Dating Maze #302: The Nice Guy

Dear Rosie & Sherry,

I'm age 23, tall, slim and healthy; graduated with honors from a good college, and now gainfully employed. Yet for some reason I haven't had one serious courtship, even though it's been more than a year since I started dating seriously for marriage.

When women decide to stop seeing me after one date (even though I'm willing to continue), I ask them to explain why. The typical response is that I'm a “very nice guy,” and that they “enjoyed spending time with me.” They say there is nothing wrong with me that they can put their finger on, but for some reason they don't have the right "gut feeling." Regretfully, this has happened a number of times.

What can I do to make girls more attracted to me?

Eli

Dear Eli:

We hear the same question from many other “early daters” who wonder why they haven't been able to develop any meaningful connection with someone they've gone out with, and they suspect that something must be the matter with them. Most of the time, there's absolutely nothing "wrong" with the person asking the question. It's just that it sometimes takes a while to meet someone with the right mix of compatible values and goals, character traits, personality and appearance. These factors have to all come together in order for both people to feel that their connection has serious potential and they want to move things forward.

You've only been dating a little more than a year. You may look at some people you know who met the right person relatively quickly, and think that's the way it's supposed to happen. But that's not true for the majority of daters. Most people can date for a few years, or more, before they develop a relationship that leads to marriage. The goal of marriage-oriented dating is not to have "serious relationships," but rather to find that one right person. So it’s important that you don't put yourself on an arbitrary timetable.

On the other hand, if it's been your experience that you seldom get past the first or second date, then it would be helpful for you to take a closer look at what's happening.

It's possible that you're dating people who aren't in the ballpark for you. That can happen when you accept blind date suggestions without asking enough questions to ascertain if she and you have compatible value systems and goals, and possess several of the personal qualities each other is looking for in a partner. To simply go out with someone who's described as "nice," without finding out enough information, can result in an enjoyable date with someone whom you can't possibly build anything with in the long term.

On the first few dates, restrain yourself from talking about deeply personal topics.

Another reason could be that you are overeager to have a date work out, or that you're anxious, or that you project strong positive feelings you may have about the person you are with. Any of these can make your date feel uncomfortable. The first few dates are the time for two people to break the ice, start to learn about each other, and do something fun together. The daters need to restrain themselves from talking about deeply personal topics and from displaying any strong feelings they may be having. That's because this can quickly lead to the other person feeling uneasy and turning off – because they don't know how to handle such a situation with someone they barely know.

It could also be possible that some of the young women you've gone out with don't understand how to date for marriage. They may be expecting fireworks, which is very unrealistic, and may not know that it may take two, three or even four dates before their initial “neutral” reaction starts to blossom into feeling a real connection. They may not understand that, for the first few dates, the best idea is to focus on the moment, and when the date is over, the question to ask themselves is: "Can I go on one more date with him?"

There's another possibility. Sometimes, a person who is repeatedly turned down and is told he's a "nice guy" isn't being told that something about the way he presents himself or interacts isn't working. It could be how he dresses, his social skills, what he talks about (such as focusing primarily on his job or one particular topic), or tries to impress so hard that he's not himself. When you ask someone you've gone out with what the problem is, she is probably the wrong person to ask, because this is a hard topic to discuss with someone she's dated. The better "address" to go for feedback is a third party, ideally someone who knows you both (or in the case of a blind date, the one who set it up).

If you begin to see a pattern in your dates' decision not to continue, you will want to make some changes. In this regard you can benefit from working with a dating coach.

While we think it is a good idea for you to explore the possibilities we've discussed, it is very likely that you've just not yet met a woman who is right for you. Time is part of the dating process, and while most daters wish that the Right One would come along quickly, often the process takes time. While you navigate the dating maze, we encourage you to take some of the pressure off yourself by not making your life revolve solely around your job and your dating. It's important to also keep up your contacts with friends and family, pursue a hobby or interest, be involved in a community project, and take care of yourself by eating right and being physically active. If you have a balanced life, you'll find that you are better able to deal with the ups and downs of dating – until you're fortunate enough to meet the person who is right for you.

We wish you success in navigating the dating maze.

