the other hand, I very much agree with you.
Don’t we all pray, “And lead us not unto temptation?” shouldn’t we go at least a little bit out of the way to ‘help us, help ourselves?
If you’re on Weight-Watchers you don’t visit the candy store.
If down deep you’re trying to be true (to yourself, to your relationship, to your truest love), doesn’t it seem only right to protect what is REALLY so near and so dear?
Thank you for your sensitive, loving, and needed words!

(19) Anonymous, June 13, 2013 12:01 AM

Each situation is unique

I have had several dentists who are women. I never felt any attraction while sitting in the chair, in pain, with tubes and their various torture devices inserted into my mouth. On the other hand, I managed several female employees, and I had to make an effort to assure that our relationships should remain strictly professional and nothing else.

(18) lauren inker, June 12, 2013 3:06 PM

low expectations

this is absurd. professionals are trained to behave an in appropriate and professional manner with their patients. if they don't they can ruin their careers. this video implies that professionals are willing to endanger their professional lives and their livelihoods on a whim. it is insulting

Jo, June 13, 2013 10:06 PM

professionals are trained to behave an in appropriate and professional manner, how do you explain the scandals that have brought down presidential candidates, governors congressmen etc, just to name a few?

Alan S., June 14, 2013 6:15 PM

Lauren Inker says it well. People are human, including professionals, lawyers, doctors, indian chiefs, congresspeople and politicians. The moral failings of these people should not tarnish the good work that most professionals, doctors, lawyers, indian chiefs and politicians --those with high standards -- these moral failings should not tar the good ones.

Nancy, June 15, 2013 6:46 PM

not true, lauren

Do you not watch tv and hear the news? Professionals have lusts of the flesh just like anyone else, after all they are human. Look at Bill Clinton. I have been a woman working in all male shops almost my entire working life. It goes on. I have even seen the most committed husband (to my great despair) eventually break down and slip from his marriage when the sexy female office help would walk through the shop in low cut blouses and stop to flirt with the men. My own husband came home with VD and when I went to the doctor he told me to grow up, that EVERY man will cheat when given half a chance. So Lori is correct by advising to do what it takes to guard the marriage. One thing is not to get personal with work acquaintances. If you have to talk about personal problems talk to a trusted family member.

Dina - Jerusalem, June 16, 2013 10:22 AM

watch video again

Nobody is trying to insult professionals. So if it won't be a professional, it could be someone else. We should understand what Lori is saying here and not get sidetracked by her choice of words. She is saying, "BE Careful! These things really happen.". And even if there will be no real affair that could endanger a professional's life, is it good that he/she should be feeling attraction or love or a crush for someone other then their own husband/wife? Even if it will never go any further? Isn't that chipping away at a marriage? Comment 19, June 13, admits that he had to make an effort so that the relationship should remain strictly professional and nothing else. so you see it's not easy. And many don't succeed and fall through. Look what's doing out there . So much heartache. So Lori is saying, " Be Careful". Avoid the pitfalls. Keep away. It's such good advice, I don't understand why anybody should disagree. May H-shem watch over all of us and keep us from temptation. And like comment 20, June 15, said, shouldn't we care enough to try to help ourselves?

(17) Lauren Adilev, June 11, 2013 8:21 PM

Virtual Infidelity

Another area is virtual infidelity. Men and women find friends from high school on Facebook, think that the the person is attractive, they start corresponding, which leads to a meeting,,,I've seen it happen!

(16) Betty Moses, June 11, 2013 7:39 PM

I understand and agree that one has to be very careful about male/female friendships. However, if a marriage is strong enough, there should be no worry about any issues.I grew up with 3 brothers and their friends were my friends as well.I had both male and female friends as did my brothers. This continued as I grew older and am now 75 years old, with plenty of male and female friends, happily married , a mother and grand mother.The thing to remember here is that if one cheats in a marriage it is not because someone more beautiful ot better came along. It is because the marriage was not strong enough. If a marriage is in turmoil, a man or woman will turn to anyone that comes along, not necessarily a friend.

