Testing for Downs Syndrome

We had a child born with autism. Through the help of our rabbi we have come to realize that this happened to us because Hashem loves us. As we continued working on our bitachon our child has made remarkable progress. Don't for one second think it's been easy but we have seen Hashem hand helping us all the way. This is a very difficult subject but our experiences with our son have made us better people and have grown through it. Not to mention we have he most amazing son

i don't really think you can compare spina bifida and hydrocephlus with autism. seriously.

your comment makes light of autism. research exactly what severe autism is like before you make comments like that.

Your story sounds identical to ours. Amazing. Keep strong!

I read that a rabbi once counseled an individual who was confronted with a debilitating illness. The patient was considering various treatments and discussed the success rates of those procedures with the Rabbi. His response was that everything is G-d's will and to believe in statistics is heresy. That line struck home, because I was 25 years old when my first born child suffered a stroke in utero and today my child has cerebral palsy and struggles with many functions. That was the day that my life underwent a major change at a young age.So in reality, G-d has a master plan for each of us.

What is drifting around at the edge of my thoughts is this...might this be something, that in the future might be used for not so noble purposes? If the results were to be "positive" for Down's...would this give a government or whomever a reason to "strongly suggest" or at some point in the future, force the termination of such a pregnancy? History recalls many forms of evil beginning under the guise of something "good", improving the lifestyle of people, an advancement in technology, whatever. Not a judgement call for anyone, but quite possibly a wake-up call for many. I agree with Rabbi...TMI. Just gives me an uncomfortable feeling.

I completely agree with your well stated comment.

I have a 7 year old niece who has Down Syndrome. Because of this my family has participated in some Up With Downs Buddy Walks and have met other Down Syndrome children. They are WONDERFUL! There is a family who attends our assembly and they have a 7 year old Down Syndrome daughter. Because my family and I have personal experience with Down Syndrome children this little girl has been accepted with open arms and has become such a joy to the rest of the congregation. She gets up and woships and dances. When they leave she has to make sure she gives hugs all around. And she loves our rabbi! This acceptance has broken down walls her family had put up. The best way this test should be used is to prepare the parents, not so they can destroy the child. Down Syndrom children are NOT stupid. Our niece had learned sign language at 2 years of age. I couldn't do that as an adult! These children are intelligent but they may be a bit slower in developing certain skills. Many of the adults with Down Syndrome I have met function very well. When a couple learns they may have a Down Syndrome child they should be put in touch with a Down Syndrome support group, like Up With Downs. I knew a couple who had a DS child so when my brother learned their first child may have DS I put them in touch with that couple and they got them in touch with Up With Downs. They have made great friends and have a wonderful support network. I think what a loss if would have been if my niece had been aported, or the little girl in our congregation. They can teach us so much if we only allow them. They can love unconditionally. So maybe they aren't the "handicapped" ones.

One more important thing to realize about the new test. The amniocentesis test itself carries a risk of miscarriage, with some studies reporting the risk as high as 1%. The new test is a simple blood test of the mother's blood, which carries virtually zero risk to the baby. Between the greater accuracy of the new test and the fact that it poses no risk to the embryo, without doing a real statistical analysis, it's very possible that there will be a net gain in the number of fetal lives saved.

As the father of THE most adorable child who happens to have a few extra chromosomes I would say that, personally, I would have been fine if this test were available to us. My wife was 46 when our son was born and we had both worked with special children, so we were very aware of the higher probability of having baby with Down Syndrome. And though our backgrounds allowed us to immediately and lovingly accept our new son, it still would have been a benefit to us to have known in advance. Beyond that, there are certain medical issues to which DS babies are prone, some of which can even be treated in-utero. There's no question that this test will result in a huge leap in the abortion of babies with Down Syndrome. Of course that saddens me, as I know how truly special these people can be. Yet, I will never judge another for the decisions they make in this area. Whether it's "good" or "bad" is quite irrelevant since it is now a reality. I also, don't think it's a question of too much information. I've seen many DS children, yes even from frum families, who were literally left in the hospital. And like I said, there are "good" things people can do with the information. The idea of "playing God" can be applied to anything in the medical field. Dor Yeshorim has virtually eliminated the births of a whole of host of "less than perfect" children, yet there's certainly an aspect of "playing God" in interfering with Shidduchim in order to prevent these births. While Jewish law does not encourage abortion, it certainly allows for it for a host of reasons. Information is the currency of Psak, and it's hard to say that you can have too much of it. There will probably be fewer kids with DS in the world as a result of this, but the ones who are born will be wanted, loved and their parents will be all the more prepared to give them every advantage possible.