Rosie & Sherry

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Published: February 13, 2010
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Visitor Comments: 26

(26) SusanE, May 1, 2012 7:25 PM

Consider this.

I would ask Eli, has he ever been the one to turn down any of the women for a second date? Or would he date any woman who would accept a second or third date? Women can sense that right away........that they are not special to him. That he is simply looking for marriage material and that any woman will do.

(25) Anonymous, August 16, 2010 2:33 PM

It could be you are dating the wrong people. Also as others have stated lighten up

(24) Anonymous, April 27, 2010 7:42 PM

Lighten up!

Enjoyed all the comments esp number12!. Please do not take yourself so seriously at 23,Mr.Nice Guy!

(23) Sara, April 7, 2010 9:59 AM

Maybe You're Coming Off Desperate

At 23, I would have been seriously creeped out by a guy who was "dating for marriage". Perhaps you should try either dating women slightly older than you or not being so forward with announcing your intentions to younger women. It might be scaring them off.

(22) naima, March 12, 2010 12:51 AM

good things come to those who wait

Sometimes people feel serious and ready to date for marriage ahead of their peers, and it takes a while before they meet the right person for them. I think its important not to rush, and to open yourself to meeting new people through the many jewish events that go on, through your local rabbi, amongst other jewish friends, or even the organsied parties. While you wait for 'the one' you can make good friends along the way. I went to a university with a small jewish population (edinburgh) and it took me a while to find someone who I like, but the wait was worth it. I went to lots of singles parties, and I also went on the summer programmes and winter programmes, and again summer programmes organised for young jewish professionals, including aish, ecjs,.....after many many events and meetings I found someone who shared my values and who I enjoy being with... but it took 5 yrs!! Also - the book 'the game' by neil strauss is really overrated!!

(21) Donna, March 7, 2010 3:15 AM

I will pray for you, Eli

Hang in there! Just stay pure and clean in today's nasty world, please! I was 25 before I married. I was chased by lots of boys and remained pure and have NO REGRETS!!! I didn't like guys that were either extremely cocky or guys that were to desperate. Just relax... sounds like you are to anxious. That is a real turn off. Just stop and pray before even asking someone out. God will show you who is right for you. He did for me and He is no respecter of persons. I personally was afraid of commitment...I wanted to make sure that I was indeed ready to stop seeing all other options out there. I was never wild, but liked variety. When I said , " I do" I meant it as a covenant before a Holy God and God has blessed me for it. I will pray for you Eli, just stay pure and able to give your all to your mate - no compromises! If I can do it, you can too! Amein!

(20) Anonymous, March 7, 2010 12:51 AM

be yourself

girls want a guy with character, be self-assured and confident. read a book called 'the game' by neil strauss. it is not a Yiddishe book but it helps understand the dynamics of male-female interaction.

(19) Yoni, March 2, 2010 4:43 AM

Nice Guys Can Finish First

This is an easy one. 1. When women say "you are a nice guy, but..." it means you aren't acting in a way that makes them feel chemistry for you (as the first commenter said). Instead, you are probably acting boring or trying too hard to please them. Luckily, you can change this. 2. First, you are taking dating too seriously. This is obvious from the fact that you wrote a letter to this site. You are a 23 year old man. Keeping in mind that women mature faster than men, you should just relax about dating and marriage for now. 3. Go in to a date with the attitude that you are just there to have fun and see where things lead, without having expectations of a serious connection. With most people, you won't have such a connection, so this expectation is factually correct. 4. Don't try to be "romantic" -- that stuff should be saved until you are already dating someone for a good while. Otherwise, women think it's weird. 5. Act confident and decisive. Without being uptight or controlling you need to lead the situation, such as choosing the date spot, paying for it, and keeping the conversation from getting stuck on typical boring topics like each other's work, the weather, etc. 6. Tease your date about little funny things now and then. If you adopt these attitudes, you will have much more success with women (and will be more relaxed). And you will still be a nice guy.

(18) Michael, March 1, 2010 10:58 AM

The uncomfortable truth

What Women say they want and who they actually go for are often quite the opposite. If the questioner wants a female friend, he should be Mr Nice Guy. If he wants a romantic relationship he needs to drop the 'nice guy' image.