Anonymous, June 13, 2013 1:42 PM

Works both ways

I totally agree with you. But by the same token, there is a good chance that the reason their marriage is so strong is because they were careful not to get too friendly with anyone of the opposite gender. It works both ways.

(15) Anonymous, June 11, 2013 7:31 PM

Truth rocks

You go, girl

We all know in our hearts that what she says is true

(14) Sandrine, June 11, 2013 7:25 PM

Who Knows?

If something must happen it will. And we can't do anything.

(13) Chana, June 11, 2013 5:36 PM

Well Said

I need you to come back to our community and have this chat but more in depth with my husband and his female boss and some of his coworkers. You can't even imagine what a hell I have lived in with this very issue. I have tried to give articles books, talk, cry, beg then get angry giving him this exact reasoning and I was destroyed by him and others. When people are gluttons for attention from the opposite sex none of these laws or reasoning will ever be applied unless put under some serious pressure from someone they fear will think differently of them. My feelings don't count. I am just an inconvenience. You are so right. Soooo right.

(12) Nelson, June 11, 2013 5:17 PM

Bravo Mr. Fischmar, your comments are knee jerk reactionary at it's finest. Of course you have completely missed the point and your comments are actually wrong. Read this definition of Sexism from Merrium Webster: sex·ism

noun \ˈsek-ˌsi-zəm\

Definition of SEXISM

1

: prejudice or discrimination based on sex; especially : discrimination against women

2

: behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex

What lori was saying in this video had none of those qualities. She was speaking equally to men as to women and thereby promoting choosing both sexes for your professional needs not one over the other in all cases which would define sexism. Mrs. Palatnic was asking for the sake of safety to choose the same sex professional not because she thinks one is better or worse then the other. This to me seems obvious but only if your mind isn't locked tight and hear sexism at any suggestion of a choice for any reason whatsoever.

(11) Andrea, June 11, 2013 5:11 PM

To Mr. Fischmar

Mr. Fischmar, you have missed the point. This has nothing to do with sexism. This manner of protecting one's marriage works equally for men and women. Believing that attraction to the opposite gender is something to be dismissed once one is married -- however happily -- is simply wishful thinking.

Food for thought: There are reasons that Jewish Orthodoxy has a substantially lower rate of divorce than that of most other groups - one being, as Ms. Palatnik aptly calls it, the "formality" that maintains protective distance between the genders. And don't you believe that this has anything to do with the subjugation of women. Women do not become close with any men except for those in their immediate families, nor do men become close with women except for those in their families. I'm thrilled to know that my husband does not put himself in situations that could threaten fidelity, and he can be sure that nor do I.

By the way: No one would ever suggest not going to the best care-giver possible. That said, if there is a choice between two equally competent professionals, there is every reason to choose the same-gender pro.

Finally: Political correctness seems to have wreaked havoc with common sense.

(10) Anonymous, June 11, 2013 4:07 PM

He crossed the line

I am the victim of infidelity. My husband was unhappy and depressed: mostly about his career--a typical mid-life crisis, but it spread to the marriage, and he took his anger out on me. Yet I was committed to the marriage and family. He went to a professional meeting and met up with a female colleague he had known many years ago, before he met me. He had been interested in her then, but she had been in a relationship. Now she was available (sort of, still married but she was the victim of her husband's infidelity). And they crossed the line together, although she may have pulled him a little. The grass appeared to be greener......in the process, he destroyed many lives. I gave him every chance to return and rebuild the marriage but he chose not to. Our nearly adult children will never be the same; it has taken me several years to heal and I don't know whether I will really be able to trust and love again. He did not find the happiness he was seeking, although they are still together. He crossed the line, did not believe in boundaries, only believed that he (and his momentary happiness) were the center of the world. The irony is that he has begun to keep kosher, study Torah, but doesn't see his adultery as something wrong. I don't agree with only having same-gender professional relationships or same-gender colleagues, but I do believe in respecting our boundaries. We wear a wedding band for a reason. As a reminder of the commitment that we made to each other.

