The Battle of the Bris

Home
» Blogs

Give Tzedakah! Help Aish.com create inspiring
articles, videos and blogs featuring timeless Jewish wisdom.

Published: August 25, 2007

Visitor Comments: 20

(20) Channa, November 28, 2007 2:14 PM

If the mother is not the custodial parent then it makes one wonder whether this discussion is actually about the child's needs and desires or does this have more to do with the unfinished business of these parents? The mother's comments notwithstanding, there is likely a social-worker and/ or a rabbi involved. Is he/she evolved and sensitive to the child's needs and perspectives? If so, why is the court giving the mother's concerns weight? AS for the child's opinion,no doubt that the child is frightened by the procedure, but does that mean that all bets are off? Is he intelligent enough to weigh the pros and cons of circumscion? Religious committments aside, are we talking about an actual physical operation or are we talking about the ritual ( such as piercing the skin with a pin prick) which can result in mostly a ceremonial procedure? For a valid opinion the child's Jewish upbringing has to come into play, so do the supports that do or do exist to either reinforce or shun the decision. Does he go to shul, is a Bar Mitzvah on the horizon? Does the child have Jewish social contact. Finally can this be a defiant act of aggression ( and not religious committment ) on the father's part? To sum up, we the reader's have not been armed with enough information to form an informed opinion; hopefully the court will do a better job.

(19) Abraham Golos, September 2, 2007 10:21 AM

Oregon case as basis for discussion

I am the lay "spiritual leader" of a 100 member "traditional" leaning congregation in upstate New York. I saw an article about this in the Forward, decided it's worth discussing, and have announce it as the topic for our first havdalah discussion which will also be Selichot.
I was gratified to see that you also found it interesting. (I happen to be an attorney also, so I have a double perspective, although you obviously do also). I plan to take the opportunity to first discuss circumcision historically, biblically, and medically, before raising the Oregon case. Then, as the discussion proceeds, I intend to change the facts: What if the boy were only 3? What if both parents were Christian but the boy, @ 12, wanted to be circumcized? What if the parents were both Jewish but, because of the unavailable of Mohel, a mixup of babies at the hospital, a tyrannical anti-semitic government, a kidnapping, their son didn't have a Brit Me'lah and now, at age 12, he is recovered and the parents want to have the Brit--and the boy doesn't!!?? I hope the anticipated group of 30 will find it as interesting as I have. Thank you for your presentation.

(18) Anonymous, September 2, 2007 1:14 AM

Circumsion

It it a requirement that to be a Jew, one MUST have circumsion? I belong to a Jewish Senior Center and met many Jews who were allowed to leave the USSR who were raised in the Stalin era where practice of one's religeon was forbidden..As many are in thier senior years, many stated that they don't want to go thru this pain, and are foregoing it... I was taught as a youth that this is a covenant with G-D made with our Father Abraham.. I would appreciate your response to this query!

(17) Anonymous, September 1, 2007 9:16 PM

US vs. Jewish Law

The fact that the father has total custody is a matter of secular law, not religious. Therefore, secular law should govern in this instance. If the child were 12, had no Jewish parents and wanted to be circumcised, the courts would not allow him to make a decision like this until he was close to 18. I think the decision should be put off until the child reaches the age of majority in the civil courts.

(16) Chaim Lobel, August 30, 2007 9:40 AM

It is the Father's decision now

The father should ask Mesha then decide. At 13 Mesha has the right to reject and live his life as he pleases.

(15) Stacey, August 29, 2007 8:17 AM

Misha's Choice

I'm with Robert, The procedure and the mening should be explained to the child so he can make his own decision. Why should this 12 year-old boy have surgery just because, he father converted all the sudden. Its not like the boy is an infant, which in that case, a bris would be a little easier to swallow.

(14) Zahava, August 29, 2007 6:22 AM

Not so complicated

The boy was not born Jewish. His mother is not Jewish. Only his father converted. The only person in this "family", if the conversion was done by an orthodox rabbi and bet din, is halachically Jewish. The boy is not required by halacha to be circumcised. When the boy becomes 18, then he can decide if he wants to convert to Judaism. Brit Mila is a commandment from HaShem to the Jewish nation, and one of the many things that sets us apart from the goyim. A bet din does not have the right to decide on this matter as the child was not born Jewish. Non-Jewish parents can either choose ot not choose to circumcise their sons. It's not required of them. But it is required of the Jewish people.

(13) Moshe, August 28, 2007 4:52 PM

Complicated

Fundamentally, it is Misha's choice but from a medical ethical and legal perspective, can a minor's choice compel a legal parent/guardian (certainly not the mother in this case) to comply? What if Misha wants aesthetic plastic surgery or growth hormone? If Misha wants a Bris and the father, in this case, agrees - no problem. A Beis Din should rule on the age at which Misha can make his decision.

(12) Robert, August 28, 2007 2:02 PM

Decision

Explain to the child what circumcision
stands for and what it physically entails to the child.

Then ultimately it is up to the child to decide for himself.

A father or mother cannot tell a 12 year old boy what to do with his penis.

(11) L, August 28, 2007 1:57 PM

Judaism - A religion of compassion

Above all, Judaism has been a religion of compassion. The Bris is the one area we need to rethink. Yes, it was an improvement over the practice of child sacrifice in the area, but today we think about things like the rights of a person to have a say over his or her body. An eight day old infant cannot say what they want but a 12 year old can. Does the boy even WANT to become a Jew? And, a bris does not make anyone a Jew! In this case, a conversion process makes him a Jew.
I am a Jew, I gave birth to a son and did not have a bris or medical circumcision. My son is a 7 year old wonderful mench! I have told him if he wants to have a bris when he is older he can. This summer he thanked me for not cutting off his foreskin, he likes it. How can we perform a legal assault on our children? This is the boy's choice, and if there is doubt then wait. Once it is gone, it can't be put back.

