Imposing Shariah Law in London

Shariah law is great if you are of the Muslim faith and enforces everything that you believe in, however if you do not believe in the Muslim faith it becomes a nightmare. People do not want someone or a group of people governing daily lives like cover your hair or you might be harrased, or don't drink that wine or you will be beaten, or how about don't mind the guy killing his sister because he is doing it to save his families honor....If you believe that to be G-d's law you can move somewhere where everyone believes the same and stop trying to change everyone else's world. I don't have anything against you, but Shariah law is unexeptable. It is not a belief anymore, it becomes a political movement that needs to be stopped in the Western world.

This article could be a lot more balanced and informative if it included, for example, the following points:- Waltham Forest Council has removed the posters and is currently reviewing CCTV footage to identify those responsible for displaying the posters. The news comes as a Bill in the House of Lords seeks to stop Sharia law taking root as a parallel legal system. The Arbitration and Mediation Services (Equality) Bill, introduced by Baroness Cox, would make it a crime for Sharia courts to falsely claim legal jurisdiction. Local residents have distanced themselves from the calls for Sharia law in Waltham Forest. Abdul Rehman, a 56-year-old Muslim originally from Pakistan, said: “They should go to a Muslim country if they want to live under those laws. It has no place in Britain.” Redzz, a 24-year-old musician, said: “It’s a tiny minority of Muslims who want laws like this. People are entitled to their own views but shouldn’t try to tell other people how to live.” And 29-year-old insurance worker Sal said: “This is Britain and everyone should live by Britain’s laws.”

I suppose they could come here and cause so much trouble that some communities might welcome it, as did some Brits. But do you really think our law enforcement agencies would allow more gangs? Especially those that would become violent trying to impose their "law", over our freedoms for which we fought so hard? I am just an average American, I have no voice and my vote doesn't ever matter, so what defense would my family have. If I use a weapon to defend my disabled children, it is not self defense and is illegal. I would go to jail. I suppose that in light of that similarity, some might give in to gangs to receive protection. Are the muslim (not deserving of capitalization), extremists that much more different or more powerful than any other gang? How can it be prevented? Maybe by monitoring entry into all of our borders. That'll never happen, our politicians are too cowardly. I think we could start by never allowing full burka clothing, and by insisting that all ID photo's be taken without any head wear at all. Any would be terrorist can hide under a burka along with weaponry. Not that anyone would ever read this opinion, because as an average, poor, American; I still have no voice. However, I do have the freedom to discuss it openly, anywhere in my country, the United States of America. Though we are united and a melting pot of varied races and cultures, we should still find a way to disallow anyone from trying to impose their violent actions upon our citizens, an no one should ever be allowed to take our freedom of speech. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to tend to my barbecue... roasted quran (also not worthy of capitalization.

I have many muslims friends who pray 5 tmes a day. They follow Ramadan. They read the Quran daily. They speak of how great Allah is. AND they do smoke. AND they do drink alcohol. AND they do blast music. AND they do attend concerts. Need I say more????

I admit it. I don't think the worst will happen, but that is only because the mind boggles at the thought but please read the article Bikinis bug Brotherhood; cover-up of monuments demanded By DAVID E. MILLER | THE MEDIA LINE Published: Aug 25, 2011 23:03 Updated: Aug 25, 2011 23:03 http://arabnews.com/middleeast/article493760.ece?service=print If one reads the whole article, you'll see that it gets worse than bans on bikinis and alcohol, and separate beaches for men and women. Regarding Egypt: Tourism is down. “But bathing suits are not the only worry of Egypt’s conservatives. Abd Al-Munim A-Shahhat, a spokesman for the Salafi group Dawa, has said that Egypt’s world-renowned pharaonic archaeology — its pyramids, Sphinx and other monuments covered with un-Islamic imagery — should also be hidden from the public eye. “The pharaonic culture is a rotten culture,” A-Shahhat told Asharq Al-Awsat, saying the faces of ancient statues “should be covered with wax, since they are religiously forbidden.” He likened the Egyptian relics to the idols, which circled the walls of Makkah in pre-Islamic times. The challenges to the tourism industry in post-revolutionary Egypt have led to the establishment of the Coalition to Support Tourism, whose members also met with Al-Katatny.”

4. Sharia is theocratic. Our society is not a theocracy. Sharia applies to non-Muslims. The Beit Din does not. Our law differentiates between civil law and criminal law. Sharia aims for world domination. Judaism envisioned a world of different nations as evidenced by its prayers for the nations of the world around Sukkot. Its 7 Noahide Commandments set a minimum standard for a human being who is not a Jew such as setting up a judicial system, not murdering, and not eating an animal while it is still alive. Just as Jews in San Francisco are extending kashrut to include how an animal is raised, if I was expanding upon the laws on not eating an animal until it is killed, I would add to not cook the animal while still alive as was done in the Middle Ages by gentiles, and I’ll also add, to not start preparing the animal to be eaten as in adding to, preparing the recipe before its death as some people do for liver recipes (France), and for Mandarin duck recipes(China); and I would also prohibit toying with the animal before killing it(Spain), and considering that this is for non-Jews that would also prohibit certain ways of preparing lobster, crab and crayfish, and also adding live worms to Tequila (Mexico), and also certain college fraternity stunts like swallowing live goldfish. I know my brother would add a prohibition on certain fish depending on where they are swimming such as in water that receives fresh sewage. Therefore the serial murderer in Britain who is being given a PHD in homicide studies at British government expense fails the Noahide commandments on more than one basis. See the article Murder Most Academic on line, about Stephen Griffiths, the convicted killer known as the Cross-bow Cannibal, by Theodore Dalrymple who wrote the book, among others, The Vichy Syndrome: Why European intellectuals Surrender to Barbarism. http://www.city-journal.org/2011/21_2_otbie-homicide-studies.html

3. Here is a website on the Toronto Sharia Conference which was anti-Sharia, in Canada, Holland and elsewhere. “Over 400 People attend Toronto Sharia conference despite three changes of venue, no proper ticket selling process and heavy security.- Featuring Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Irshad Manji, and Homa Arjomand” “Ayaan explained that in the Netherlands, her government plans to specifically remove family legal matters from the Dutch Arbitration Act.” http://www.nosharia.com/Over%20400%20People%20attend%20Toronto%20Sharia%20conference%20despite%20three%20changes%20of%20venue.htm Here is the website of the Muslim Canadian Congress giving views of moderate Muslims which includes, objecting to Sharia in Canada, the burqua, terrorism, killing of Muslims by Muslims, fatwas, the building of the Ground Zero Mosque, and against the introduction of Sharia banking to Canada and, it can be pointed out, that Kagan worked on introducing Sharia financing into the US at Harvard University before being appointed by Pres Obama to the USSC. http://www.muslimcanadiancongress.org/ Sharia believes Mohammed was infallible and included everything that he said and did back around the time of 600 when he lived in the Arabian Peninsula and he was the one who thought up the dhimma tax. Islam has not gone through a reformation. Radical Islam interprets Islam one way and moderate Muslims interpret Islam another way. Sharia law differs from country to country. There is nothing wrong with being concerned about a real problem. Hysteria is over non-existent problems. Bibi said that he learned from a Holocaust Survivor "When someone says he is going to exterminate you, believe him." Jews say “Never again.” Alfred E Neuman says “What me worry.” (Mad Magazine) Remind you of anyone? Someone who is not worried about civilization and children and grandchildren has less to worry about than others who do.

