Mr. Good Enough

I don't think the rabbi meant that you should settle for being treated as if you don't exist, or disrespected. I think he meant that a person that you build a marriage with is not the same man that would give you butterflies in your stomach. My understanding was to view the person as perhaps as good, stable, reliable and overall compatibality. Not to base it on "instant attraction".

one does not have to find someone bashert or perfect . However this fsounds like arranged marriages where they learn hopefully to love one another .Maybe if lucky. If there is not true love of each other as they are ,it will not workout and both will be miserable and worse and any offsprping will be unhappy /disfunctional.
if you mean settling in material and occupational terms you have the wrong ethics to start with.
If you do not have same values and get along and care for each other and have the spark to start it won't end well.
you do not want to marry a friend -platonic relationship.
it is better to be alone than to give up any part of yourself to another who cannot love you as you are.
read some kof drphil's works or video of past shows.

I agree 100% with Myriam. I am 45, never got married, and meantime almoust all my friend got divorced. did they get married for the wrong reason? Did they compromise, but long term they couldn't handle it anymore. Is noe easy to be alone, but easier than to be unhappily married.

I would rather be alone than with a man I did not love - or at least respect! I'm an introvert though and love my own company, and I would prefer to not have children, so I can afford to be picky. And yes, I'm still single... and in my 30s. :)

Better to be married to make a life with someone good enough to be a good friend - drop the requirement for sparks & fireworks or other non-necessities. What a waste of a life to wait & wait for that! I've seen good people grow old & die alone - very sad - unnecessary sacrifice of quality of life & opportunity to grow in ways not possible outside of marriage & family. Sign up to be committed to being some good person's best friend - you'll both be winners! I became a happy bubby by marrying a caring & good, tho far from perfect, man, & thank Hashem always for not letting me grow old alone! We take on the challenge to work on creating our own sparks ...

Let me explain what I saw that made me think like that one line summary. I work with the general public; I saw a lady that came up to my counter and placed her purchases there. As I began to assist her, three items fell from the counter on to the floor. A man that was standing right next to it said to the lady, "three things exactly... fell on the floor" The lady walked from where she was packing her items; to stand next to the man and bent down to pick up what fell. I didn't see him holding anything in his hands so I asked, "how may I help you?" She after walking back to begin packing again, said, "he's with me." and as if this wasn't shocking enough, she finished packing her items and he left for the car; I took the opportunity to compliment her on her iron clad patience with that nightmare of a man. Her reply, what? ??? I've been tolerating that man for twenty years. (I asked the Lord of Israel to bless her a thousand years after his pathetic life.) Did you dare to think that his behavior stopped there? Think again, He came with the car; she stepped out toward the car and started to put all her purchases in the trunk and back seat of the car; while he was sitting in the car looking away from where his wife was struggling with the packages as she was going back and forth. I was amazed at his outrages behavior. She explained that she just got use to it. I ask ya, did she settle?
If I had to dare settle for something like that, I think I would rather die. It would be preferable that I jump into a pool of skin peeling acid head first down to my feet instead. Now, what made me more sick? (That they were both Jews) I'm sorry Rabbi; I always listen to your advices; but today won't be one of them. That lady that gave this advice is crazy. I will never read her book.

i was young when i married my husband,only eighteen, i have 3 daughters(my angels). we just recently divorced its the best solution for our union. i would say that i settled because we didnt get enough time to learn about one another we didnt speak of the future (a)how to raise our children. (b)where to live,school zone. (c) how not to go to bed mad. (d) how to love and RESPECT one another,etc..... we were both young and we didnt let our relationship grow and mature with us as we got older. we turned away from one another and went our separate ways. he changed completely he became selfish and only lived his live the way he wanted to forgetting that he had a family. when you settle you have to make sure you settle for the right reasons otherwise it wont last no matter how hard you try to save your family. there has to be an undersdanding for both parties envolved.

I have a friend who is forever telling me to change my criteria, to settle. One night i dreamed that I did marry the type of guy that she wanted to set me up with...and later that night I couldn't have sex with him! When I woke up, I realized that with my luck I'd meet Mr. Right AFTER I had married Mr.OK. that of course would lead to bad fellings, maybe adultery. So I decided to continue looking for Mr. RIGHT, not to settle. And I hope that the man who marries me does so because he's crazy about me, not because he's settling.