(17) Anonymous, February 22, 2010 4:40 PM

Love: Not just for the young, also for the young in heart!

My Grandfather remarried, after the death of my Grandmother, he was in his late 70's. "Puppy Love" isn't just for teenagers or the young. They were like two teenagers in love yes, but they were adults, with real issues like their kids having a problem with their love for each other, and their health issues. Did they have a spark for each other? They sure did! If they had waited to long, they never would of enjoyed their ten years together before death parted them.

(16) Anonymous, February 22, 2010 3:56 AM

Women want strong men who can lead

Eli, please read the article "5 Things a man needs to do to be in a successful relationship." on the Aish website http://www.aish.com/f/m/48944586.html In marriage and family iife there are many challenges. When a woman dates a man to consider him as a potential husband, she wants to see a man who will be able to take charge and handle these challenges. When a man tries to be a "nice guy" and lets the woman make all the decisions on the date, she thinks he is a nice guy but her gutfeeling is that he is not the man for her. Many men won't even decide where to go for a cup of coffee. If a man can't make that simple decision, how will he handle the difficult challenges that can arise in a family? This is a very common complaint about single men today. Eli, stop thinking of yourself as a nice guy -- start showing your share of leadership. You will see a big difference.

(15) Calvin, February 21, 2010 3:53 AM

Where does Eli find these girls?

How does Eli meet the young ladies he dates? In synagogue? In a bar? at the gym? at the mall? at parties? at work? The venue where you meet a girl sets the tone for that first date. Some are more positive than others. If he wants to marry a serious Jewish girl, then maybe he needs to get involved in serious Jewish activities - shul, volunteering, activism, there are so many options. Make friends first in a Jewish group setting, then think about going out on a date. Otherwise Eli is just venturing into the great American post-college career-starter meat market that leads to a sequence of extended sexual relationships that get Eli no closer to marriage.

(14) naphtali, February 20, 2010 9:54 PM

at any age

as a man i can't speak for women's experiences. however, many women are looking for that instant spark whether they're forty-fifty-sixty. society is youth oriented and everyone seems to want to appear younger in all aspects; e.g. the cougar. rushing to meet that spark is typical of teenagers. at 40-5-60 one should have realized that getting to know someone first as a person gives you a better take on who they really are. that takes time which unfortunately few want to take. if you don't take time developing a relationship, you're likely not one to spend time maintaining it. who wants someone like that as a life partner? narrow your field with what you can live with and then play the numbers.

(13) Mark, February 20, 2010 1:23 AM

Dating and marrying while young is a good thing!

I strenuously disagree with Mr. Shimon Baum's assertion that Eli is too young for this forum or dating/marriage in general. We as Jews need to encourage marriage and childrearing to a much greater extent than we are. To suggest that somebody who has already graduated from college and is working yet still is not ready to date for marriage is absurd. When do you think he will be ready? 33, 43, or what? I have a gentile co-worker who is 24 years old and is already married with three kids. He is a college graduate and a professional. There is no reason Jewish people cannot do the same. Eli, you are absolutely ready to date for marriage and best of luck to you.

(12) Charles Short, February 19, 2010 5:24 PM

Father-in-Law relationship.

remember David haMelech's father-in-law was Shaul haMelech who demanded David prove himself by bringing him the heads of 500 of Israel's enemies before he could marry his daughter. As a relatively young "nice guy" from a secular background with some religious interest, your relationship to Hashem is un-proven. If you establish yourself as a coward who only wants to be nice, make some money and have a comfortable american life then some of the women you have dated might settle for you. But since you have the potential to change significantly, you are not quite ready for what electrical engineers might call "phase-lock."

(11) Anonymous, February 18, 2010 9:35 PM

Hygeine

If you have are having trouble getting past first dates please double check your first impressions. This includes being clean, brushing your teeth (overpowering breath is very unpleasant), not smelly, and not knocking her out with your cologne. If necessary, dress the part for work one day and ask your a colleage you trust for comments or take a friend on a "mock" date and have ask them for comments and suggestions. It is very hard to tell someone you just met these unpleasant, yet correctable things.....