Menachem, thank you for your response. I think it considers the halichic, moral, emotional strengths and weakenss unique to each situation and family and I think that, that is absolutely critically before judging a family on the "pro choice" pro life" references, I certainly cannot analyse the strengths and weaknesses in individuals to determine wheteher they can cope with the challnges these very special people have, neither can some of the "anti abotionists" who have commented on here, to those who have been able to proceed with a pregnancy and raise children with special needs KUDOS ! Let us not impose our values and capabilities on others who may not have the emotional / physical capacity to raise children with challenges.

To those who think it is better to abort a baby who has Down syndrome I ask: "What would you do if one of your "normal", older children were in a car accident and became paralyzed? Kill them so they are not a burden to your family?

It's difficult to make a sweeping statement as to whether it's okay to test for any disease or not. If we try to second guess G-d, we could be asking for trouble. If by doing the test you are going to decide whether or not to terminate the pregnancy, you're taking G-d's plan out of the picture. If you remove one challenge, who's to say that G-d won't provide you with a different, more difficult one. If you test because you want to be prepared for any eventuality, then you're reinforcing your acceptance of G-d's will. Things may not change, but maybe that was the challenge to begin with. G-d is always changing things. We never know exactly what has been changed when things remain hidden. Our best bet, is to pray for G-d's mercy and guidance, and leave the big decisions up to G-d. Having said all that, I wouldn't presume to judge someone else's choice. Having any child changes your life, having ones with special needs, even more so. Having a child born with a fatal illness is devastating. Although Down's is not usually fatal, there are varying degrees to the syndrome. Often it is accompanied by heart and other medical issues. Knowing beforehand should be a personal choice, but tests have been "wrong" many times. All the Best, Shmuel

This topic really touches me as my last birth was to a down syndrome child who is now 2 1/2 years old. It's true at first I was disappointed, scared and felt helpless but all of this was from ignorance. With time I have learned a lot and one thing is for sure our down syndrome child is more perfect than a lot of "normal" people. He has brought so much love and joy into our family and is a true teacher for us all. Down syndrome people have the right to live like everyone else, they are G-d's gift to us if we just open our hearts and demolish our prejudice. This test is sick and really mans way of "playing" G-d, but as we are no where near G-d's perfection I think we all just need to be happy with all the blessings and gifts he gives us continually and try a little bit less to interfere.

I commented earlier about have a prenatal diagnosis late in pregnancy. For a number of different reasons my Rav and doctor found it the right thing to do to confirm a diagnosis of down syndrome. I was given 50% odds before the amino that the baby had down syndrome. In retrospect it was a very good thing for me to have a little time (about a week and a half) to know that the baby had down syndrome. This gave me time to start to grieve who my baby would not be and celebrate what she would be. So a prenatal blood test is not a bad thing. From a medical standpoint a prenatal diagnosis might be a good thing because there are things that can be done prenatally (fix heart conditions) and immediately after birth that need to be done. From an emotional standpoint, it might help the family accept the diagnosis, prepare for medical issues, and start to love the child for whom she or he might be. However, a prenatal diagnosis to abort the baby is not a good reason to have the blood test. But 90% of people with the prenatal diagnosis do abort and that is very sad state of our society.

Rabbi- i think you missed the point. As a mother who recently (October) gave birth to a girl with down syndrome and a prenatal diagnosis shortly before birth, I have give thought to the issue. It is not a question of too much information, it is a question of what to do with the information. NINETY PERCENT of babies with a prenatal diagnosis are aborted (killed?). When I was told at 22 weeks that my baby had a 10% chance of having down syndrome, I was offered to have an abortion. While the thought did not cross my mind that I would raise the daughter Hashem gave me, many people don't make the same choice (90%). That is the real question that should be examined.

I have a ten year old daughter with Down syndrome. I refused prenatal blood tests because I was 39 and knew I would be harassed by my OB into an amnio if abnormalities were detected. I knew nothing would convince me to abort my baby, however, many women aren't so sure, and this type of information comes with strong pressure from health care workers to abort. Very few offer the woman full informed consent although many parents like myself have made a concerted effort to offer information both on the internet and in my book "A Special Mother is Born" 34 stories from parents of special needs children. IF we are going to offer MaterniT21 we have a moral obligation to offer such positive information as you cited, that parents rarely regret giving birth to a special needs child, in fact we can't imagine life without them. I pray that more parents facing a pre-natal diagnosis will also be given information about the amazing research advances for the cognitive delays associated with Down syndrome, and the happiness which those with extra chromosomes experience and spread everywhere. They are the Almighty's gift to our culture and must be welcomed with love and gratitude.