(10) Gregg, August 28, 2007 1:19 PM

Father is right.

This is also a medical question as well as a religious one. The boy being circumcised will be less likely to cause his future wife to develop cervical cancer. I was not born Jewish but was circumcised anyway and I am glad as I have converted.

(9) David Tzvi-Hersh, August 28, 2007 11:06 AM

Difficult Decision

This is a case with multiple layers. It is about custodial rights, which is a civil matter. It is also about religious customs, which is governed by religious customs as defined by the particular religious community in question. And last, it is about the right of a person to choose elective procedures on their own body.

This case started a long time ago, when the young man was clearly not in a position to make this decision. But, through protracted legal manoevering, he has come to the point where he should be able to influence the court.

In many states, children over a certain age have the right to tell the court who they wish to live with in divorce cases. The assumption being that at some age, they should be able to make that decision. I believe that, at 12 years of age, Misha is probably able to tell the court how he feels and what he would like to do. Then, it is up to the court to make the final decision. But in the end, it is really a civil matter, not a religious one.

(8) Allen Daniels, August 28, 2007 9:21 AM

Individual's Rights

I feel that Misha should have the final say as to what religion he wants to follow, if any at all, and if he wants to be circumcised. Parents, custodial or not, should not make this kind of decision for a 12 year old.

(7) Dvirah, August 27, 2007 10:55 AM

This Decision is Misha's Alone!

This is a life-decision: Misha's life. Therefore, I say neither his father nor his mother should decide for him. Yes, the decision can be delayed until he is 13. But it should be his decision alone.

(6) A, August 27, 2007 8:03 AM

What does the Beit Din say?

as for what mother Should do or not, see Lori's current video "is it possible"; as for Jews just marrying Jews: could-have, would-have & should-have Didn't! G-d allows converts.
did anyone consult the beit din?
do we not find it abhorrent when other faiths 'steal' our kids and convert when too young to know better and easy to influence?
Micha should wait until he is at least 13 and then consult with the beit din! and take it from there. One of our greatest gifts is free will, we'll want Micha to want to be Jewish so he's not just another feather in our cap.

(5) Rosen, August 26, 2007 10:34 PM

no reason for conversion in Jewish marriages

The bottom line may be about the importance of marrying Jewish - as opposed to intermarrying and then seeking conversion. Marriages ought to be kept simple within the same faith. Jews must marry Jews, and non-Jews must marry other non-Jews. For a Jew and a non-Jew to fall in love with each other will just complicate things in debating whether to convert to Judaism, and furthermore confuse the offspring, because these children will lack a definite Jewish identity. For as long as the Jews have been around, many of us have not given in to the pressures of assimilation to another faith or intermarriage. All in all, keep marriage simple by marrying Jewish, because children must obtain a decent Jewish identity for the future generations.

(4) Zissi, August 26, 2007 6:41 PM

He has to want to convert

Misha has to WANT to convert when he is 13 years old. This is his decision and his alone.

(3) Gayle, August 26, 2007 10:55 AM

I agree with Shlomo!

Point well said, bravo Shlomo! The mother gave birth to this boy and perhaps lost custodial custody because of financial reasons, she still loves her son and if her son doesn't want this or doesn't understand what he is getting into someone should teach him and let him make his own decision, the father has no right to force this on him!

(2) Joey, August 26, 2007 10:21 AM

A random comment, not really specific to this case: doesn't it seem like usually, it's the mother who's against the circumcision? Ironic, eh? :-)

God bless.

(1) Shlomo, August 26, 2007 4:23 AM

How about this...

Jewish Law requires that the convert is not forced or manipulated into conversion. We need to make sure that this 12-year old boy isn't converting because he feels that his father wants him to. If we can't know for sure, maybe his conversion should be delayed for a few years.

See All Comments

stub

About the Author

Rabbi Yaakov Salomon

More by this Author >

Rabbi Yaakov Salomon, C.S.W. is a noted psychotherapist, in private practice in Brooklyn, N.Y. for over 25 years. He is a Senior Lecturer and the Creative Director of Aish Hatorah's Discovery Productions. He is also an editor and author for the Artscroll Publishing Series and a member of the Kollel of Yeshiva Torah Vodaath.

Rabbi Salomon is co-author, with Rabbi Noah Weinberg, of the best selling book "What the Angel Taught You; Seven Keys to Life Fulfillment," (Mesorah), and is also the co-producer of the highly-acclaimed film, "Inspired."

Click here to order Yaakov Salomon's new book, Salomon Says: 50 Stirring and Stimulating Stories.

In these marvelous stories -- brimming with wit, understanding, a touch of irony and a large helping of authentic Torah perspective -- we will walk with a renowned and experienced psychotherapist and popular author through the pathways of contemporary life: its crowded sidewalks, its pedestrian malls, and the occasional dead end street. This is a walk through our lives that will be fun, entertaining -- and eye-opening. In our full -- sometimes overfull -- and complex lives, Yaakov Salomon is a welcome and much-needed voice of sanity and reason.

His speaking, writing and musical talents have delighted audiences from Harvard to Broadway and everything in between. Rabbi Salomon shares his life with his wife, Temmy, and their unpredictable family.

The Battle of the Bris

When parents disagree about circumcision.

Visitor Comments: 20

Submit Your Comment:

About the Author

Related Articles:

LANGUAGES:

AFFILIATES:

SECTIONS:

EMAIL LISTS:

ABOUT:

FOLLOW US: