Spanking: Is it okay?

My parents normally don't smack\spank\whip\slap or do anything like that, but when they don't give punishments to my ADHD 8-year-old brother (when he deserves it), I get a bit angry (becuz he's ADHD he knows that they won't just hit him or give him a punishment because they know his problem). I tell them that but they don't really understand (that's what it looks like). My brother literally does what he wants. Comes home when ever he likes, doesn't eat, goes to bed at 11:00-12:00, doesn't get up the next morning....I don't think I have to carry on...

Even if 100% of CEO's were spanked as children, one can not make any meaningful conclussions. A better study would compare the percentages of spanked and non-spanked children who latter became CEO'S. There are other ways of disciplining children. I was never spanked, and I am now a surgeon.

My father beat the living daylights out of me, always in anger. His father beat him with razor straps. I made it my business to go easier on my 4 sons, but, in honesty, I spanked them in anger, as well. They are all good people, they treat their children well. My # 4 son. who I rarely spanked, never spanks his son. Boy, is he a spoiled "Bondit." However, he's so loveable !

I love your insightful and often humorous commentary on life. But can you please nudge the pendulum on the clock behind you so we get a sense of
time, motion and life instead of you speaking from a timeless,lifeless limbo where time itself is verily frozen!
If it doesn't work I'll be happy to contribute towards the purchase of a new one.It's driving me NUTS!Something to think about!

EDITOR'S RESPONSE
Rabbi Salomon turns the clock off when he tapes since it makes noise. So don't sweat it.

The latest thoughts, psychologically-speaking, are that spanking only teaches a child that a big person has more power over a little person and that he/she can do the same when an adult.

what is the hardest thing to do is to decied to spank or not your child (defenetely not beating, but just spanking, i think that belt is too much for it). when child is throwing the tantrum on the road, while crossing it, there is no time to argue - it's time to spank and may be even drag your child to safety. when the situation is safe, you can try alternatives.
i think that you should give us more situations (live situations) and when we are talking about the rod, is it only physical punishment (and it can include taking the toys or mobiles from children too).
very hard question and definately something to think about.
one more thing: just thank to Sarah for sharing her point of view.
i think that it's easier to take the pain of spanking and be angree at your parents, than wainting for the punishment (no matter what it is)

I am a father of 4 sons between the ages of 4 and 12. I have never once spanked them for any reason at any time in their lives. Myself and my wife believe that physical abuse of a child, no matter how slight or for whatever reason is categorically wrong. Setting clear expectations to the child, sticking to your principles (even under fire) and if necessary, setting the child in time-out for a single minute give the proper message to the child. It is normal to be angry at a child when they misbehave, but you must control your physical destructive approach and use words and constructive action.

I agree Sarah. I think punishing two days later is cruel. Little ones have forgotten what it was that they did by then. I warn first, then they know what will happen if they disobey. Sometimes they test me to see if I will follow through. And I always do! Not only do they know I mean business, but they know that Mummy tells the truth and carries out what she says she will do. That increases their respect for what I say. Also works positively too!! When I say, 'I will play with you as soon as I've put the washing away', they know I will.

I belive that before we spank our kids, we should verify how we are behaving in front of them. Maybe the way we act is affecting their behavior.

Punishment should be delivered in a way that is constructive and caring at the same time. Also must be accompanied with a very clear message. Even though it might sound hard to belive, we must put ourselves in their position, they inherit our way of being and sometimes we can see in them a reflection of what we used to be 30 or 40 years ago.

The one thing he didn't mention is whether or not HE was spanked and how it has affected his life.
Making such an issue of it seems to indicate it touched a raw nerve unsettling him to respond to USA Today's article.

I am shocked at the number of commenters who think spanking is okay. I was hoping R. Salomon was going to say that after two days, the rabbi no longer felt the need to spank his child for the infraction. I was spanked by my father and I resent it to this day, although I better understand the pressure he was under. All of the successful people spanked as children (and becoming a CEO is not a primary measure of success for me, are they successful in family relationships and are they moral?) succeeded despite the fact that they were spanked and not because of it. In fact, I avoid punishing my children altogether. Except for those spankings I was never punished and I am still a moral, responsible adult. Mopst punishments are revenge, as R. Salomon says, and there are better ways to raise children.

We are adopting and required by the state in which we live to sign a form promising that we will use no corporal punishment whatsoever, so the choice has been taken away from us.

It's absolute rubbish that spanking produces abusers.

However, beating the living daylights out of your kids is different.

A spank after a warning ("if you do that again I will give you a spanking") is not a problem.

My parents waited a cpl of days before punishing me and it had a terrible effect. I was always terrified that the next moment they'd punish me for s/thing I nearly forgot about.

And yes, I think spanking is generally a good idea.

what i've found useful is to spank by gently touching my index finger to his/hers.
the kid gets the message and you dont have to terrorize him.
if serious punishment is necessary decide well ahead of time what the maximum you will do. don't leave open ended.

Shalom Rabbi;

I have to say that your teachings have changed my life. Sharing the Torah with the world is the best way to show how much we love G'd.

Thanks for your Help

I was spank when i was a child so did my brothers and sister. None of us ended up hating my parents for it, and we all turned up to be pretty good individuals all around.

As a mother of 2, I struggle with ways to discipline my children, (daughter 3 years and son 19 months) all the time. My Daughter has a heart of gold, yet extrememly strong minded and independent. She challenges my husband and I all the time. She is the type of child who needs constant discipline and at times when she wants to test every inch of us, she gets a spanking....(just a little on her behind)

It is out of anger you ask? Yes of course most of the time, but with the desire to simply discipline, bring the best out of her and with the hopes that she will become more of a respectful child.

However as a parent I feel like a failure when I do spank her.....I am afraid she will learn nothing good out of it or worse, make her become more aggressive, and/or she may resent us later in life.

If I don't spank her, when she truly deserves one because of her behaviour, I also feel like a failure, because I simply don't know what else to do and feel helpless and undeservant of being a parent which is the biggest blessing of my my life. I have taken classes on how to raise your children without raising your voice with Sarah chana radcliffe. I have learned a lot from it, yet there are still those times, after all the times out and all the other techniques, where I do find myself spanking the love of my life. and I just hate it........

Either way, I feel like a failure...

My kids hate the times I spanked them and bring it up all the time.. it didnt work.. only momentarily.. proved by when my 13 year old tried to lightly tap his teachers head.. and nearly got expelled.. spanking is against the law now in Sydney, Australia...as spanking can get out of hand and is considered brutal here, and an invasion of personal body space... and it also seeks to proceed to spouse beating...

Yes, the Torah says "spare the rod and spoil the child", but what does it mean by 'the rod'? Is this really a literal rod? Is it not rather the whole teaching and discipline of the Torah?

I was provoked to think clearly about spankings done in anger or frustration.

Small children should imo be dealt with immediately, more carefully, with lighter strokes and smaller rods. We have a rule on size and number - one stroke per year of age. Not bigger than the childs small finger. Wood or plastic.

I know that when I am diligent to spank for direct disobedience of a known rule, then I am less likely to become frustrated or angry. However I feel anger does not necessarily mean the sin of taking revenge. Am I angry because a child has done something to defame or discredit G-d? or myself? Am I frustrated and tired?
Do I have anger that is controled? Speaking quietly, firmly and clearly the instruction that was broken. I feel I am responsible to be self controled what ever my emotion so that I may serve G-d. I believe also that striking with the tongue is more damaging than stokes done in anger for a clear offense.
The kinsman avenger was not held guilty of murder if he killed the one who killed his relative when found outside the city of refuge.

Now teens that have longer memories, I like the idea of waiting two days to teach, train or punish them, however I would likely not spank them for direct disobedience and would prefer natural consequences.

Also a foolish child is provoked to anger by just about anything. A just punishment is no different. A small child's attitude toward a just punishment must also be dealt with, that they themselves be taught to restrain retaliation against the one who disciplines them in love.

Blessings

Like the rest of us, the first thing you inherited when you were born was Guilt ...... Common to Jews everywhere, that Guilt skews our Logic for a myriad of reasons that would require an entirely different missive to exlain... In short, waiting two days, or any other long period of time to spank(Not Hit or Beat) a child translates in the child's mind to say that whatever the cause might have been, must not have been all that important in the first place because I am just now being punished ....... Clearly, the wrong message has been sent and the wrong precedent has been set ....... It is certainly NOT Revenge if one spanks a child near immediately after the infraction....... the closer to the infraction the punishment comes, the easier it is to make a child understand that there are consequences to every act, and that improperor/incorrect acts will result in punishment of a dire nature... THAT, understanding is what produces the tendency toward orderliness and a frum way of life ... Children especially, learn not so much by what we say to them or preach to them or yell at them, but by what they see us do in our own daily lives ... punishment is perhaps the only aside incident from which a child will learn anything....... Two thoughts in closing; The erstwhile Liberal Ubermensch Dr. Spock was rewarded for his restraint of corporal punishment by his sons fatal drug addiction and degenerate behavior, and when Ha'Shem was so disposed to punish upon this earth, He never waited two phreaking days to exact the deed ....... Boker Tov

Yes, I was physically and emotionally abused as a child. Thus my commitment as a mother was to *never* strike my child. And for years I never did. And it seemed to work ok. My son understood "time out," the issue of choice and consequences and modified his choices to avoid time out and other non-corporal consequences. Then he turned 7.

From then on non-corporal consequences had little to no effect on him or his behavior. It took some courageous loving people coming to me and a study of T'NaKah for me to learn the appropriate administration and timing of corporal consequences. AND I found that the need for ALL consequences dramatically decreased rather precipitously. Neither I nor my son regret this choice.

Reb Salomon
Great commentary. I have studied this subject for years and was suprised at the number of scriptures in Torah and Tanach about corporal punishment. I was also suprised to see the amount of instruction directed toward the mothers. This may be that there hearts are tender and needed more encouragement to do as Hashem has directed. I have three children, all of them were loved deeply and if needed, received the 'rod of G-d', with much care, never in anger. By the time they were four, the had been 'trained' and I could always take them anywhere. They were well behaved and as adults are all leaders and very successful.
Hashems directives are perfect, but must be administered with His love mercy and grace (His heart).
Walking in obedience to Torah, develops the parent as well as the child. Both are changed forever.

as a child I was spanked and yes whipped for wrong doings. I both agree and disagree with corporeal punishment. I think sometimes it is necessary,(but only when the child is between the ages of two to three and a half and definitely not after four years of age when the child has enough understanding of speech and awareness of wrong doing versus right) but I lean more towards time out, withdrawal of privileges and isolation than the physical punishment method.
I think kids should have very clear boundaries set what ever form of punishment is used and the rules should be consistent and the consequences and punishments be consistent.
Kids learn more from positive reinforcement anyway rather than punitive methods. A lot of so called "bad" kids just want attention and rebelling is one way to do it. Better to train them to seek positive reinforcements.

Shalom spanking is a good idea. thanks for your video,