I think this would have been hitler's dream come true: another 'efficient way' to rid the world of a 'substandard' human being. May HaShem help us if we think this is a wonderful new medical development. What will we be testing for next?

Rabbi Salomon hit the nail on the head ! I fully agree, having treated many patients / multiple families with Down's syndrome children. Some of the nicest, most cohesive, loving families ever !

As the mother of a delightful son with Down syndrome, I can attest to what Rabbi Salomon said: our children with DS bring great joy to their families and to those whose lives they touch. However, my concern about early pre-natal testing is not whether it is a good or bad thing to know ahead of time whether the baby one carries has Down syndrome, but rather about the decisions to abort. There are people out there who want to 'make' Down syndrome extinct. That is what is horrifying. I cannot imagine a world without individuals who have Down syndrome. They are everything that the word 'goodness' encompasses and more. The true ramifications of this test, which is to rid the world of Down syndrome, kinda' makes me think about something that shook the world about 70 years ago, when somebody evil wanted to rid the world of Jews...

firstly, everyone should make their own decision- with the aid of a competent Rabbi who knows Torah and Medicine. Second, after reading the comment below, my thoughts are the following. Hashem went to all the nations with the Torah and asked who wanted it. Each nation asked for what was in it and when told, they decided against it. Only The Jews were intelligent enough to realize that if G-d said it is good, that it must be good, and we humans are not capable of judging. So we accepted the Torah- we will do and then we will hear. If Hashem says something is good for us, then it is. even if it is painful. How do we know if this is what Hashem wants? by asking the Rabbis who study Torah day and night if this is teh will of G-d. same as with deciding to go on birth-control, if we have to give honor to an abusive parent etc. each case is individual, but there are guidelines out there. and we have to belief and have as much faith as we can so that eventually we can put our faith fully into what G-d has in store for us and just be happy with what we are given.

How is this test different from the tests done by Dor Yeshorim?

dor yisharim tests for genetic diseases that kill children in a young age. downs syndrome is not a disease. and dor yisharim doesnt deal with abortions. it stops the possibility of a disease. and, it has the backing of great rabbis.

the difference between this is that dor yesharim tests before the meetin if you carry chromosones from different diseases. the 2 results are matched, and a possible sad situation can be avoided. testing after you are married and pregnant is very different. if a test comes back positive, then some people play G-d, and decide to terminate the life inside

Twenty years ago I had a blood test screening and was supposed to have a "normal" baby. When he was born I loved him, nursed him, and although I suspected he was Downs, bonded to my baby. A week later it became more obvious that he had a heart defect that would need open heart surgery and the issue of Downs became secondary. I gave birth to a baby. You don't hear of many parents leaving their other kids with disabilities at the hospital because it usually takes a while to figure out your child is not "perfect", and enough time has gone by for you to bond to your child and not to the disability. There are no guarantees in life, your perfect child can chas vshalom get sick and require lots of energy and time. You don't hear of kids with cancer blamed for all the energy they are taking away from their siblings. You can't look at any child and see what they will become. Today our son is about to get married to our adopted daughter who was given up by her birth parents because they did not feel they could raise her . She reads, writes, does math beyond three digits, and folds diapers in the intensive care nursery at Rambam hospital. I look at her and wonder what was so bad here that her birthmother could not raise her? We have been blessed to raise four individuals who experience Downs, none of them are low functioning because we never felt sorry that they were born and supported their potential. Thank you Rabbi for bringing this topic up.

We also have a (Downs) son who is taking music lessons, learning in Mesivta, Davening for the Umid Shabbos and even slichos. Would like to discuss the marriage topic with you. I can be reached at ichagm @gmail,com.

I can be reached at chaya2426@gmail.com

Pure evil. did not Hilter iliminated all the children that were handicapped and all mentally ill people? I am afraid Hilter is alive and well. Who do we ilnmated next ,elderly depressed etc Does not G-d want us to be patient, charitably. If we illimate all our problems how are we to grow in studies of science to find cues are we not going backwards?.

With greatest respect, rabbi, "TMI" in this case stands for "The Minimal Information." As a parent, you need to know not only if you'll be able to care for a special-needs child but also if someone else will, when you're gone. By the way: Of COURSE the parents of Down Syndrome kids you spoke with say how wonderful they are; they are the ones who chose to raise the child, NOT those who had to put the child in an institution. The sad choice on whether or not to abort, as always, should be left up to the parents, as they are the only ones who know what they can handle.

as far as i understand, abortion is frowned upon, as who gave us the right to play G-d. a competent rav MUST be consulted in these situation

Bad test. Allows mother to develop fears, and thoughts not healthy for bonding of mother and child. My child should have been put in an institution (per doctor). She has Down's and is now 27, and has touched so many people's lives.She is very graceful in dance and flags. Even with all the problems and challenges we have had with her, I can't imagine life without her.You get what you get, make the best of it. There is a reason she is here.

As a sibling since I'm 11, (my brother is 48) I can tell you that that just as with everything that Hashem sends our way, we can deal with this as well. As one person commented, there are much worse troubles out there than have a child with Down's Syndrome! (By the way, financially, they are entitled to benefits from the government.)

I do not believe that we are playing G-d if we develop new methods of medical diagnosis. And while at times (very few times) we can make a mistake, we more often than not can diagnose Down's syndrome. Parents who had a child with a serious illness still love their kids. But most would rather have a healthy child. I am a mother and I do not want my child to have any chronic health concerns, even the smaller ones. Am I crazy? No. I know once I am gone, my adult child will have to take care of herself/himself. If they are healthy, they will do so with success. If a child has mental health issues, they will not thrive. I do not want that. And many other parents don't either. But what we need is a choice.

Can we ever have too much information? I think not. It's always good to be informed. The question is not the information; it's what we do with this information. Deciding whether or not to bring a Down's child into this world is actually fairly complicated and may be impacted by family circumstances. E.G. - How old are the parents? More Down's children are born to older parents than to younger ones. If the parents are, say, in their 40's, who will care for this individual after the parents are too old to do so or have left this world? Are there siblings? Is it fair to burden these siblings with the care of their handicapped brother or sister? On the other hand, I've known Down's kids, and they truly are typically loving, good-hearted individuals. The first one I ever knew was able to learn to read and write and functioned quite well. Others will never be able to care for themselves on even the most basic level. Just like "normal" human beings, there's a significant range of intelligence levels among Down's people. All I'm saying is that this is not a simple decision. But if, all things considered, a couple decides to abort such a fetus, it's better to do so earlier than later. Therefore, I think this test is a good thing. The halachik issue per se should, of course, be discussed, as mentioned in the video, with a competent rabbi, including all the specific circumstances of that particular family, but in the final analysis, it is that family who will have to live forever after with this decision, and that decision will rest between them and G-d.

Judy, I totally agree, the final analysis should rest with the family, who are in the best decision to determine the impact of a dependant child to adult on their resources, be that emotional, physical and financial, it is critical to remember that the dynamic of individuals and families differ.

I agree with all that the Rabbi said but I would like to see people use person first language when referring to people who happen to have Down syndrome(this is the correct spelling of the diagnosis). And, yes, this is a medical diagnosis, just like cancer or cerebral palsy or any other diagnosis. One doesn't hear babies referred to as cancerous babies or cerebral palsy babies so why would one refer to a baby as a Downs baby or Down syndrome child? The disability does not define the person. If we are all made in the image of God, we are all normal. We are what we are supposed to be and we are all equally important. A person who happens to have Down syndrome is the same as any other person and should not be referred to by their medical diagnosis. There is a wonderful website: disabilityisnatural.com with wonderful articles that address this and other issues in a more articulate way than I address them. I also happen to have a beautiful 26 year old daughter, who has Down syndrome, and I could not have asked for a better addition to our family. She has made us all into better people and if every family had a child with Down syndrome, the world would be a much better place to live in. You don't know what you are missing!!!!!!!!!

When a child is born you love that child with all your heart no matter what. Every child deserves love and caring. No one is perfect and some intelligent capable individuals can turn out to be sociopaths and a downs syndrome individual can turn out to be a loving kind person. Who would you rather be around, a sociopath or a loving person no matter what their capabilities are?

Rabbi Salomon, What are your thoughts about genetic screenings? If a couple is made aware that they are both carriers of a debilitating genetic disease and they have the opportunity to avoid having children affected with the disease, should they undergo the screening?

The important issue here is that of choice. Not everyone is financially or emotionally equipped to deal with a mentally handicapped child, and a test that is far more accurate and far less invasive than amniocentesis is, in my opinion, a wonderful advance. If certain parents decide, for religious reasons or otherwise, that they would not abort such a fetus (or any fetus) under any circumstances, then they can decline to have the test done in the first place. That's their right. For the rest, I don't see any downside, and I think that calling the test results "TMI" is, frankly, ridiculous.

I had amniocentesis when I was expecting my second child. I was in my mid-30's. The typical reaction from the frum crowd was "what a horrible thing -- to consider aborting a less-than-perfect baby." EXCEPT: That's now why my husband and I had the testing done. We are middle-class but far from rich, and unlike many in the frum community, we don't have a large, close family with lots of siblings and grandparents available to help out. We just thought that in the event we were expecting a special needs child, we would want to be as prepared as possible in advance. In fact, when it turned out the baby was fine, we also asked to know the sex. He's now a terrific (most of the time) teenaged boy. And again, for us, it was helpful to be able to plan a bris (on our own) in advance instead of having to deal with rushing around to get it together 8 days after a somewhat difficult delivery. Don't criticize others if you haven't walked in their shoes.

My practice has a large number of families with Downs Syndrome children. I have had an unusual number of Downs people in my life, for decades. There are many wonderful individuals, and some parents that impress me enormously, with their middle-aged children living happily at home, while they, themselves are aged. But what is far more common, are Downs chldren institutionalized (special care, group homes), and families severely damaged and dividing, unable to cope with the strain of a Downs child. Generally family crisis occurs when the child is about eighteen months old. I have spent a great deal of time in schools with Downs children who spend their entire lives in pain, in institutions, unable to do more than follow a flashlight with their eyes. You don't see this in the TV commercials showing only the happy, adjusted Downs individuals. There is a huge range of Downs people, from the completely disabled with no discernible cognition, to those of normal intelligence. The tests don't tell you that part--only if the fetus is Downs. So I feel that each individual needs to make a completely informed choice for themselves, and their family. I love my Downs clients. And I would not, personally, make a choice that even might give someone a life with no mind, no freedom, no understanding, only pain.

Thank you for your input, unaware of just how severe "downs" can be. I know, that I personally would battle toi raise even a slighty depemdant downs child, I personally would also not want to burden my children with the responsibility of raisieng a sibling and i would like to think I would have the strength, to terminate.

A friend who was a religious Catholic and did not believe in abortions, knew she was carrying a child with Downs Syndrome, had the girl, loved her dearly, and gave her everything possible to maximize her life. Her second pregnancy showed she was again carrying a child with Downs Syndrome and with sadness she chose an abortion. Other friends who were anti-abortion kindly felt that she was in the best position to decide this as she had been through it already. It was not TMI for her.

It's going to be very soon that when you see a family with a down's syndrome child you will know instantly that they're religious (Christian or Jewish) because everybody else will have aborted. Now is that TMI at first glance?

Very difficult subject. Very difficult choice to have to make, and to have to make with no actual knowledge of what the full consequences of either will really be on the persons having to make it. AS to making choices in general, I highly recommend watching (or just listening to) this talk by Professor Barry Schwartz from Swarthmore College about the what effects (burden?) increased choice can have and is having in our society today. Its a talk he gave to the marketing department employees at GOOGLE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy8R5TZNV1A

I believe that the drain on the family that a child with disabilities presents is way understated. While the child himself is a precious gift from God and parents do love the child, the negative impact which includes a mammoth expenditure of time and money is not stressed nearly enough when pregnancy termination is under discussion. Everyone in the family suffers, especially the other children who must share resources ( I don't mean just financial). Parents are spent and the member who needs the strength, energy, time, patience, resources etc.burdens the entire family. Were one to have an early detection for Downs and a termination of pregnancy, the parent could go on to have healthy children who could care for others who are already in being ( to lighten the burdens of others should they be so inclined). Having healthy normal children is a top priority in my book and if an early Downs detection test is available, I say go for it.

As a parent of a child with Downs, i can't disagree with you more strongly. Everyone gains. Yes its a challenge, just as it's a challenge to deal with any child -- EVERY child has special needs. Many of our friends with 'normal' children are dealing with far greater issues than we are. There is no such thing as a perfect child, no such thing as controlling circumstances so they fit our comfort level. Accept what the Almighty delivers to you with joy, and you';ll see you and the entire family will grow in love, patience and tolerance. Lastly, most prospective parents lack the positives in order to truly approach the decision objectively. If they would meet our son, experience our nachas , without a doubt they'd choose to go ahead. Life is not meant to be easy; it's meant to be meaningful.

I completely agree ! The reality is that special needs children, are dependant their entire lives and may outlive their parents, it is not fair to burden thier siblings with the responsibility of financiing and looking after them.

I have a sibling with Down Syndrome and completely disagree. I went through stages where I really resented having a sibling with special needs, but as I got older I realized that it was the best thing that could have happened to me. The lessons I learned from him completely outweigh any other negative effects.

G-d has given us this knowledge and the information to be used wisely and carefully. It is not always a noble endeavor to raise a severely handicapped child, and often breaks the family, the caretaker, and the often adorable baby, who may well need constant care as an adult. There is no one answer to this, but these tests are available to us now for a reason and can be used to avoid a lifetime of pain and suffering, for everyone involved.

Well said Miriam, we all have strengths an weaknesses an none of us shoul dictate "capacity an ability" to others, the choice is a personal one and should be respected not criticised.

you make a wonderful point, miriam. i was born with a severely disabling and rare genetic condition (not down syndrome). i do wish my parents had known prior to my birth and well- i just feel i would have been better off aborted. i will never be able to enjoy life or live independantly. i have the constant worry of- what if my parents die? i am not in support of abortion in general- but in cases like mine where quality of life is severely affected, i believe abortion can be more kind.

I have one question for you, do you believe in God? If we believe in God, we believe everything he does is for a reason. I have a sibling with Down Syndrome and although I would not have chosen it, it is the greatest thing that ever happened to me. The way I turned out because I have a sibling with special-needs is not something I would give up for anything. As with any other nisayon, you would not choose it, but God has his plan and does not give anyone a test they can not handle.

I remember the day we walked into the doctors office with our daughter and son. Today is the day we find out if we are having a brother or sister to our family. That day was not quite what we expected. The doctor broke the news to our family in a not so polite way. "99% chance of down syndrome, we need to discuss options here. Excuse me for a moment." My world collapsed. Over the next few days we coped with the results and started to prepare for our new daughter. I tried to block out the anger if how the situation was handled and help my kids understand the special needs that were going to be required. Long story short the tests were wrong and Kari's Atara Cole is special indeed. Inspire of the odds we do Not have a down syndrome child. I agree Rabbi, TMI sometimes is just TMI.

This comment will make the issues even more complicated: Some people with DS can become stars ( e.g. Chris Burke , Lior), while some others have far more severe disability e.g. very low intellectual disability. The latter places even more stress upon the family and individual

1.All three of my pregnancies were tested for "abnormalities", given that I was considered low risk i did not puruse further testing. 2. As a mature woman (40) I would definitely test more abnormalities, i woul want to make an informed decision. 3. Having had a High Risk porgenancy from 12 weeks , whcih threatene my life an for which I was advised to terminate to avoid further risk, I emotionally I was BONDED and I riske my own life to have my son, I have no regrets.... while pregnant, my concern was for my unborn baby and not for myself, husband an teo older children. 4. I have a family member disabled through illness and while I am appreciative of every moment I have with her an I hope to have many, many more years, I have witnessed her struggle and the attitudes of others. I am not certain that I would be able to sanction a life of dependancy on any child , neither could I consciously sanction my oler children to bear the responsibility of a disable child who will become a disabled adult. My head says I would terminate, I am just not so sure I would be able to, if I were in that situstion, the bond between mother and child does not start at birth, it starts way beforehand. I would not be critical of someone who electe to terminate a pregnancy owing to a genetic defect, I have a friend (religious) who terminated a Turners Syndrome baby at 20 weeks.