(9) SusanE, June 11, 2013 4:01 PM

Infidelity doesn't 'Just Happen"

Adultery doesn't just happen. You have to plan ahead to 'cross that line'. You definitely are making your choice when you deliberately pick a place to be alone together. YOU make the decision to be unfaithful. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ If you want to have an affair outside of marriage you will. If you don't want to have an affair outside of marriage you won't. Don't blame bad bahavior on circumstance or on human nature. If a man can't control himself around women at work, he already wants to have an affair. (blames it on work) If he can't control himself at a bar, he shouldn't go to bars or drink. (blames it on alcohol) If he is at the golf course, or gym or stays overnight without his wife anywhere there are women, he's already decided to take that first step

(8) Anonymous, June 11, 2013 3:19 PM

Suggesting something controversial?

Woe to us, the generation where "cautious" and "halachic" has become "controversial"!

(7) Anonymous, June 11, 2013 1:17 AM

Been There

Many years ago I found myself in an situation of infidelity. Lori is right. It is way too dangerous. I didn't know anything about boundaries and didn't realize how easy it was to cross them. Now I am happily married but not a day goes by that I don't feel remorse. I now only choose same sex professionals. I am super cautious around the opposite sex. I learned the hard way. Don't risk it.

(6) Anonymous, June 11, 2013 1:03 AM

I agree that we need to be more careful with our marrgies. Today I was speaking to my hairdresser of the opposite of the sex. He wanted to improve his English. I thought it would be great idea to do an language exchange. As I thought about it driving home I realized that I could be potentially putting my marriage in danger, over something that looks innocent.

(5) Brian Fischmar, June 10, 2013 5:29 PM

Rebuttal to Lori

Dear Lori,

The timing of your sexist comments are so timely. These comments are so destuctive in the United States today. You are perpetuating sexism in today's country. Women are paid less then men for the same job. By going down your path, this gap would widen more. When I am asked what gender do I want as a medical profession, the answer every time is whoever is the best one. That is the only answer for anything. I would not see a male medical professional when I know a female is substantially better. In fact, making that choice, could be the difference of life or death. Men and women are to be treated equal which by law for you being Orthodox is very uncomfortable. Today we have female rabbis and cantors. Gay and Lesbian are even rabbis. Gay and Lesbian are being now allowed to marry. If you take the Torah's word, each one of them would be executed. How does that square with the commandment of not murdering. The fact that you have this podcast and am allowed to talk would be not allowed in our country's past. The liberites that you just earned by becoming a United States citizen your should not take for granted. People have fought and died for your rights. If someone is going to cheat in a marriage, it will happen anyway in any context. If one's marriage is strong, there will be no cheating. If the marriage is so weak, whether it is with a doctor, dentist, or someone at a bar, the cheating will happen.



I am so soory to have to write this because it hurts me and millions of women everywhere and I will stand up to your sexist rules at anytime and anywhere you want to debate me.



Sincerely,



Brian Fischmar

David, June 11, 2013 10:01 AM

Lori's plan will create equality

Imagine if all women demanded female gp's, dentists, lawyers, accountants, personal trainers, car mechanics, plumbers, electricians etc. etc. More than half of the professionals in the workforce would be women and they would be earning equal pay. Don't understand what is sexist about her remarks. She's just saying men and women are physically attracted to each other.

