Dating Maze #359: Wild Past

Dear Rosie & Sherry,

I'm in my late-20s and have been maturing spiritually. I started going to synagogue, eating kosher food, and even spent six weeks studying in Israel. I decided to stop dating until I was really sure about the direction I wanted my life to take and to feel more comfortable about who I was becoming.

Recently, I decided that I was ready to find the right one to marry. Two months ago, I started dating someone who wanted the same things as I – lots of kids, a home filled with love of Judaism, a close-knit community. We both even work in similar fields! Fortunately, we got along well from the start and enjoy spending time together – going for coffee, picnics, museums, hikes, and an occasional concert.

I can really see this leading to something permanent. But I am terrified about letting him know a few things about my past. In college and through my mid-20s I was very into the party lifestyle – getting drunk, wild and promiscuous. Looking back, I feel guilty and embarrassed about some of the things I did.

I'm worried that these experiences won't go over too well with the man I'm dating. He’s led a pretty sheltered life and the only dating he's ever done is for marriage. I'm afraid that if he hears about what I did in the past he'll think less of me as a person.

Does my past matter? I could live without saying anything about it, but what if he asks? I can't just lie! Also, if we do decide to get married, should I tell him the whole gruesome story?

Melanie

Dear Melanie,

You've asked a question that becomes an issue for many people who decide to date seriously for marriage. Many of them have regrets about lifestyle choices from their younger days, and wonder if they should tell it all to the person they want to marry. They may feel it's important to be completely open with their future life partner, or they may feel guilty about what they did and believe that revealing the secret serves as an atonement.

It is counterproductive to intentionally withhold important information.

No matter what motivates you to "come clean" about the past, volunteering this information is a terrible idea. We're not saying this because you should be hiding information about yourself in order to get married. To the contrary, it is counterproductive (and/or dishonest) to intentionally withhold important information, or when a couple fails to discuss viewpoints and issues before becoming engaged.

Here’s the rule: When a dating relationship seems to be leading in the direction of marriage, there is an obligation to reveal and discuss matters that are likely to have an effect on a couple's life together, even if they are embarrassing or unpleasant. This is the only way that both people can make an informed decision about marriage. Some of this information includes:

current medical conditions (and prior conditions that may reoccur)
current debts and other financial obligations
mental health conditions such as anxiety or mood disorders and anything requiring medications
current or prior substance abuse or addictions
financial and personal responsibilities to children and spouses from past marriages

Notice that this list does not include details of prior romantic encounters. First of all, these don't have the same effect on a marriage as those we've listed. Most importantly, though, such disclosures invariably harm the person who hears them and can damage the relationship itself.

How can they be harmful? Intimate details of a past relationship can cause the listener to form a visual image of what occurred. The picture that forms in their mind can interfere with their thoughts and feelings about the current relationship, and create a barrier that may be difficult moving past.

The man you are dating will probably not be surprised to learn that you went to wild drunken parties. Contemporary secular culture accepts these choices. Most people aren't troubled by the unspoken knowledge, or assumption, that young secular people engage in an active social life. However, when they actually hear the details, they can get stuck on them.

That's why it’s not a good idea to volunteer this information. He knows you had a “non-sheltered” upbringing, and you don't need to tell him anything more. If he asks about your prior sexual experience, you can answer honestly without going into details. "Yes, this isn't my first relationship." You can add, "That was a different part of my life and it doesn't reflect who I am any more. It's something I have moved past."

Don't offer names, numbers, or other details – even if he asks for them. In our decades of working with dating and married couples, we can testify that – without exception – everyone who asked for details later regretted hearing them. This harms a relationship in the precise way we've described. Instead of giving details, you can explain that this is a part of your life that you don't like to think about, and that it doesn't have a connection to the future you hope to build together.

Dealing with Guilt

We've answered your question about when, if, and how to tell this man about your past. Now we’d like to help you find a healthier way to deal with your own feelings about your earlier life choices. Right now, you're disgusted and embarrassed about what you've done. That's a common reaction for someone whose worldview has changed because she's matured and chosen a more conservative lifestyle.

When we undergo this process of regret, we become a changed person.

The Jewish concept of teshuva ("return") is a process of regretting certain things we did in the past, asking God for forgiveness, and committing not to do them in the future. The essence of teshuva is that when we undergo this process, we become a changed person. We're not the same person we were before. This is one of the great gifts the Almighty gives us – the ability to sincerely regret, forgive ourselves, be forgiven, and wipe the slate clean.

Teshuva is actually an ongoing, lifelong process in which we continually try to be better people and renew ourselves. Sometimes the leap forward is large and dramatic; sometimes it is small and imperceptible. If you can look at yourself as someone who has grown beyond who you were in the past, you can stop fixating on prior mistakes and concentrate on being proud of your growth and forward movement in life.