These are angels, straight from Hashem. Ppl do many things to prevent unwanted items, from painkillers to whatever else, but these are precious children. We can't take those away

My younger brother has down syndrome and is one of the most adorable, special young boys that I know. Although he takes up a lot of time and majority of our families energy, he has added so much to our family and has taught us all so many lessons. We love him and adore him! With all that being said...I cringe when I hear people say "down syndrome child". My brother is a child who happens to be given a challenge by Hashem called down syndrome. Please put my brother and all the special children first! In terms of testing- Baruch Hashem I am now expecting my first child. My dr. offered the testing and my husband and I refused. Just like Hashem blessed us with this pregnancy, Hashem will be the one blessing us with a child IY"H. The child I am carrying is our child and my husband and I will love the child no matter what. People do not chose for their child to be diagnosed with a terminal illness. Hashem decides when someone will have a challenge. Testing and potential choosing to abort is, in my opinion, playing with Hashem's will. Does testing really make a difference anyway? Spend 9months enjoying your pregnancy and the closeness with your spouse- not worrying about all the what ifs. Hashem gives life and Hashem know what you can and cannot handle even if you don't see it right away.

Who are we to say that children with Downs Syndrome are not nornal? Perhaps it is these kind, gentle, children who are the complete human child. Perhaps G-d gifts them the chromosome that gives them these qualities. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Competitive interests and materialistic pursuits are considered by most parents as worthwhile goals for their 'normal' children. Career, Money, Homes, Education, Marriage, are goals their children generally must meet to be considered sucessful by their parents. Happiness isn't seen as a life goal for most of our children. Why? - - Shouldn't it be the most important one? ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I am anti-abortion as a personal choice. And yet, I do understand a woman's right to choose for herself. There are huge and very serious ethics involved here. The early pregnancy testing will almost certainly cause the termination of many more Downs' Syndrome fetuses.

I am a sibling of a child who has Down Syndrome. As a family member, it is very hurtful when people refer to them as Down Syndrome children. He is a child first, who happens to have Down Syndrome. R' Salomon calls the knowledge that a fetus has Down Syndrome "tmi." But as a sibling, I know that we could have been better prepared had we knew early in advance. There are many misconceptions about children with Down Syndrome and because I had not been exposed/prepared it was very hard for me to face the fact that my sibling had Down Syndrome.

With all due respect, your ref;ections are very harsh and judgemental. Please keep in mind that these are still little neshamalas who are people who have down syndrome. Again they are primarily children WHO have down syndrome. Parents today are allowed to make the decision whether or not to have their child, especially that this test is available so early on in pregnancy. The comments on your video are very sensitive and I suggest that you do not make so many judgements in your future videos

Here is a rhetorical question: isn't this forum read primarily by adults? Some topics can not be spoken about without some people being offended, regardless of what is said or written. Nonetheless, if anyone is non-judgemental, it is Rabbi Salomon. Though this surely is a "sensitive" subject, the comments rendered here were not "harsh". If anything, the Rabbi bends over backwards to speak as gently as possible. Some subjects can not be simply 'glossed over'.

B"H In 1990 when I was pregnant with our son , we were told early on, because of a standard blood test, that we had, as the doctor's put it, "a 50% chance that the child would have Down Syndrome>" They urged "termination". We consulted with HaRav Scheinberg who advised us not to do anything except give tzeddaka, and daven. He said that many times the tests were wrong. We followed his advice but to our utter disappointment, our child was , yes born with DownSyndrome. Knowing during pregnancy did not prepared us for the shock and tragedy which hit like waves of emotion many times daily. However, as time went on, we came to appreciate our son, his achievments and challenges. With him came tremendous strength, blessings and support. A great beneift also came to his siblings, who, if not for him, might have grown up far more self-centered and less giving than they are. Would I have taken the test? Maybe. But I would have never aborted. So that would leave me with"tmi" as I had experienced. Would I change my son's chromosomes if I could? .! I wouldn't do it for me or for my family. He might choose differently. But to be in this world, even with all the difficulties and challenges. We say resoundly "YES! Until 120!" He brings all who know him tremendous joy. And I am sure he gives Hashem Yisborach, tremendous nachas. What else are we here in this world to do?

Rabbi--I must respectfully disagree with you on this issue. Just because we can test for Down Syndrome, it does NOT mean that the woman will terminate the pregnancy. If a woman knows the baby will be born with down syndrome, she can contact her local county health department in order to get early intervention services for the baby. Being able to access early intervention services well before delivery is very helpful. However, if the woman chooses to terminate the pregnancy this decision must also be respected. No, there is no such thing as tmi here. Knowledge is power, and the women (and their husbands, if the father is involved) need to be as educated as possible in order to make an informed decision about such a life changing matter.