I was running away from serious relations with young men because I had been deeply hurt one time. After that experience I more or less used people or cared little about potential husbands. I instead focused on a singing career in San Francisco. Then I met a hippie part time worker, loafer, goofie guy at a resturant in the middle of the night. Yes, we are opposites and he is white and I am AM. Indian. We clash, and I am dominate and he is passive. But I settled down with him because he was so honest and kind to me. He looked me in the eyes and was so interested in how I was doing. We both had alot of growing up to do. We did it and have 2 grown sons. We have been married 30 yrs now dispite me starting the fire works. He commented recently how I am hard to live with..... I just smiled and grinned at him.... Take time to be a friend to someone who really needs you !

before lisa gottlieb was even born this was known!
the talmud writes: tav m'limaisav tan du, m'limaisav armilu!
which means that; a woman would rather live with companionship than to live as though widowed (alone)!!!
and like Rani wrote ,if you think a little more deeply into it, than you'll realize what's important & what isn't!

As a man without a portfolio or a high powered job who has faced a great deal of rejection, I suppose this is a good thing. I remember when I was small wondering if the girl I was going to spend the rest of my life with had been born yet or if I would know her when I saw her. Sounds a little silly now that I'm nearly 40 and never married. Being a potential "settle fer" doesn't exactly build my confidence either. Maybe I should just stay single.

Oh, I can just imagine the conversation: "You're not really my type and I would have preferred someone better than you but I don't want to wait around forever so what the heck, let's get married, we all have to settle some time right?" Okay, I'm not so dense as to think one should actuallly verbalize these sentiments however, how would you feel about marrying someone knowing that they felt this way about you? I doubt you would marry someone knowing this. Settling is just a horrible word to use. I would suggest that people contemplate more deeply on what is important to them in a spouse but if you walk to the chupah feeling like you're settling it'll only go downhill from there. I am about to celebrate my twelfth wedding anniversary and I am hopelessly in love with my husband who is totally not my type but trust me I did not settle.

What if you are not sexually attracted to Mr. Good Enough? And Mr. Good Enough has a big sexual appetite and expects enthusisam? I am 40 and alone but I couldn't marry someone I wasn't attracted to. He would eventually cheat or divorce me anyway for not keeping my side of the bargain (I know myself well enough to know I can't fake it for rest of my life, I'd end up hating the person.) Nobody ever addresses this, meanwhile we live in a culture that emphasises sex above all else.

the gemara tells us this!
'tav l'meitav tan du ml'meitav arm'lu'
i think that means that it is much better for a woman to be with someone than for her to be alone! (and it doesn't mean a cat- it means a man!)

Appreciated!!

Of course women should settle. What's the alternative? Being single? Not having a husband and children and a home when others do? Just because a guy isn't as educated or clever or making as much money as you, what is the alternative? I guess I settled but we've been married for over 20 years with four children. The thought of being single without children waiting for Mr. Right, the Jewish American Prince, I had no alternative. Going from boyfriend to boyfriend, waiting, no more.

Thank G-d I took your advice 39 years ago. It was the same advice I gave mystelf. I realized that I wanted my children to have a kind father. I had a kind husband and they had a kind father.

The first thing that comes to mind is the gemara in kiddushin which teaches us that "tov lemaysiv ton du milimaysiv armilu" it is better to sit with another body than to sit alone" meaning, even if that 'other body' is not "perfect".

Obviously there are certain personality types to which we all find ourselves incompatible to, and, as individuals, we are entitled to say "no".
But with regard to other points that are not [that] important - settle now or forever hold your piece.

I once heard Rabbi Hershel Schechter of YU speak at a singles gathering and his advice to the men was, "When you need a pair of shoes - get a pair of shoes. You don't have to shop the world over for the best possible pair of shoes."

First of all, I wonder what his wife would say regarding these sentiments.

Ladies, having been there and done that, true, maybe you don't need a pair of Gucci's when a pair of loafers would do (no pun intended?) but at the very least, make sure there aren't any holes in the bottom.

Make sure you know yourself well enough before you decide what's good enough.

It is hard at first. I have become very content alone.

There is a great difference in being alone and being lonely. I enjoy my solitude but I am not lonely......there is a difference.

I think the word settling is not the right word. Comprimise is fine if each party is fullfilled with it. We all settle for some things but settling for a mate not quite suited to one is not productive. We all have our differences but we can accept the differences and celebrate the similarities as should be in all relationships.

If we truly love ourselves then we can love our mate without reservations. My wife and I have been married for fourty four years with the bumps and trials that comes with all married people but we will not allow the other to settle for something that is not right for him or her.

Chasing the rainbow of forever soul mate and happiness with only one??? Out of 6 billion people on earth and counting and there is only one absolute match for me?? Not likely, love the one you win as the song goes. As long as you have God, love,communication, trust, and forgiveness in your love relationship or as a matter of fact other relationships and everything falls in to perfect order and understanding. Fail in one and the relationship is out of balance.
Settle for the one that you can share the above list with and you have found your match, even if he or she isn't the perfect love machine, or Mr/Ms super provider or rocks your world or as the young folk say, "is not all that". They always say it with such attitude....I love it!!!
Life is like a marathon, settle for the one most likely to make you happy at the end of the race. :+)

Settling" is a misnomer for a torah virtue. We are taught to find our ezer kenegdo: a good person, a kind person with strong moral fiber who is a bnai torah. It is the media who fools us into thinking that we must marry our "true love" who romances us and solves all our problems. Judaism tells us that our besheret should be our teammate who helps us navigate the twists and turns of life as we build a family together. What Gottleib refers to as "settling" is actually an eschewing of the true-love fable and an acceptance of a good, kind and reliable partner in the business of life, love, and building a family. Through her sardonic humor, Gottleib is surrepticiously evoking the same advice of our Sages.

I married a very kind, nice, solid man. We had 2 sons, and I found myself miserable, both in the marriage and in myself. Unlike #6 above, we divorced. I never remarried, but raised my boys as a single mom. It's now 40 years later. I can't imagine being married to my ex-husband, or to anyone. Some people just can't do it.

My true feeling is somewhat in agreement with the above comments. My late husband was sick for a very long time and I thought when I started dating (only Jewish) that the perfect,right man was going to walk into my front door. After, many frogs, misfits, lost men came through my dating life, I met a man so different than I, it is wonderful. Why does it have to be what I made up in my head, why couldn't it be different, and so much fun?
I am with a man my age, raised 1/2,1/2 and he is really very well read and very political. I am not, I am a cartaker(sp.ed.teacher), a president of a reform congregation, a volunteer for many causes, etc...our worlds have now joined and it is wonderful. I am not looking for marriage, but a life mate to accompany me through this part of my journey of life.
rosely

To Anonymous, who dropped a relationship with someone because he deserves more:

I think only G-d can decide what someone deserves. Also, how do you know that that is what he needs? There are so many areas in life where one can be rewarded. Perhaps someone will marry a women who does not love him so completely and fully as romance novels dictate is possible...but she is a good wife, and creates a pleasant home for him, and is a good mother to his children. Is this not "good-enough"? Perhaps in this way he will have a more fulfilling life, with proud moments and joy from his family, perhaps more so than if he had married a woman who loved him totally, but was inadept, wild, and unstable....who knows?

I am sorry for the caring and loving person you have dropped. Perhaps he doesn't want what you think he ought to have. Only G-d knows the answer to that.

better to be alone or settle? the question is rigged. were being alone or settling the only two options, i have a feeling the overwhelming majority of respondents would prefer the latter. however, this is not how one experiences the decision. one wonders whether someone in the future would fulfill her ideals more fully, and whether mr. right now is just in the way of finding mr. right. the risk involved is between the sure thing - mr. okay to good - and the unknown - mr. wonderful.

of course from the jewish perspective, one should settle. individual happiness, romance, and sexual bliss are alien notions to the religious ideal, which emphasizes family, community, and tradition. and indeed one that settles may find their aspiration for fulfillment in their children.

to answer this question then, one must ask herself what is more consistent with fer own values. often, one will find a lack of clarity, even outright contradiction. then the hard work of introspection must begin - one must choose one's values, and choose an identity. or not, and one can continue to wander around in darkness.

I think this is a very profound question: namely, settling for someone who is not the love of one's life. I do know many women in this situation and their choices do vary. it's a wise thing to consider the pros and cons of all of this, and surely this is true of the man also. This is not a one-way street, and hopefully, choices made do not bring one to "dead ends". For us all, of course, ultimately it is a "dead end". But in the meantime, what is happiness? We do often grow into relationships and even those, apparently made in heaven, we often grow out of. That is another kind of settling. Do we leave or do we stay and go our separate ways within the relationship? Relationship issues are deep and always worth another discussion. I applaud this because it opens us to new ways of thinking. I don't think, however, that one size truly fits all. Each story is different, and as spoken, it is not clear that the person one settles with is not "one's beshert". God does move in mysterious ways.

I just read the Gottlieb piece and it provides plenty of food for thought.

As a frum, married woman with many, many single friends, I'm confused too about what to say if ever my advice is sought. I do believe in "settling" if that means ditching unreasonable expectations of romance-novel fireworks in favor of a more realistic view of love and marriage as teamwork and mutual respect. But I also wouldn't advise anyone to marry a person they don't like or don't feel at all attracted to; that's just courting misery.

I think that's why religious women and men are more willing to submit to quasi-arranged marriages and to marry after relatively short courtships: we have been conditioned to think of marriage as a precurser to starting a family. Hence we look for spouses with similar world views and goals. We don't look primarily for romantic hunks with whom we can spend long hours alone. Lisa Gottlieb makes a similar point in her article: now that she's approaching middle age, she wants a family more than she wants romance.

I'd advise young women (and men) to think in terms of family instead of only marriage. Most people do want a family eventually, and relationships do change and become more pedestrian in the face of these concerns. Knowing that might alter what you look for in a date.

So by all means look for someone you connect with, respect, and like very, very much. ("Settling" should never preclude having a strong connection with your partner!) But if you're looking for a husband or wife so you can have a family, perhaps try to find someone who will make a good parent and companion, instead of only thinking in terms of long, romantic evenings when it's just the two of you. (If you do have kids, you'll spend much more time together as a family than out on dates with your spouse.) My final advice? Go to the Atlantic Monthly's website and read Lisa Gottlieb's article too!

What you may be experiencing is a breakdown in communication. Married people sometimes forget to set time aside -- add the "fiz" back by bringing in family and/or friends for a meal, shabbos-- make time for each other -- find something he does like to do, perhaps talk to a rabbi or a close confidant. Take time out for you. Spruce up the meals, an evening where the kids are out of the house. Try to engage in conversation.

The Torah says to the man -- do not forget the wife of your youth. Women need love and men need respect. Sometimes we all get into a rut and women can be great help mates which is our assigned role. There are books that can help you.

Rabbi Saloman can give you some great tips to help you turn this around.

In Psychology classes they teach that happiness is a state of mind, and there are things that we can do ourselves to change us to help us cope. We can't change other people, but we can certainly influence them.

The Rabbi has a lot of expertise in this area to help you nuture your marriage and teach your partner to be part of this process.

The best to you and some of us readers are saying tefillos for you for encouragement and uplifting of your spirit and where you can come to an inner peace.

I would like to ask Rav Salomon why he presents the 'settlement' issue as a women problem. Why is it Mr good enough and not Miss good enough? Baruch ashem, I am happily married to a wonderful man. But I share the daily pain and disappointment of several girlfriends in their thirties who are constantly reminded that time is running short and they should better settle for any jewish guy who can breathe and isn't a serial killer.
My impression (with all the limits of making a generalisation)is that, despite the more romantic approach in the surface, women tend to be a lot more realistic and concrete about what they are looking for in a partner. On the other hand, many batchelors don't accept to settle because, deep inside, they believe that time in never up for them and that there is surely a more beautiful, younger, more appealing single woman waiting for them around the corner. Pointing out that it is women who need to 'settle' contributes to prepetuate this unhealthy pattern.

I think the good rabbi is confusing two things. First, he is correct that your life partner may not be the most physically attractive person. Indeed, recent problems in the news show that being married to a Britney, Paris, or Lyndsey may not be a great experience.

Marrying someone who is smart,kind, loving, and compassionate is probably easier and more fulfilling. Getting that one person with whom you have a strong connection can be hard but is worth the wait.