The Times in England wrote “In 2001 the European Court of Human Rights stated that Sharia clearly diverged from the human rights values enshrined in the European Convention. In 2005 concerns about human rights and women's rights led to a storm of protest in Canada, when the attorney-general of Ontario proposed to adopt Sharia-based law to settle Muslim family disputes over divorce and child custody. “ http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article3330341.ece “In May 2005, the Quebec National Assembly unanimously supported a motion to block the use of Sharia law in Quebec courts. “The Boyd proposal (a woman attorney general of Ontario made the proposal) ran into opposition from women's groups, legal organizations and the Muslim Canadian Congress, which all warned that the 1,400-year-old Sharia law does not view women as equal to men. The National Association of Women and the Law, the Canadian Council of Muslim Women, and the National Organization of Immigrant and Visible Minority Women of Canada argued that under Sharia law, men and women are not treated equally. They argued that women fare far worse in divorce, child custody and inheritance matters under Sharia law.” http://www.canadianlawsite.ca/sharia-law-canada.htm Raheel Raza also on Youtube elsewhere said "... Mayor Bloomberg and bleeding heart white liberals like him don't understand the battle we moderate Muslims are faced with in terms of confronting radical Islam and Islamization, and political Islam in North America, which has only grown since 9-11 because of political correctness, and people, because of their politically vested agendas, not speaking out against issues.."

1. Here are specific links: Watch speech by Raheel Raza and the introductory statements by others on Youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5n09mVc5-8 Raheel Raza a moderate Muslim woman said Opposed to the liberal spiritual message of Islam is this “political manifestation of Islam which we call Islamism or radical Islam which is an armed political ideology similar to fascism and engaged in a worldwide effort to subvert democracies and to expand the space for the implementation of its ideology, the Shariah. Radical Islam derives from Islam but it is anti- modern, triumphalistic, misanthropic, misogynist anti-Christian, anti-Semitic, totalistic, and aggressive. In the past 15 years we have seen the rise of this Saudi funded global threat which aims to slowly entrench itself into the Canadian system through its institutions…. This is the reality… Its largest victims are Muslims.” She gave a speech against organized Islamic prayers in the Toronto public school which is what Mark Steyn wrote about in his article at SteynOnline, HOW UNCLEAN WAS MY VALLEY and photo. Christian and Jewish prayer such as the Lord’s Prayer was specifically banned in those schools. http://www.steynonline.com/content/view/4259/28/ On Sharia law in Canada: “The Jewish community and the Catholic community did not want Muslims introducing Sharia into Canada, they accepted the decision to ban all religious arbitration in Ontario, including their own respective tribunals.” .. http://www.canadianlawsite.ca/sharia-law-canada.htm “The fact that Sharia law conflicts with many of the precepts of the Human Rights Act of 1998 makes it incompatible with Canadian law, and it was these fears that "prompted its ousting from the Canadian system." “ http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/08/sharia_law_in_canada_and_brita.html

Openly violating and/or preparing to violate the law of the land seems to me to be treason - the proponents and activists of this forced implementation of Sharia law in opposition to British Law should be met with incarceration and confiscation of all of their assets -

Shalom; I live in Vancouver,Canada,where there is a steady stream of immigrating, Muslims,into the country!! Many Mosks are appearing,thoughout the Metropolitan area of Vancouver! The Indo-Canadian People, have deep ties/roots to Vancouver and in many parts of my Province! For the most part, the Sikhs take up a fairly large portion,of the Indo-Canadian Community! They are a wonderfull People,who are in every walk of Canadian Life, ie: Police,Politicians,Doctors,Business People,Farmers, School Teachers,etc.,hard working,strong Family Values,Good Citizens, (like the Chinese Canadians), it's the Muslim Indians, along with a large group of Punjabi Muslims,that are suspect?? Case in point, through Muslim contacts,We are told the, Desire/implementation and Enforcement of Sharia Law,is imminent,in communities,(un-named) in Metro Vancouver, and the rest of British Columbia,not to mention the rest of Canada. There is a "lesson", to be learned here, from our British Cousins! (they are fighting Sharia Law,as I type). Fight a Ristrictive,Draconian,Dictatorial, Religeous Law,with a very Strong, Fair,Democratic Law that has TEETH!! If that Fails?......a Fatwah?....N.Fisher, Vancouver,Canada.

The clip, showing them as good-doers, cleaning up society, but watch out for them that speak peace, but doesn't bring peace. Prepare for the worst, to make sure it doesn't happen. In countries that are not Islamic, we have them outnumbered. But their influences, adultery is so common in marriage, smoking has been banned from public places and taxed unreasonably. Circumcision being debated to becoming illegal. A break down in our family values. Love has grown cold. Then they come with Sharia Law to look like a savior to what they had created. Tear down first, then build up another. Their influence has filtered in, unaware places in our society. Thirty years ago, religion was esteemed in our country, that being Judaism and Christianity. Now, if you use the word faith, your thought of as a crazy person. God was part of our Nation, now to believe in God, it's intolerable, fantasy. Judaism and Christianity has been here for years, what is new in this country, that has been growing is mosques. This country is getting to resemble communism little by little. Who has their head in the sand? Prayer, a tradition of our Nation, has became thought of as talking to a tooth fairy. When the next terrorist attack comes, and we all know it will come again someday, what watered down excuses will some make then, that Obama planned it, he knew about it and let it happened? When the government can't afford to support the poor anymore, will you run to Sharia Law for help? For the free life, ha ha what freedom. We have them outnumbered, except how many has been influenced by them? Is this fear or an open eye to see what is around us, the way people talk, how they sound like them, in the marketplaces, on the streets, and in open forums as the Net. It is our rights, we need to speak up for, to remain a free independent country, with our own laws and customs of doing things. The country has limits that's reasonable, however, people are free to choose.

So Muslims are a secret organized society pulling the strings in the shadows to destroy all values and to be blamed for everything from the breakdown of family values to bad breath. The spectre of communism is raised too. This could have been in Das Sturmer, if one changed out Jew for Muslim. Why are you so blind to that and how does Aish print this without realizing the sick forces they are dealing with. The way to fight monsters is not to become one. Why can you not see how sick this is and how the "cure" is so very much worse than the "disease?" What is wrong with you people?

This report is hysterical, racist nonsense and deserves no place on this website. Quite clearly from the video the residents of these London boroughs were not living in shariah controlled zone, nor felt any threat of this about to happen. If I put up a few "Planet of the Apes" posters, would that mean we are now governed by apes? Get real!

oh no..no secret society them..The Islamics have never made any secret of thier desire to rule the world and put us all under Sharia Law..it is in thier creed and thier Q'ran..the desire goes all the way back to thier founder who's implamintation of his new religion was a bloody one..it's what his followers have always been fighting for..The Jews however have never tried to rule the world nor have they ever tried to force anyone to become one..as far as sick forces go..you need to read the Q'ran and the hadeeth..you need to read their own most recent news articles about what thier current respected amans, Umas or whatever they're called..say about certain subjects..they believe a girl is old enough to marry as soon as she starts her monthly cycle no matter young that girl is, they also believe a girl in the cradle can be married off ..Mohammad himself married a six year old and masterbated her until she was nine years old at which time he took her home w/him to bed her and make her his wife..in other words.. Sharia Law..does not look down on pedifilia..why would it?.. when it's own founder was a pedifile?..so many things I could say here that I won't..but one cannot compare the persecution of the Jewish People to the fight against Islam..they are definantly not the same thing...

The complaint about this histrionic, fear mongering, far right article is that it openly calls for laws which are unconstitutional in the US (and it is an American article). You can not ban an entire religious code without that destroying religious freedom. My complaint is about the people (and this article) calling for laws like the soon to be struck down Oklahoma law. Sharia courts in the US or Britain would and can only apply to civil cases and can not violate the laws of America or Britian themselves. All the harsh criminal punishments in Sharia would be illegal already. All of the Sharia horror stories that everyone is going on about would all fall under criminal acts. Therefore your arguments are just barking up the wrong tree. IF Muslims want to have civil disputes settled by their law - the same way Jews in Beit Dins do, then there is nothing legally that can stop them from using a Sharia court as a binding arbitration. Unless of course, people who hate Muslims decide that the entire religion is evil, and that no practitioners of it deserve the same rights as any other American. The mouth breathers here, who are so consumed by their own fear and hatred seem to think nothing of freedoms, even their own. By calling for such bans, none of you are morally better than Choudary - however, I would bet he understands law better.

racism, murder, suicide, theft, mutilation, destruction - the things we all associate with islam, do not sound very religious, do they? Yet islam is one of the big three religions. How can this be? The answer is that islam is not a religion. islam has the same aims the nazis had - to take over the world. whereas the nazi's desire was to eliminate awareness of G*d, islam's is to reduce it to the fiction of a single man, mohamed, may his name be blotted out from memory. this way, they don't have to deal with those pesky things that brought the nazi's down: individuality, morals, education and freedom.

All of the things to which you object - racism, murder, suicide, theft, mutilation, destruction - are prohibited by the very religion, Islam, which you condemn. I suggest you pick up a Qur'an and read it.

Are you mad? Islam not a religion? This is the single most unhinged bit of ranting I have ever seen on this site. Reflect on this. You seem to hate Nazis (as well you should). Do not become one yourself.

i won't become such. worry about the terrorists, they already have!

U do not address pts. U repeat urself. The Beit Din in Ontario was done away with and Sharia was banned, therefore all are equal under the law of Canada. U do not get the concept of "supremacy". Defn: "a person who believes in or advocates the supremacy of a particular group". Since u cannot absorb the concept of supremacy when applied to Radical Muslims, think of it as it applied to Nazis and how it applies to white supremacists. Now that u have the picture, try to absorb the pt that Radical Islam and the spread of Sharia is supremacist.Therefore ur pts that parts of Sharia are incompatible with US laws and constitution while they may be true this year will be irrelevant in the future. Try repeating the word supremacy to urself, until it sinks in. Kagan is already on the USSC. All Pres Obama has to do is to appoint another judge who thinks the way she does and appealing to the USSC will not make any diff in terms of upholding traditional concepts. I think u think that the only people capable of being supremacists are white blond, blue eyed w square jaws and thin and u cannot envision anything else. Hollywood is to blame because every movie they make about evil has been stuck in the 1940s vein w a white blond blue-eyed villains often w a somewhat German sounding accent in English because they are C-O-W-A-R-D-S. They feel safer staying stuck in 1940. How about addressing the fact of wives who are imported from the old country who do not speak English and do not understand their rights and do not know about America because they are not allowed to leave the house where they live, then raise the words "consent between the parties for arbitration" again, as if arbitration is always between equal partners? U repeat words like a mantra until ur brain goes to sleep "Beit Din, Beit Din, Beit Din; consent between parties arbitration, consent between parties arbitration. U are like a broken record. Now reread this, out loud. Read, watch links. Mod Muslims want Sharia banned.

The *only* thing an American anti Sharia law could affect is a binding civil arbitration. The harsh penalties of Sharia are already illegal in America and always will be, unless Muslims somehow manage to amend our constitution. This is a non-starter. All of your hysteria about what goes on in places like Saudi Arabia do not apply. Why can you not understand that? I would hypothesise that is because you are so wrapped up in fear hatred and ignorance, like any other good bigot that it is impossible for you to think. It would also be a good thing for you to not lie and presume to speak for the moderate Muslim community. Sahria means law - quite literally. It is in every way to them what the word halacha means to us. Of course, since a Beit Din means little to you, I doubt how much one of us you are. Just as halachic opinion is not uniform on all issues, the same with Sharia. While everyone with sense agrees that the Sharia of the Islamist is brutal, horrid and barbaric, it is the greatest disservice to educated Western Muslims who work hard and hurt no-one to say the things you are saying. Finally, It is "you" not U. From your inability to write like someone past the 3rd grade, it is of little surprise that your reading comprehension is of that level as well.

We are limited to 2000 characters including spaces, and symbols, like quotation marks,or brackets, count as 5 each. Using u instead of you means I have saved 2 characters every time I use it. Maybe you have never noticed it because maybe your ideas never amounted to 2000 characters. But thank you for the spelling lesson. I have provided above the specific links to Youtube where even you can watch self-identified moderate Muslim women of the Canadian Muslim Congress speak. Do yourself a favor and watch before calling everyone a bigot. If you claim to respect the Beit Din so much, maybe you should respect the decision of the rabbis of the Beit Din who made the decision to take family arbitration out of the Beit Din in their own jurisdiction which meant a decision to cut back on their power as a sacrifice for the greater good. Sounds pretty admirable to me. I am sure that after a secular divorce, they are willing to give a get, a Jewish divorce, so I am not sure why you are so frightened by the concept of a more limited Beit Din affecting the social fabric of Jewish life. Like I said Canada is more Left than the US. The attorney general of Ontario backed down from her plans after the protests of moderate Muslims and women's groups. You are so secure in your belief in lawyers saving the day. You seem unaware that lawyers in Germany did not stand up for German laws. Some of them were prosecuted at the Nuremberg Trials. Burt Lancaster played the role of Ernst Janning a prosecuted judge in the movie Judgement at Nuremburg. All it took was for the Nazis to appoint judges who saw things their way. We already have judges who believe in redefining words any way they like to get away from what words say. We have a president who picks and chooses what laws to uphold and what laws to not uphold. Holland is also dropping family arbitration in religious courts. Holland is also more left than the US. Could it be that s.o. somewhere knows more than u Joe? 2000 used up here

Joe, Do you want the ultra orthodox in Jerusalem making the rules in the USA that you and everyone else would have to follow? If the answer is no, now you know how a moderate Muslim in N America feels. Sharia is is worse than the ultra orthodox in Jerusalem with unlimited power because they have different rules that they play by. The expansion of Islam was not voluntary, it was by the sword, right back to Mohammed. You are not being "compassionate". You are helping the enemies of the moderate Muslim. Therefore you are the enemy of the moderate Muslim, the moderate Muslim woman.You are being spineless. You are appeasing. You come across as crouching in fear in a fetal position. Canada is to the left of the USA.If they can ban Sharia so can we.

Joe, admit it: you know absolutely nothing about sharia law. If you had the slightest clue about it, you'd realize that it cannot be allowed to replace civil law any more than islam (which is only an ancient crime-syndicate) should be allowed into our societies at all (since we have laws against crime-syndicates, no matter how ancient and well-established they might be). Since sharia comes directly from the Qur'an, it is full of double standards and false categories, it refutes the simple notion of equality for all citizens: moslems have not only the right, but the actual duty to allah, to attack all non-moslems to convert, enslave, or kill them (and this is non-defensive, as clearly stated in their sharia law manuals themselves). These manuals exist and can easily be found on the internet, so I recommend you peruse it to find a copy of the English translation of (just for starters) The Hedaya (which covers two of the four islamic legal schools of thought, that of Haneefa and Shafei) or the Risala, or maybe go download yourself a copy of the several hundred years old "Reliance of the Traveller," bearing in mind that in these societies of primitive religious head-hunters, nothing has ever actually changed over the centuries... because the Qur'an itself clearly says that it is perfect, and so anyone trying to change, reform, or update it must be killed by the other moslems. Here's a quick summary of islam: Everything islam holds to be "holy" is already defined as a crime: the "holy" lying to everyone (fraud) the "holy" robberies, tortures, and slavery (kidnappings) of all non-muslims, the "holy" rapes (of wives, slaves, and children) and of course the "holy" human sacrifices to allah (murders of all non-submissive non-muslims)! So NO they don't have a right to "practice" their 'religion' nor to "teach" it to (abuse) their own children, either! The only "religious" part in islam, is where they say: "God told us to commit these crimes!" (Capisce?)! ;-)

Reading the responses here, i can understand why the muslims will succeed with their plans....

There needs to be a nude march down these streets (official of course with all the paper work filled out and approved) with loud music (i don't know the drinking in public spaces law so i wont comment on that) or just have the police do their jobs and arrest those that are harassing others....

Or, ignore them.

I say: "Thank YOU, Aish for this article!" It is ridiculous even to think that Judaism and Jews have something in common with these people. Judaism doesn't want to impose its rules on others. And the big difference between our values and theirs, is that Jews want a person himself to overcome his weakness like watching porn f.e. or dressing zinius. We don't force, especially by punishments someone to do so, and we deffinitely don't expect that from non-jews. Even if secular society allows gay marriages, this is their democratic choice. Israel doesn't kill gays as arabs do, but gives them the same rights. Who we are to judge someone, this is what the democracy is about. And RADICAL ISLAM is the 21st century ENEMY of the world who starts with that to judge other people and make their own punishments (I don't include of course the well known 7 laws of Noah like killing, abusing, stealing etc.). This is something what only GOD can do and human beings should not mess in! How are they believing in God then?! As it was said, this is not a religious organisation but political which makes it dangerous. Please don't say that these people are any close to Torah values!

1 Ruth, I disagree with your statement that people can't judge. You remind me of Germany which having decided that it wasn’t such a good idea to have backed Hitler decided to go peacenik on us. No. The answer is to develop discretion and make right choices. Jackie Mason makes fun of how much we judge continuously cold, hot, too cold, too hot, too sweet, too salty, too sour.. Judaism believes that people have to create a legal system and has to educate its young for people to live in a society. (Ex. 18:13-26; Deut 33:4; the Shema; the bar mitzvah. Judaism teaches people to judge all the time and the study of the law, and the practice of kashrut is to give one practice in weighing and measuring in your mind, and discerning kosher from non-kosher (as well as self-discipline), night from day, light from dark, a holy day from a non holy day, common sense from no sense, and right from wrong, etc Judaism says “Do not oppress a stranger; you know the feelings of a stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.” Ex 23: 9 If you can’t figure it out for yourself, you can ask the opinion of a rabbi. Some people have taken legal reasoning to such an extreme that they can and do argue anything as if they are serious. That too is wrong. We have mostly reasonable laws and our law says to not take the law into our own hands since we have turned it over to the police and the courts. Our laws say people are equal whether male or female, gays or straight, Muslim or non-Muslim. Our law differentiates civil from criminal law acts. Our tax code does not require more payment from a person for not being a non-Muslim. None of this is true of Sharia. Our law says to not murder people. We do not honor honor killings. We have trial by jury of our peers if we so choose and legal representation. It is a society where Jews and Christians and Hindus and Muslims with different practices can live and practice their religion, and atheists, agnostics too.

2. We Amers believe that the legal system we have is superior to Sharia because it values individl rights and took 100s of years to evolve and has a presumpt. of innocence for each 1 not just Muslims and we don't permanently disable people including children for crimes such as cutting off their hands, feet or maiming them for life, and we don't torture in the real meaning of the word, and we do not give lashes, we do not require 4 witnesses for a woman to claim rape, we do not give 100 lashes to a woman victim who was raped because we assume that she wanted it, we do not allow men to beat their wives, we do not allow men to murder their wives sisters daughters because their ego was bruised by a rumor and they had a hysterical reaction, and we do not tell young men that they can kill people of other religions and that they will be rewarded in heaven with 72 virgins, and we don’t allow prison guards to marry and then rape a female prisoner prior to her execution so that she cannot be pure when she dies. We do not stone people to death purposefully with small stones so it will take some time. Our law is not a theocracy. Our law does not have the death penalty for conversion. Our law does not provide the death penalty for non-Muslims for not coming out to prayer after 3 calls to prayer, like Khaybar. Our society does not segregate based upon menstruation. Our society does not allow for different doors for Muslims and for non-Muslims and for males and for females. Our society does not presently allow for rules on the height of a building based upon whether one is Muslim or non-Muslim, nor for walking in a street where one has to walk in the gutter so as to be shorter in stature, nor segregation by religion in a public bath. We are supposed to have freedom of the press and of speech so that when a story is misused, misstated, to raise funds, to unite one group against another, and whip up the pop, then in the west, ideally, the press can correct the misimpression.

3. We have freedom of speech and the vote and we had better use it before it is taken away from us by the UN or any other group. As is usual, the elite intelligentsia and the judges they appoint think they know better than us. In history there have always been leaders who have been willing to appease. Democracy here so far has not voted for gay marriage, the people voted against it over and over again and the elite judge or politician here or there have rammed it down the throats of the voters, as if there is a constitutional right to redefine traditional words; and they also rammed through the Ground Zero Mosque. You can see Raheel Raza a moderate Muslim women talk against it on the O’Reilly show on Youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmKYd74nulk We allow and gays to live in the open, and women to be educated, to drive, to work, to move about the city on their own, to travel, to initiate divorce, to be in the same room as an unrelated male without punishment, to wear slacks, and women to not be covered so that nothing shows, to wear bathing suits, show their hair, and dogs to be treated nicely, and transported, and people to buy sell drink transport alcohol, to publish buy Playboy and the Swimsuit issue, to listen to music, to play music, to date, to have cartoons, to have piggy banks, Pooh Bear, Piggy, Tigger, and Eeyore, figures, pig calendars, and festivals to celebrate the pig industry if they so choose, and critical discussions of religious figures, and let people make their own decisions about what food they eat, buy, and about their hair cuts and beards. We have more sexual freedom; voluntary birth control. We believe in romantic love as a basis for marriage. We do not do female genital mutilation. We do not allow polygamy. Instead of absolute prohibition by law, we expect people to exercise self-control regarding alcohol, and sex, or face the consequences. We do not see Mohammed as infallible. This summary is not all-inclusive.

Joe, Please note that Jews in Ontario Canada gave up the Beit Din in Ontario Canada in order to help ban Sharia, which moderate Muslims,and women, and Catholics and Jews wanted to see banned. Please read my other posts.

I am not the first person to think about equality under the law by far. Though when I say that I do it with the reverence that such a great principle deserves. Churchill noted that those who would trade a little freedom for a little security would soon have neither. If what you said was true and a community of Jews gave up their right to have a Beit Din (and I have not heard of this, I doubt it happened) in order to prevent others from having a Sharia court they could voluntarily use, then those Jews will soon be assimilated or driven away when there is nothing to protect being Jewish. That is a tragedy if true, not a triumph.

Islam is closer to the Torah than secularism and Christianity is. These articles whereby Jews are encouraged to support Esav and be against Yishmael, are more reflective of the misunderstandings of those who haven't fully integrated the Torah's vision and still live by western values, than by those who have integrated real Torah values. Why should a Jew support western values - which promote gay marriage, a constant degradation of tznius, where adultery is accepted if not promoted, atheism poisions the hearts and minds of jewish youth, and christianity a religion of idolotry is the main religion?

Moshe, We are talking about Sharia not Islam. Read up on what the punishments under Sharia are. Moderate Muslims in North America don't want Sharia. There is spiritual Islam, and there is political Islam which is totalitarian and supremacist. Read my other posts. Maybe you should buy and read an inexpensive book “The Al Qaeda Reader: The Essential Texts of Osama Bin Laden's Terrorist Organization [Paperback] By Raymond Ibrahim who is a historian of the Middle East and Islam. He works for the Near East section of the African and Middle Eastern division of the Library of Congress, where he discovered many of the never-before-translated Arabic texts that make up the bulk of The Al-Qaeda Reader.”

Hi TMay I read your posts. I refer you first to my previous point. These articles whereby Jews are encouraged to support Esav and be against Yishmael, are more reflective of the misunderstandings of those who haven't fully integrated the Torah's vision and still live by western values, than by those who have integrated real Torah values. Judaism is an integrated vision - all encompassing. We want the whole world to be monotheists. It is spiritual and political. We don’t carry out physical punishments nowadays because we don’t have a Sanhedrin. But if we did, we would. With all respect, if you would like to know what Judaism holds, I suggest starting with the Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin. I could go through each of your posts and show you how you are attached to western values of political freedom, and democracy. These are good values from a Jewish perspective but they are not the final values. The final values involve the whole world recognising G-d’s sovereignty over the whole creation, with institutions and societal norms that reflect this understanding.

Definitely alarmist. This entire article is silly. I am disappointed in aish for posting it. What are you really saying here? That Muslims don't like to have cities full of prostitution and drinking? I'm not in favor of that either! Maybe I don't want governments to try to control behavior in that way (prohibition was already tried and didn't work so well). But if all that is happening is that posters are being hung up to try to change public opinion, well, I'd call that freedom of speech. The fears that people are expressing about Muslims are simply the overblown fears about immigrants, or anyone who is "different", which come around every generation or so. From the alien and sedition acts in John Adams' day to McCarthyism, these fears are part of human nature but as seen over and over in history, they can cause a lot of damage if allowed free rein. No one can deny that Muslims have committed acts of terrorism. But so have Christians. For however many people were involved in Sept. 11, there are at least millions more who are Muslim and had nothing to do with it and never would. Focusing on all Muslims as a threat accomplishes nothing except taking our attention off actual dangerous plotters who can be found all over the world.

Except that radical Islamists make no bones about wanting to take over the world and justifiying it by saying it's in the Quran. Of course there are moderate Muslims. No one is saying all Muslims are evil. There were many free thinking Germans during WWII, too. Most wee afraid to say or do anything because they were afraid of being thrown into the cooking pot. There were also those few that actually stood up for their values. I pray that in the when the time comes, and it will come, that those free thinking Muslims stand up for their values and fight on the right side.

It's not about posters. They are shoving their rules up other peoples neighborhoods. Do you think it's right to impose your opinion on someone else? And if he doesn't comply with that he feels the right to take your life... stoning you to death? Is that... freedom of speech? I would say it is exactly the opposite....

I actually saw this coming approximately 18 years ago. At that time I listened to BBC World Service. The names of the presenters then being almost entire British. Shortly thereafter, the names changed to Moslem (i.e., Pakastani, Iraqi, Iranian, etc.) names. An early "predictor" of things to come? I think so. I saw (and see) similar things happening in the US beginning back in 1987. We seem to be living in the age of "Paper Tiger Governments"!

I'm no expert in the laws of our land, however to impose religious law in place of pre-existing law upon a nation with out their consent is asking for trouble. As i live in Australia, I am bound by Australian Law irrespective of my views, and so it should be for these Muslims in England as well. If one dose not like the laws of a country, then one has the choice to leave that country. I feel for our brothers in England and else where were this issue has arisen. This same issue is starting to arise here in Australia as well although not to the same extent as England, as yet.

I knew someone that was very wealthy and high positioned in Germany before the rise of HItler. When he saw what was happening he tried to warn people about the danger, but no one believed him. He was lucky to have emigrated to Israel before the war. My own grandfather tried to do the same in Poland, when towns were already being evacuated for the camps, and no one believed him. The Arabs were bosom buddies with the Nazis during WWII, they learned a lot. Hitler targeted the youth, people that had no affiliations that were looking for some structure. Radical Islamists are doing the same thing. Germany was the height of modern thinking, but economic conditions caused a lot of unrest and people were ready for a change. Sound familiar? Even when the death camps were in full swing, people within and without Germany and Europe refused to believe such a thing was possible. Now we have someone like Achmadinijad that tells the world that the holocaust didn't happen. Many people believe him. By the next generation the holocaust history will be removed from textbooks in many places (it's already happening in some). In societies where women sell their children to be used as fodder, where people are immortalized for destroying themselves and taking others with them, where life has no intrinsic value, there is no room for reason or rationality. These societies are popping up in non muslim countries. We've got homegrown terrorists living right next door. Neo-nazi camps and white supremist organizations exist in this country as well. Where youths are looking for structure, they will find it, if not in their own culture then in others. We can't bury our head in the sand and pretend it's not happening. Little by little people become anesthetized and complacent about radical ideas. What seems outrageous today, tomorrow we accept without barely blinking an eye.

Radical Islam is of course a terrible threat. Muslim terrorists of course have a fascist ideology or theocratic and barbaric domination. The Iranian nuclear program - and the lack of will of anyone (and that is *both* parties in America) to do something about it is an even worse threat. That said, creatures like Choudary are being used by other groups to promote their own much less than healthy agenda. I don't know how much people here follow events in America, but this article is from a very far and very loony right wing site, and the video is from RT (Russia Today) which used to be Tass. Let me briefly point out that the most dangerous message in history is a nationalist populist one that claims to restore the true destiny and mythical past of a downtrodden and fearful people looking for vengeance. They are the "real" people and to do this they of course must root out "traitors" and foreign elements. If that means stripping some liberties and crushing any dissent in the name of the glorious cause so be it. Of course that usually also means silencing academic sorts who ask too many questions. That is of course the message of tyrants since long before Hitler. If the people are downtrodden and afraid of others, it spreads like wildfire. Notice very clearly the rhetoric of "real Americans" like people at American Thinker. Then take YOUR head out of the sand.

To all of you EDL, Atlas Shrugs, Fox News loving, Limbaugh listening neo-fascist troglodytes a message: 1. Proud democracies do not surrender their precious freedoms and heritage just because the weak willed members of those democracies are easily led, fearful and unreasoning. You who would joyfully destroy constitutions and freedoms that vastly greater men than you died for are already the thing you claim to hate. 2. No one is saying that it is OK to have a Sharia zone and frankly it is not happening despite what the fear mongers are saying. What did happen though was a knee jerk set of laws in America that denied one group of Americans the right to a binding religious arbitration of their choosing. That same legal formula though is what allows a Beit Din. 3. Nothing differentiates you from Choudary save fashion sense. You want to impose your views on others and deny religious rights. So does he. You are both a blight on Democracy.

Has anyone ever viewed the debate between Dr. Wafa Sultan and Muslim clerics that occurred a few short years ago? She is a Muslim psychiatrist and has plenty to teach both Muslims and Non Muslims about their religion. We must educate ourselves and others. It is like Dr. Wafa Sultan states: "My people have been held prisoners by their own religion for centuries. We cannot break free with out someone from the outside cracking the prison walls." (Paraphrased). I hope it's not too late.

Whose to say that Sharia Law controlled area in the USA will be different than the Islamic countries? The type of people who want to see Sharia Law implemented in the UK, US, wherever are radical Islamists. I think that if Sharia Law was implemented in the US, it would be the same Saudi Arabia

If sharia Law ever comes to the USA or England,it will indeed be a bleak day.Sharia is the same,basically,wherever it is imposed.The non-Moslems will be given the choice to convert(or "revert" as Moslems like to say) or become "dhimmi" and pay the "jizyar".In a Sharia controlled zone the age old laws will apply,humiliation and crippling taxation for the "infidels",subservience to the Moslem masters,no building of Churches,repairing damaged churches,no public display of Christianity ,Judaism,or any other faith.The dhimmi will probably have to wear distinctive clothing or badges and the slightest infringement of the rules will mean that the "protection" of Islam is removed and then every non moslem is fair game.Then all those who talked down their free Western,democratric countries will see the terrible thing that they helped to bring about.Pray it never happens.

The devout Moslems in England(it is mainly England,not Scotland,Wales or Ireland) are no doubt serious about their wish to introduce Sharia into the country.Unfortunately misguided or plain wicked members of the governing elite have allowed these courts to function at a low level and this has enboldened these Moslems.At present the Sharia rulings that are permitted can be over-ruled by the courts of justice;there are some on the left however who want to give the sharia courts power in their own right;but who can understand what goes on in the addled brains of the bourguoise left?Of course this particular event is a publicity stunt;it is really fly-posting with a religious-political message.It is illegal to userp the laws of the land,treasonable in fact ,but the lily livered politicians would rather treat it as a misguided prank.The Moslems will continue to push and probe,biding their time until ,by sheer force of numbers they will be in a position to demand sharia in areas that will,in time, become overwhelmingly Moslem.That time is some way off,but it probably will come.Why are we still talking about "moderate" Moslems?In Islam one is either a Moslem,in the "house of islam",and follows the quran and the Sunna,or one is an apostate who does neither and is in the "house of war"When the chips are down it will be very interesting to see how many "moderate "Moslems suddenly re-connect with their religious zeal and rejoin the "house of Islam".time will tell.

There are billions of acres of land occupied by Muslims, millions of cities where shariah is Law of the Land. Egypt, Libya, etc.. gov't fall to 'Muslim Brotherhood' or some such name... & implement SHARIAH LAW. WHY DON'T THE MUSLIMS STAY IN THEIR COUNTRIES??? lots of room For years, Muslims immigrate to England.. slowly change the lives of British people, right under their noses. British allowed too many, too fast.. too lenient, too tolerant. Too accepting . For every 'inch' the British gave... Muslims took a mile. Then, THERE WERE TOO MANY TO SAY NO TO.. or Else, they incite riots (under cover of racism to black??? s) British people did not stand up for their country, their way of life, their heritage, their laws while they had the chance... They thought being nice, accepting & '''we can live together, side by side and be different'''. This is what the British reasoned, Muslims..... from beginning.... implementing a TAKE OVER, and they don't give a rats ass about Englands history or heritage. AND, GIVING FOOD, MONEY AND EVERYTHING TO THEIR PEOPLE FOR FREE, HAS PROVEN TO BE DETRIMENTAL TO WHAT WAS ONCE A THRIVING, PROUD, HARD WORKING SOCIETY. GOD HELP YOU ALL. to COMMON SENSE.... '''' move to England, experience their fears, see first hand what is happening''''' that is, unless you are one of those who does not respect others history and heritage.'''

How is this any different than what Jews do in borough park! Many Jews feel comfortable harassing people who don't dress or act a certain way when they enter ultra orthodox neighborhoods. Look if I wear a tank top in Mea Sharim I expect to get spit on, and I deserve it! If I drink on the st in a predominantly conservative Muslim neighborhood, don't they have the same right to want to keep their community intheir traditions?

How dare you compare the Orthodox Jews to these crazed Muslim jihadists! Do you realize that the penalty for violating the sharia law involves lashes, cutting off of limbs, and even death!?! Do not even compare the looks of Orthodox Jews to Sharia law! What kind of twisted world do some of these posters live in?

Another point is that people in Mea Sharim who become physical with anyone are breaking the law and should be punished in exactly the same way any other religious vigilante would be punished in a free society.

Nothing is beyond the relgiious zeal of the Muslim drive to impose their religion on the entirer world. Ethics, surpression, fear, and our Christian laws not withstanding. To disregard this behaviour is foolhardy.

Definitely a threat and should be strongly dealt with by the police just as any other lawbreaker (sign posters, group enforcers etc) would be.

Think about it: is there any way for an extremist Muslim group to convince hundreds of thousands of legislators, citizens, lawyers and judges to throw out centuries of jurisprudence - in any Western country - and start anew? Could you convince your local representatives to rewrite your country's laws to suit your whims? No? Then how could a shadowy group of (theoretical) Muslim extremists? This article is alarmist, misleading, and downright incorrect in many of its claims. It also links itself to the anti-Sharia cause in the United States, where it is an extreme partisan issue. Intimidation by Muslims of other Muslims through groups like the one highlighted above might indeed a problem in some inner-city areas (and probably a matter for the local police), but there is absolutely no attempt to impose Sharia law on on the legal systems of the United States or United Kindgom. Even the legislators who have rushed to add anti-Sharia provisions to state constitutions - such as in Oklahoma - freely admit they never faced any pressure whatsoever to adopt Sharia law in their states. This entire article is factually incorrect and inflamatory.

ha ha, the reporter's name is Laura "Emet" which means "truth" in Hebrew!

The media is a powerful tool no matter how we use it in a sense. I studied Islam for 9 years. The typical terroristic stereotypical attributions to Muslims are put in place, lacking any minimal supporting base. The Muslims who follow the teachings of Quran don't in any manner adhere to the groups that kill, behead, bomb or terrorize people in the name of Islam. It is forbidden to do this. God himself said that killing one person for no justified reason is the sin of killing all mankind. The Shariah law, similar to the Halkah law, is an interpretation. Some of the interpretations might be formulated to fit the standards of an extremist party justifying terror in the name of God. Please understand that the media is so powerful! Don't let it be in a wrong way.

No minority may enter a country and impose its laws and customs on the people, among whom they are living. To do so, is the height of arrogance. Should they win a parliamentary majority, which is their aim, then, of course, it is their right. Until that day arrives, G-D forbid, these arrogant Muslims must behave themselves, and integrate into the broader society, and contribute to that society, without making these absurd demands, that have been made. They must respect the host-country's laws, abide by these laws, and should they not like this imposition, they should be encouraged to return from whence they came. They left their birth country, to better their lives in the west, where they have been given freedom that they never had in their own country. Tell them not to abuse this privilege, as there are millions of hard-working, educated, civilized people in the world, who can't emigrate to Britain or Canada or the United States or Australia, because they do not qualify, for whatever reason. So tell these people to "shape up or ship out"

Plus Sharia allows men to have 4 wives. The Jews in Ontario, Canada chose to abandon all religious arbitration in order to ban Sharia law. In May 2005, the Quebec National Assembly unanimously supported a motion to block the use of Sharia law in Quebec courts. In a New Jersey case where a man raped his wife, the judge allowed the defense of Sharia law. A Court of Appeal overturned it. BTW, Pres Obama appointed pro-Shariah law Kagan for life to the USSC. Irshad Manji says that Muslim young women attending US universities whisper to her that they cannot speak up about the need for Islamic reform because they will be raped as punishment. Eddie, I see where the Oklahoma law you referred to was overturned by a Court of Appeals judge. The Lords Prayer was taken out of Canadian public schools a few years ago because it was not inclusive enough and that was accepted by Canadians. On Youtube, you can see the protests, with Raheel Raza speaking, about the Toronto District School Board (TDSB) Ontario Canada public school decision to allow Muslim prayer on Fridays in the school cafeteria, where boys are segregated from girls, menstruating girls sit in the back from other girls, and girls have to use different doors, while Christians and Jews cannot pray at the same public school. Mark Steyn wrote an article with a foto on his website entitled “How Unclean Was My Valley” http://www.steynonline.com/content/view/4259/28/ I do not see the argument that because orthodox Jews in Jerusalem Israel have a neighborhood that therefore in the US and Canada and Europe we cannot limit men from beating up and raping unveiled women, beating up people who drink liquor, listen to music, homosexuals, prostitutes, plus they are anti-dog. We need to decide what kind of society we want and make some decisions and draw a line in the earth. As someone from Cuba once said “I was lucky, I had someplace to escape to, the US.” If we lose our country, there is no place to which to move.