It never ceases to amaze me how easily ppl throw the term "terminating the pregnancy" around. In the same way, why not call child murder "terminating a childhood"?! It makes it sound much cleaner, doesn't it? What exactly makes the child any different, a moment before s/he is born to a moment later - that it is outside vs inside? that you can actually SEE the baby? When the baby is in its mother's womb - it's still there! And "terminating the pgcy" -as innocent as it sounds - still means killing that baby! The only difference is that you don't actually see it happen and save yourself the gore and the guilt (although if you take the time to watch Efrat's video on what exactly goes on there as the pgcy is being "terminated" - you will see exactly what I mean. If a mother cannot handle her TWO-YEAR-OLD child's disability and kills him - do we "respect her decision" too? This never ceases to shock me. people - THINK - please!!! Or at least - even if you think otherwise - take the time to check it out before you make such callous statements! On the small chance that 'terminating a pgcy' MAY actually be murder - are you willing to take the chance? FIND OUT - ask those who know - contact Efrat who will SHOW you EXACTLY what is done to that baby and just how alive it really is. This isn't the place to 'assume' or blindly believe what you are told - CHECK IT OUT before you throw around such dangerous, horrific statements! Speaking as both a mother who was told to 'terminate' a dangerous pregnancy AND as a mother of another child with special needs... (whom I would NEVER give up on, but that's besides the point. Even if I couldnt' handle it - better give the child up for adoption than kill it!)

When referring to a child with Down Syndrome, please say "child with Down Syndrome." Labeling someone as a "Down Syndrome Child," classifying them as a disability and not a person, leads to thinking that leads to tests like Materna21.

I am an observant Jew and I have the merit of working in the field of teaching students with disabilities. For anyone who is unsure about whether or not it is ethical to abort a child based on their disability, I suggest that you ask yourself the following questions: Is it possible that G-d can create a soul that is incomplete or imperfect? In G-d’s eyes, is our value based on our IQ, our grades in school what college we went to or how much money is in our bank accounts, or does each human being have infinite value because they were created in the image of G-d, and through their deeds can shape the very nature of the heavens and the earth? While I don’t think we can judge parents who are facing challenges that we ourselves have not faced, I think it is important that we as Jews to consider that when Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach and Rabbi Elyashiv, two of the greatest judges of Jewish law in modern times, were asked whether a child with a disability should even be put up for adoption, they were in disbelief that the question was even being asked. Parents who receive such children were chosen by G-d because they were deemed worthy of caring for a lofty and pure soul, which presents an unparalleled opportunity for the parents to gain tremendous merit and reward. We as a community should also see assisting parents who have children with disabilities as an opportunity to cleave to our Creator and emulate his ways. If you have any questions about this issue, please go to Aish Audio and listen to the lecture Shelanu: Down Syndrome -Facing The Challenge by Abraham, Dr. Avraham. Issues regarding when children with disabilities are exempt from some mitzvahs is complex in Jewish Law and competent rabbinic guidance should always be consulted in such cases.

Some parents would be physically, financially, and emotionally unable to care for a special needs child. As I wrote in another comment -- there are people who do not have a large, close, observant family to help out. People who have to give up a child are doing it BECAUSE they want the best for the child, not because they don't want to be bothered. And resources for families vary tremendously between states, countries, insurance policies, etc.

When I was preganant back in the early 1990's I was 34 having my first child and the doctor pushed me to take the Amniocentisis test due to be being 35 when the child would be born. I went along with it not thinking there was much risk..Well everything went OK, though my son was born 6 weeks early but weighed 6 lbs. I had this test in my 4th month and found out it was a boy then. I think it should be up to the parents if they want to know. Down Syndrome is hard to live with and many have health problems but we are not G-d and really have no right to say who should live and who should die. Our society has become obsessed with having perfect babies. My son is healthy though he has (so they say) ADD and a mild learning disability. I love him just the same

Abortion is not the only reason people would want to know. I would never G-d forbid terminate a pregnancy unless my life were in danger, but I have in the past tested for DS because I would want to know before having the baby so that I could emotionally prepare for it, rather than be shocked in the delivery room. Of course, this means I'd be ok with finding out in the second trimester, but if this test is safer, I would go for it. It does bother me that most people would use this test to abort, but that doesn't make it bad- not everyone is trying to outsmart G-d, plenty of people just want to know so they can prepare/learn to accept wat's coming.

I believe this is an excellent test. While it might present a question in Jewish law, to me, this does not represent as "tmi". Quite the contrary, the more information one has, the better our decisions can be. True, the test is not foolproof, but in this day and age of rationed health care dollars, a 98% success rate represents a no-brainer.