It can be difficult to make a transition from the type of social dating you engaged in before to the goal-focused dating for marriage you are now choosing. We believe you'll find it helpful to develop a mentoring relationship with someone who is experienced in your age category and life choices. A mentor can help you know what issues to expect, what to look for and talk about as you become serious with each other, and how to know that you've met the right person to marry.

We wish you success in navigating the dating maze,

Rosie & Sherry

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Published: May 26, 2012

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Visitor Comments: 34

(27) Anonymous, August 1, 2012 3:24 PM

Personal Experience!

I dealt with this exact problem. I was a bit of a wild child to say the least, and my husband was the complete opposite. That is okay! I was honest and forthcoming about it because while those things were in my past and he is my present/future, those actions affected who I became. Good or bad, I cannot hide them, for the mistakes or actions I made helped me grow to a point where I was mature enough to be married. Being more religious or not is a cop out. When we marry, we become one soul, all past mistakes are forgiven and we look to the future. Who someone used to be does not matter, its who they are now that is most important. My marriage is built on pure open trust. I would not have been able to share that with my husband if it wasn't. I am lucky to have such a wonderful relationship, but I told him when we first dated that I was only interested in full honesty for everything. Yes, sometimes it might hurt, but if you discuss what about the honesty hurts, then it no longer becomes a barrier. Only by not address issues does our past taint the relationship. If it something he cannot handle, then he does not understand the Kabbalat Panim and the journey you will be on.

(26) Baguette, July 25, 2012 6:11 AM

One can be too honest but outright deception is wrong

Read Tess of the D' urbervilles ! Or watch the movie and you will be shouting at Tess to keep her 'past' to herself . But that that early 19 thC England . I am very uncomfortable about anyone going into marriage with any major secrets .i mean how would you like it if you were the one who was being kept in the dark ? But let's assume the guy you are dating knows you went to college and then became religious he must therefore know that your lifestyle included behaviour that you may now regrett . I do think you have a duty to make sure that he does understand this . If he doesn't press for details don't offer them ,he doesn't want to know and is happy to accept you for the person you are now . If he does press for the gory details I would refuse to give them for a ll the reasons given by Rosie and Sherry but the relationship may not last . But if your past is going to be a problem for this man it's better to find out now than after you marry

(25) Anonymous, July 5, 2012 12:47 PM

It does matter

I think the past does matter if one partner is the jealous type or just simply wants to know. Like a previous comment, what was done exactley does matter and its not enough just to say that they have now changed. I dated a girl once, and whilst I had no problem knowing that she had previous relationship, it later transpired that she also had casual encounters and did drugs, that was simply beyond my limits and my standards and I would have felt very cheated had she not told me. I appreciated her honesty and moved on.

(24) Anonymous, June 12, 2012 10:02 PM

YOU CAN'T & SHOULD NOT HIDE THE TRUTH.

I believe that you should and need to tell him what happened. Marriage is not a place for hidden secrets. If a person cannot say everything about their past lives to his/her future life partner, is that marriage not already being built on deceit? I'm afraid that I would not like to be involved in that type of relationship. Regardless of what the truth is, I want to know that there are no hidden secrets between my spouse and myself. Lastly, if he really loves you for who you are, he will accept you AS you are. If he can't do that then it would be better for both of you not to get married to each other.

(23) Jared, June 12, 2012 10:56 AM

It's ok to want to know theses things

Some guys care about a woman's past, some don't. But for the one's who do, they have a right to know. There are definitely halachic (i.e. marrying a cohen), spiritual (i.e. p'gamim) and physical (i.e. possible disease) ramifications for having had previous intimate experience, and if someone wants to know to if their potential mate has a history, it is his/her right to know. That being said, it's probably better to ask a shadchan or rabbi who knows the boy/girl than to ask them yourself, it could be very untactful.

josh, September 8, 2012 8:13 PM

halachic ramifications

they are no halacich ramifications to marry a cohen unless a female was involveld in a forbidden relationship , as she was a single girl i dont thim this was the case and a pgam is not a spiritual thing , tshuva doesn help for it is nothing spiritual, and he has a right to know if they are medical issues in general and if she can confirm this he doesnt have to know the details of what could have caused problems and if he loves you he'll acept you AS you are , is not an argument because love grows much more after being married and know your only dating

(22) Anonymous, June 11, 2012 9:57 AM

if true love exist b/w you guys. then you will accept who you are and what you were before. Love is also about accepting.

(21) mi, June 6, 2012 8:31 PM

Rosie & Sherry advice may be not good for some situations

I guess it really depends on what exactly was done in the past. One thing if a person was involved in several romantic relationships in the past and another if she (or he) did something really scandalous. I do not think that just saying "it doesn't reflect who I am any more" would be sufficient in the latter case. Getting such things behind you by full disclose is especially important in our digital age, when there is a non-zero probability that some photos or videos can emerge later in your life.

(20) Dan, June 6, 2012 3:23 AM

From my own experience, keep it to yourself.

If you are sincere in your new life then trust that you are forgiven. To reveal these events is asking someone else to bear your burden and it will destroy you both.