Rodrigo, June 11, 2013 10:37 PM

Carification

Dear Brian: Lori is not promoting or perpetuating sexism for several reasons. FIrst, I do not believe Lori's views are absolute, but rather practical. She strongly encourages" people to opt for a professional of the opposite sex, "whenever possible". We are human and as such we are inclined to err. I am sure she would employ a highly qualified individual over gender, if need be. Hence, why she states whenever "possible". Also, this would only apply to situations that require individuals that work non-life threatening situations such as a hairstylist, maintenance worker, or other such professionals. If someone wants to take music lessons twice a week, for example, the frequency of interaction in this non-life threatning situation may create a marriage threatning environment. Second, you believe that as long as a marriage is well, there is nothing to worry about. The fact is, that no marriage is perfect and that people seem to coincidentally find themselves in tempting situations at the wrong time. How many times have we heard of an infidelity when there is nothing majorly wrong in a marriage? Third, just because our country makes something legal, by no means make it right. G-d's laws are "uncomfortable" for those who follow after their own desires. I love my country but I don't always agree with policies that go against G-d. G-d indeed created men and women and so created rules and laws which would keep us from erring to a regretful degree. Spiritual giants of the Torah may not have been so gigantic if it weren't for their practices such as the one Lori mentioned. You finished by mentioning that if a person is going to cheat, they're going to cheat regardless. That may be true for some people, but others may have been spared had they followed these principles. You said that you would stand up to Lori's sexist rules any time and anywhere. I believe that in reality, you may be taking a stand against G-d's "sexist" rules. "My people perish for lack of knowledge".

(4) Anonymous, June 10, 2013 1:17 PM

Be Cautious

I have worked for various city agencies over a thirty year period. A colleague, female, gave me the best advice I ever had, always keep my door open physically and be alert mentally. Angry workers may put you into the situation of Potiphar's wife and Joseph. As a non-observant Jew then, I did not engage in free, wild sexual behavior, nor did I think myself to be a sexual magnet. Sexual vibes are out there. Even if one is not looking for "it," that does not mean that someone may find you attractive and will look for some just like you. Be cautious. The workplace has more mines waiting to explode!

(3) Anonymous, June 10, 2013 12:51 PM

Hi! Lore
It was my case. I had a wonderful marriage, but one day my husband left home because he got another woman in his work. She knew he had a beautiful family but she didn´t care anything, So i losed my husband. It was very sad.

(2) Anonymous, June 10, 2013 12:36 AM

As always, I appreciate the close captioning. Re: Choosing to work with a professional of the same gender. For the past several months I have been having dental work done by an oral surgeon of the opposite gender. There is no door in the exam room, his female assistant is always present, and the other members of his female staff are always within earshot. Thank g-d my teeth and gums are in MUCH better shape than they have been in a long time. The point I'm trying to make, is that you cannot always choose to work with a professional of the same gender. However, you can put safeguards in place so that you are not in an awkward situation.

(1) Alan S., June 9, 2013 8:13 PM

Not only a controversial suggestionl, but really an immediate non-starter.

I do not agree with Rebbitzen Palatnik, even one scintilla. Yes, of course, infidelity is horrible. But with the economy the way it is, for almost any worker, especially a professional that has massive school and business loans, seeing only 50% of the available population is a death wish. A professional person -- almost any service provider -- might as well give up their license or position, default on their loans, or close a business up, if they could only see half of their potential population.

Anonymous, June 10, 2013 5:44 PM

Derech HaShem

What Lori is talking about is the Ratzon Hashem, the will of the A-lmighty. When one does G-d's will, he need not worry about anything. Hashem will take care of him.

Anonymous, June 11, 2013 10:20 PM

If one is doing G-d's will, he would not be concerned with infidelity.

A B, June 11, 2013 3:47 AM

really an immediate starter

The rebetzin was directing her comments to clients, not clinicians. As the professional offering services, you have the power to put safeguards in place, such as an open door or an assistant nearby. Creating a Fidelity plan is arguably at least as important as creating your financial plan.

anonymous, June 12, 2013 11:47 PM

It is apparent that the Rebbitzen was directing her comments to "clients" and not professionals. A "fidelity" plan is indeed important for all married people. Her solution is inequitable for the vast majority of professionals. As two other comments said, one should strive to go to the best care giver possible.

 

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