I have been married for 14 years and i am still alone, why don't you talk about unhappy marriages? what are we supposed to do when you don't love your spouse anymore because he is inadequate, unattrative, unintelligent and you did not notice it during shidduch?
espacially when you have children,what are we expected to do according Torah?

Will you Marry Me? Well, Yes I believe I will marry you. I'm not madly, passionately in love with you. But you are a decent enough person. I admire your fine qualities. I guess I can settle and you will be "good enough" for me.
Oh My, Would you like to be the man who heard those words. OR...as a woman, would I marry someone who said those words to me. Even if I didn't say that I was settling.... is it fair for me to marry him without my having those feelings of love and excitement about him? Doesn't he deserve better that my having settled for him? If he is a nice man, he deserves being loved to the fullest by a woman who thinks he is the only man in the world for her. Every being deserves those feelings from their spouse.
I know that not everyone in the world will ever have that privilege of being loved in so deep a way, but I would be ashamed of preventing that from happening for him, be it next week or next year. Isn't that taking something away from him?
And I know that sometimes love can grow over time and the union might become the most lasting and deep love that either could imagine for their lifetime.
What if it doesn't happen that way Rabbi Saloman? What if he lives and does his best to be a good husband and never receives that overwhelming love from me. Ever! I am afraid he would suffer and that I would be forever guilty and ashamed for settling for him.
Thank you for the question. It is exactly what I am wrestling with currently. I have said goodbye to a very caring and loving person, because he deserves more than what I am feeling for him.
It will be interesting to hear comments from those who have gone through this very difficult decision.

I am a 36 year old single woman. I think "settling" is a cultural construct, an idea whose root is very cultural. The biblical idea is a partnership, people; a man a woman, should be "equally yoked". This idea of oxen plowing/working in the field is similar to the idea of a man and a woman forming a partnership to construct a home. Therefore the oxen team should be very compatible. "Settling" implies that somehow the "yoke" is not equal but as long as the oxen are pulling along, things will be fine. I just want to say that her argument is logical but not biblical and we must be careful not to buy into things that sound logical without seeing the spiritual wisdom in them. Her thoughts on "settling" almost seem to imply that anyone wanting "equal yoking" is being unreasonably demanding. I totally discard that. Here in Aish.com there was a recent post on a long-time single woman that just got married to a person who was everything she needed. I believe this lady stood on faith and principle. "Settling" just feels very much like an excuse to rush into a relationship just because the amazingly honorable institution of marriage is a noble cause anyway...
I'm alone, I'm waiting for my "equal", not my perfect man, not a knight in shining armor-because I'm not a damsel in distress!! I'm waiting for the right season, circumstances and person who might not be a prince but whom is my "equal" I will not settle for less.

Anyone who has experienced an abusive marriage would probably prefer to be still single. Blessedly, the average marriage is not abusive and I agree that one should not get hung up on fairy-tale perfectionism.

"Settling" is a made-up idea based on the opinion that one can somehow know what it will be like being married to a certain person based on dating a bunch of times. You have know idea. If the person is a good-hearted person, then retroactively, after you've built your home, you will see you didn't settle at all, and you won't be able to imagine having dumped the person and remaining single. Quite harsh? You'll see.

It's not always easy to settle for someone you would be reluctantly "in love" with. Usually, people tend to love someone, but not be in love with them as time goes by...I figure that women ought to settle for the right-enough nice, honest man than marry off someone who lies and fabricates where she later finds out that she was deceived. It's disturbing that some women tend to go for someone of a criminal nature than fall in love with someone who is more decent, nice, and honest. They may eventually regret dating someone who is a compulsive liar thinking that "I wish I could have dated that nicer guy before I met this one". I know there are many stories, especially on NBC's Dateline when it comes to love scams online in "To Catch a Cyber Thief" and meeting someone who lies compulsively like "The Pretender"...It all depends on how two people really get to know each other and have everything out on the table to discuss before making a decision to pursue a relationship and/or marriage. Thus, love smart - not blindly!

I *HIGHLY* recommend reading the original brilliant (and unsettling!) article by Ms. Gottlieb: www.theatlantic.com/doc/200803/single-marry