(10) anon, February 18, 2010 8:32 PM

Young women are very foolish and want the "bad boy" who treats them like dirt

(9) Anonymous, February 18, 2010 9:43 AM

talking material could be the reason

Hi Eli, I am a girl and used to say the same thing many times to the guys that I didn´t want to see again. What could stand behind this is your date´s discontent with the way you lead a conversation. The most common mistake is talking all the time about your job in an attempt to impress her by your apparent seriousness or not allowing the girl to participate in the conversation. Try to encourage her by asking questions and inviting her to the dialogue, spice up your date with good humor and address only general issues in the beginning. It might help!

(8) Anonymous, February 18, 2010 8:03 AM

In the same boat!

I'm the same age and a girl, the same thing has happened to me! I sometimes don't get it do guys want "bad girls"? I came to the conclusion and have been told this many times they were just not the right person for you! The right one is out there don't give up have faith that all will work out for the best in the end! I'm still hanging in there and waiting for the right one to come a long... And by the way I don't see what's wrong with a "nice guy" I hope I end up with one! Wouldn't want to end up with a "bad guy"! All the best!

(7) Anonymous, February 17, 2010 9:26 PM

don 't worry about it

a girl who is marriage material will go for the qualities that are for long wear. in truth they don;t know really if you're nice or not but if you are a person of substance and quality values you'll most likely get a good woman or at least one with potential to develop together with you. maybe someone who knows you from school or work can set you up. hang in there . also if you have a teacher,rabbi or tight friend who can help it may be worth checking it out as well. next time if they say you're nice but not for them you might say " f off .see i'm not so nice." just joking heaven forbid you take that advice.

(6) Rachel, February 17, 2010 8:30 PM

Or maybe they just don't want to hurt your feelings

Often when someone doesn't want to go on seeing a person, the one who wants to stop will say this just to be polite. It's much easier than saying "you and I don't have common interests" -- and then have the other person tell one that they're just dying to take up the same interests; or to say "I'm looking for someone with more education" and have an argument about that, etc.

(5) Anonymous, February 17, 2010 2:38 PM

the date

it all so might be the date you are planning or not planning. where are you taking them and where are you not taking them? in my dating for marriage dates i have found that going for coffee is the worst thing ever because it is 100% talking and no doing.Plus i hate coffee so i am not having fun. so if you are not having fun why would your date be having fun. So talk to someone that knows both of you can ask for ideas about where to take her. that should help you out.

(4) shimon_baum, February 16, 2010 7:18 PM

Elie please listen to my advice. First your a little young to be writing to a dating site. I didn't read the professional's response because it was too long and to be honest i can say the same thing in less. First I hate to break the news to you but unless your a yeshivish guy with money you will probably be going on dates for several more years. You may get lucky not trying to discourage you but most guys are not getting married at 23. Second being called nice is something a lot of guys are called but its meaningless. What good does it do to call some guy nice if the girl doesnt want to go out with you again. Its the most generic thing you can say one grade above he has a pulse. Are you quiet because that is usually what they mean when girls say a guy is nice hes not exciting enough. My advice just keep going on dates thats all you can do.

(3) Beth, February 16, 2010 6:14 PM

Nice guys finish first

I always went for the nice guys. So did most of my friends. I married one, too. Hang in there!

(2) derek, February 16, 2010 5:28 PM

don't change

as a nice guy that seems to suffer the same and I am a lot older then you. I won't become like those others and compromise my morals and beliefs. would you be you or someone else? Don't change and be patient and yes it is not easy but hopefully worth it in the end.

(1) Anonymous, February 15, 2010 5:39 AM

Chemistry

First of all Eli, stay being a nice guy! True a lot of girls goes for the bad guys. I for one was always attracted to the bad guys. Why, I thought, they are horrible. One conclusion could be the bad guys liked you so much, it drew you into that relationship, even though you knew you shouldn't. Strange, I know. The good guys, were nice to be around but there never was any chemistry. The nice guys, would remind me of my brothers. It takes alot of bad guys, and then you make yourself like the nice guys. I see a lot of exboyfriends, the nice guys, married, and they are the best husbands. But there does need to be some chemistry. So don't come across like someones brother, but keep your morals though.

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