Avi, I disagree. The women who come from LDCs do not know their rights in Canada so if their husbands tell them they have to go to a Sharia court they will go, and the laws are not fair for both sexes. It is moderate or dissident or reform Muslims who do not want Sharia law in N. America because they left Muslim countries to come to a country with individl rights. Please note that we are not the 1st country to deal with this. In Canada in Ontario they tried to introduce Sharia into Canadian law and it was Canadian Muslim women, Irshad Manji and Raheel Raza,(both are authors, born abroad), and Muslim Canadian Congress and others who objected. You can see them on Youtube and they are eloquent. Regarding Sharia in the UK, Irshad Manji, said about Britain “leaders are often mis-leaders” talking about Rowan Williams the Archbishop of Canterbury, a Sharia law for the UK cheerleader. Irshad said that in Britain, Islamic men can send their wives to a Muslim doctor who will diagnose the women as crazy and lock them up in a mental institution, the NHS, allowing them to divorce their wives and marry someone else, and people know about it and say nothing because of intimidation. That way the men get what they want and the British taxpayer supports the ex-wives. Raheel Raza wrote “Mayor Bloomberg and bleeding heart white liberals like him don't understand the battle we moderate Muslims are faced with in terms of confronting radical Islam and Islamization, and political Islam in North America, which has only grown since 9-11 because of political correctness”. She also wrote “We don’t want Sharia law or a Caliphate in North America – do you?” She said there is a difference between the liberal spiritual message of Islam, and the political ideology of Islam which is Islamism, radical and “an armed political ideology similar to fascism and engaged in a worldwide effort to subvert democracies and to expand the space for the implementation of its ideology, the Shariah.”

although we Jews have the benefit of our own Beth Din. it is inscribed in our law that any law of the land we live in supersedes our law( within parameters) but certainly, any enforcement would only be at the behest of the law of the land

I believe this is a very real threat and must be stopped. The Muslims have no right to impose their insane beliefs on others. They are out of control and this should have been stopped a long time ago.

1. I am very well aware of what Sharia law is and is not. The fact that Sharia is not the same as Halacha or that we as Jews like halacha much better, believe that it is true, and don't try to impose it is not the point. In fact, that is completely irrelevant. In the eyes of a secular state in terms of maintaining the rights of a religious group they are identical. American and British law do not get to pick and choose any favourites. That is how it should be. That protects Jews and everyone else not interested in a state religion other than their own. 2. The cure proposed by right wing loons at American Thinker and many of the commenters here, like the Oklahoma law banning Sharia is worse than the disease. I repeat. Starting down the path of saying that this religious code can not be voluntarily used but that one can is a very steep and very slippery slope. Once you allow the state to regulate religion and free expression the minority truly will feel its minority status. That means us. 3. Muslims in America or England can not create or enforce "Sharia zones." This is a publicity stunt. States do not take kindly to those who write their own laws. 4. The only way that there would be actual "Sharia zones" in America or England would be if legislatures vote such laws into effect. That simply will not happen. Any "vigilantes" who harass a citizen will be arrested or worse - particularly in the States and particularly in this climate of fear. 5. Of course the article is histrionic. Please we have the standard right wing persecution whines about how those mean lefties don't understand how they are true patriots who want to destroy American liberties. We have the ominous Muslim bogey man coming down main street USA. The truth is we are talking about a jerk in London and his minions with delusions of grandeur. Radical Islam is a terrible threat. Becoming fascists who destroy our civil liberties is a more present danger.

They said the same thing about Hitler.

Shall we count the differences? 1. Hitler was part of a German movement in Germany and backed by very wealthy German industrialists. Their message was that they were the real Germans to the German people. Choudary et al. are not particularly well loved foreigners in a foreign nation trying to impose their form of "real Islam" on a non-Muslim state. 2. The fundamental message of claiming a twisted and xenophobic nationalism of the Nazis only applies when one is using it on members of that group. The typical Brit or American just isn't Muslim. 3. In terms of twisted and xenophobic nationalism though that claims to be the real Americans, wishes to find bogey men who are hated and distrusted to exploit for their own ends, having the support of wealthy industrialists, and a campaign based on demonetization of the "other" and destroying the rights of others, the folks at American Thinker and the tea-party movement have a lot more in common with Hitler than the situation in Britain.

Show me actual violence perpetrated by incitement created by this loon in London not resulting in arrests, let me repeat that, NOT resulting in arrests, and I'll start worrying. I'd also love to see people here worry just as much about Chasidim in NYC trying to prevent people from riding bicycles through their neighborhoods because they're wearing tank tops and shorts. Just because degrees vary, doesn't mean it's not the same thing. When it comes to civil law, hate to burst everyone's bubble, but Joe's right - it is.

I see that many are siding with "religious freedom" in this matter. So, does religious freedom trump everything? It's an interesting debate, and not just in terms of Islam. Some examples: 1) A child is in an accident and needs a blood transfusion, but the parents are Jehova's Witnesses and refuse to get it. Child dies. Are the parents culpable or innocent because they followed their religion? 2) There is a religion called Santerismo which comes from the Caribbean. Within their religion is the sacrifice of animals. When Miami-Dade police find these animals, do they have the right to arrest the practitioners for animal cruelty? 3) The daughter of a Muslim couple converts to Chrisitanity and is killed by her father. The Koran says to kill apostates and that it is forbidden to convert to another religion. Doing so warrants the death penalty according to the Koran. Should he be convicted for following the edicts of his religion? Before jumping on the "freedom of religion" bandwagon, take the idea of freedom for the practice of all religion to its logical end. Do we really want to live in a society where such "freedoms" abound?

This is one of the stupidest and most paranoid things I've ever heard. It's people with this line of thinking that really cause unnecessary panic in people gullible enough to believe this drivel.

This IS the main focus of the Muslim world, this always has been their cause for 'populating' the world, to make it into a Muslim state, worldwide. The Qur'an encourages them to do so, hmmmm...sounds very similar to the RC organization that has their world plan in place to infiltrate the world with their cultish beliefs. Your denial of the reality of this situation is drivel. Wake up, unless your Muslim or RC, then that would explain your response.

That's exactly what people said as Hitler came on the scene in the 1930's. It's what the Lithuanian Jews said as the Polish Jews were running away to safety at the beginning of the war and tried to warn them. Careful.

These ideas belong to Saudi Arabia and other prejudiced Muslim countries. This will not be tolerated in Europe nor the USA! People of every city must get up and fight for their home land's freedom. The extremists are welcome to take a one way trip back to their place of birth.

Is the info above alarmist? If all those who read the article and view the video knew how extremely different the ideals contained the Qumran are (which Muslim extremists use to justify their actions), then I think they'd say this does not go far enough toward sounding the alarm.

I worked in Walthamstow for over 25 years and am horrified to learn about the muslims trying to create sharia-law zones there and elsewhere.Please keep up your vigilance and keep us all l informed. This is extremely dangerous- and the tendency to be neutral towards other religions in an attempt to maintain a multicultural society hides the truth from politicians and the public.

Sharia Koranic Law allows a husband to beat a disobeying wife. it also condones, indeed, encourages, honor killings if a son or daughter dishonors the family. Sharia also is intolerant to other religions. I know that because I'm an Egyptian Jew, ethnically cleansed along with nearly one million Jews from 9 Arab countries and Iran. Sharia Koranic law does not believe in separation of church (or mosque) and state. Islam is the state and the state is Islam. Do we want all this in our society? Of course not. Unfortunately, Western Europe and America are slowly becoming Islamised. In my experience, having lived under the boot of an Arab/Muslim culture, Islam is NOT a religion of peace, but one of violence. You can see it all around you, daily, as Muslims slaughter each other in Iraq and Afghanistan and before that, in Algeria and as Muslims kill Christians in Egypt in Gaza and elsewhere. . We need to be aware of these events and connect the dots, from 9/11 to what is happening today.

Moderate Muslims are at the crossroads of their history where a mea culpa is needed, one that would create an Islamic Reformation. It is time for peace-loving Muslims to bring the religion of Islam into the 21st Century; to purge their ideology of the prejudice and hatred that is incorporated into the Qur'on

The UK has a government, including a Prime Minister. I don't see any problem with the powers that be, taking a positive approach to stopping the Sharia Law from even existing in Britain. Those who know and understand what that law means, with its violence, injustice, killings and vigilante committees, all pointed at Weatern culture, should have taken steps long ago. It was then they could have "nipped it in the bud", and prevented the current situation from even occurring.

The UK, in fact has a government which is bending over backwards to encourage Islam, while at the same time, via the BBC it is covertly undermining Christianity. Just think of all the stupid PC laws, used by local councils to ban Christmas parties & decorations, making the waring of even a tiny cross a near crime, while permitting burqa & the like! UK Moslems talk about the UK being a caliphate by 2050, & as matters are now it wouldn't suprise me! Praise the Lord I'll not be here to see it!

Whenever government abdicates its responsibilities people turn to strongmen to restore order. This was true in Sicily and it was true in the American West. Much of what these Muslims want is what the government should be doing. The solution is a return to a society based on ordered liberty. Parenthetically, there is nothing wrong with Muslims vountarily taking their disputes to Sharia courts just as Jews should take theirs to batei din. In fact Alternative Dispute Resolution is becoming more and more popular world-wide due to the collapse of the civil courts under the weight of cases.

With repect -- no-one wants Sharia Law in London, and as has been pointed out, the posters were quickly taken down and the world moved on. But isn't there a similar situation in both Israel and the USA (and in certain instances, London as well) where Haredi Jews also impose their own laws - often violently enforced - in public streets?

Check out this story...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1377780/London-Taliban-targeting-women-gays-bid-impose-sharia-law.html

Unlike Islam, Judaism does not call for peoples' hands to be cut-off if they steal or for them to killed if they do not follow Judaism. Judaism does not resemble Islam, and the comparisons are tiresome.

It is not alarmist. If we in the West do not learn about political Islam sweeping our countries, we are surely going to lose Western values and democratic freedoms. Indeed, it is already with us.

Although I agree everyone has a right to his or her freedoms, I also believ that no one has the right to FORCE them onto anyone that doesnt want to believe or live those same freedoms! And thats exactly what Choudary is trying to do by intimidation, bullying and acts of violence! That kind of Islam is bad for the world. Those that want to force it on the world must be severely dealt with. We MUST show them that what they are doing will not be tolerated!! We CANNOT allow it spread like a cancer and take over. It IS what they want. If you dont believe that they want world domination and everyone bowing to Islam and obeying Sharia Law then you are a fool. Their Holy Qur'an tells them it is the only way. KILL ALL infidels!! Anyone that does not convert is to become a slave or die. Believe it!!

Islamic conquest via demographics. These are the consequences for any country that imports large numbers of Muslims. Jihad; the conquest of all countries, and the imposition of excessively cruel Islamic sharia law where defenseless non-Muslims have no human rights, is a command in the Koran. There are many Muslim areas in India, Israel, UK and Europe where it is too dangerous for non-Muslims to enter. In some Muslim areas of Europe, the hate for non-Muslims is so intense that ambulances require a police escort. Why are our leaders so ruthless as to import people who hate us and want to conquer us? It spits on the graves of, and makes a mockery of the many brave heroes who fought and died in the world wars so that we could live in freedom.

I can appreciate Joe's logical and erudite comment, but he's left out several relevant premises. First, it can not be 'histrionic' to disclose the truth, ie; actual events. You don't get to belittle or demean actual events. they are what they are and open for all individuals to ponder. You are able to offer your own analysis, but you do America, England, Europe and Israel a grave injustice in your delusional attempt to rationalize the meaning of this event. Secondly, you fail to give any credence to the Muslims who have vowed to make 'sharia' the law of the land and have expressed, at all times, that their goal is to impose this upon everyone. Unlike the Beit Din, Jews have never expressed imposing our religion on anyone, and no Rabbi has ever endorsed beheading, stoning, raping, lashes. If Muslims live by the Quoran, then this is their beleif, and if they come out and tell you they want you converted or dead, then only your elitist liberal mind can ignore it.

The Moslems taking over the world is like a dog who chases a car. If he caught it, he would not know what to do with it. If they "take over the world", what is their plan? They don't promote justice & mercy, they don't promote education & innovation. The main reason why there are so many Moslems in Europe and the US is because back home there is no freedom & opportunity, only tyranny and an oil dependency that only benefits the wealthy. Show me the Arab country with a happy middle class as a role model. After Arab Spring, they need to show how successfully they can govern their own countries, before they consider trying to rule over our countries.

http://britainfirst.org/muslimdemographics.html

I have to fully agree with Joe's comments, as though it is wise to be aware of this, really it is scaremongering. In any case the councils concerned have removed the posters, which only reflect a medieval mindset of a few extreme Muslims who try to take the law into their own hands.

Islamists are known for testing the waters to see how deep they can go. The posters may be removed temporarily, but time will show what tactics will be used next or where they will be used. This strategy is most successful in dividing non-Muslims which is really what Islamists hoping to achieve. The more vulnerable a nation and its people are, the more emboldened Islamists become.

This is so messed up before you know it Muslims will take over the whole world. What can we do to stop it????

My home state of Oklahoma passed a constitutional amendment (to the state constitution) forbidding Sharia law in Oklahoma. This is why.

Let me start by saying that I am about as pro-Israel and proud to be a Jew as anyone can get. I am also very aware of the serious dangers presented by radical Islam. I say that to avoid a knee-jerk criticism of being a relativist or a self hater by those who respond with fear before thought. Both the United States and Britain have strong democracies that protect individual rights of worship. Choudary is of course appalling. Lots of appalling people say lots of appalling things. Lots of people post all sorts of fliers. That comes with freedom of speech and with freedom of religion. The same rights that allow him to be a jerk and promote stupid things that will never, ever be passed into law in either Britain or America also protect your right to be a Jew and practice Judaism. Sharia law will not and can not replace American or British Law without legislative action to make those laws part of the secular legal code. Ban Sharia? Some places want to do that. SF wants to ban circumcision! Do you see the problem? Ban the rights of Muslims to have disputes legally and bindingly arbitrated by a Sharia court? How is that *legally* different from banning a Beit Din? It isn't. A Beit Din has legal authority in the US by the mechanism of a binding arbitration. Starting down the path of saying that this religious code can not be voluntarily used but that one can is a very steep and very slippery slope. Once you allow the state to regulate religion and free expression (outside of regulating criminal practices whether they are part of a religious code or not) the minority truly will feel its minority status. This article is nothing more than far rightwing knee jerk fear mongering. It is anti freedom, anti-democracy and ultimately against the interests of the Jewish people. I am not only appalled for those reasons, but appalled that I had to write something that even hints at supporting a slime like Choudary.

Joe, you are missing the point. This article isn't "anti-freedom, anti-democracy, and ultimately against the interests of the Jewish people," Shariah Law is. Go ahead. Try to visit any country that was previously democratic, and now controlled by Shariah and just see how welcome your opinions are. Our systems of freedom to choose officials that agree with our beliefs could be used against us, as in other nations already overcome by this political system. Their representatives get in power and take over. Do your reasearch.

Joe, you're missing the point. Through the Beth Dins, Jews do NOT seek to impose Halachah on their non-Jewish neighbours. They seek only to live by the rules themselves. Muslims, on the other hand, see Shariah as the ONLY legitimate law and they DO try to impose it on everyone. Just try walking through a "Shariah only" zone in Paris, London or Amsterdam with a Kippah on your head and you'll quickly discover the truth of this. We cannot afford to be complacent!

While I appreciate the nature of your comment, I must agree with the first gentleman's reaction - if you don't like or agree with the law of the land, move to where it does suit you. Do you think the Muslims or anyone else for that matter moves to a democratic country if not to be a part of the relative economic privilege it affords them? Living under our laws is a responsibility we take on.

Your logic does not take into consideration the Koranic mandate for world domination by force. The West must come to terms with a mindset that is copletely different and opposed to it's own. Jewish law applies to Jews and does not impose itself on non-Jews. Oklahoma has taken the stand that must be taken throughout the free world. This has nothing to do with fear mongering or religious rights and everything to do with our responsibility to protect Western civilization from subversion and manipulation from within by cultures which oppose modernity and our way of life. Freedom must be guarded or it can be lost.