Anonymous, June 26, 2012 3:47 PM

Shut up!

@Melanie - You've already gone out with this guy for 2 months. If you ask me...do you feel this is the guy for you? If so, I say wait till the timing is right. Everything in life is timing. The time to date and marry as well. There is nothing deceitful per se about keeping IT to yourself. However, I dont see how spilling your guts will improve the relationship. Best to tell him before you get engaged, however, at this point, keep it to yourself until your gut tells you its time to discuss it.

(19) Anonymous, June 5, 2012 5:38 AM

No surprises after the chuppah.

No secrets, no details. He should respect that private things should remain private. Perhaps more important to him is your current attitude and how you will instill in your children your new values.

(18) Anonymous, June 5, 2012 2:21 AM

I disagree

"Ein Mazlirim Lo Avonosav Harishonim" - It is a sin for someone to remind someone else of their past transgressions. It is obvious that a BT would have had more experiences than a FFB and you should NEVER discuss the matter. Unless you have a chronic STD or there are photos floating around etc... This is not being dishonest. It is about being relevant.

(17) Anonymous, June 4, 2012 10:10 PM

uh...not quite

Maybe this question was already cleared up but if this young lady is dating a Cohen she has to let him know about her past. She may be forbidden to him.

(16) Yochanan, June 4, 2012 3:03 PM

Be honest

You are required to be honest. If you have had sexual 'escapades', he has the right to know under our Law (as do you, I would argue) going into the relationship. He has the right to give you a 'get' if you lie then he later finds out. Why add scandal to scandal? Admit to your follies. That is the first step in finding forgiveness and peace. Then never do those things again. I would further suggest remaining single and celibate.

(15) Bob Rabinoff, June 3, 2012 3:26 PM

Regrets

There's an old country song that says "If I can't be the first, then let me be the last." Marriage is about the future; while it's true that the past affects the future, that is only without t'shuva. Resh Lakish says that true t'shuva turns willful sins into mitzvot, so someone's past can actually be a springboard to a better future. Somewhere it is said that when a divorced or widowed man and a divorced or widowed woman marry, there are 4 people in the bed. Midrash Rabbah tells us that to inflame her husband, Mrs. Potiphar gave him all the (imagined) details of what Yosef did with her. So I think Rosie and Sherry are right on -- spare your partner the details, because those thoughts will likely intrude in the most inauspicious moments. Thinking about old flame A when you're with spouse B is dishonest, sinful, and according to our Sages, doesn't give any children so conceived a very good spiritual start.

(14) barbara, June 3, 2012 2:36 PM

i was there too

i also dated (and married) a ffb, sheltered man. i asked my rav if i should tell him about my past. the answer i got was that i had no halachic obligation to, but may want to share a vague sense of it so we know where i came from - that mean = no names, numbers or details. i also decided to only go into the discussion if he brought it up. as a baal tschuva it was clear to him that i had a past. he did ask me about it and i freaked out inside. i answered in truthful but vague terms. he asked me about numbers and i answered that that info was of no relevance to him or our relationship. it was a rocky few days and then we got engaged and BH ......... so my advice is tell the truth but he definitely does not need the whole truth. (and it really could be harmful to your relationship and future). DO NOT give him any details AT ALL. Behatzlaha Raba and may you be blessed with a life of simcha and shalom!

(13) S, June 3, 2012 7:21 AM

Makes sense

Totally correct, i badgered my husband for #'s prior to our marriage, and once an awhile i remember and it gives me a bad feeling. I put that information far back in my head, and try not to recall it. It really has no effect, except makes me feel like i wasn't the only one....I could have done with out the information, even though i would have known he had a history. Details make it harder to forget. A marriage is work for the present and future.

(12) Ofra, May 31, 2012 11:12 PM

Loyalty and sobriety are fundamental issues. He has a right to know.

Really? It won't affect the marriage? How can one's attitude toward loyalty and sobriety not affect a marriage? Maybe this person can change, maybe not. A potential spouse has the right to decide for himself whether or not a match is appropriate, based upon complete information. "Protecting" him from the truth is patronizing and sounds like a dodgy rationalization for lying by omission. How can the couple accept each other fully if the relationship starts out with deceit? What happens when the truth comes out? Yes, there is a risk that he will turn away if he finds out, but on the other hand, if he's ok with it and feels comfortable that the relationship will be exclusive, the marriage will be stronger because it's based on honesty and full disclosure. Better to risk breaking up now when little is at stake than later, when children might be involved. I also wonder how the advice would have differed if it were the man who had issues with promiscuity and drinking.

(11) Aa, May 31, 2012 7:34 PM

Wild Past makes you stronger

My husband had a wild past, 2 kids, 2 wives, 20 girlfriends --- and he confessed everything about his past to me when we met- we are happily married now 25 years - he is my truest soul mate- I always appreciate how honest he was from Day 1

Misha, June 12, 2012 3:54 AM

wild makes you weaker not stronger

i think you're deluding yourself if you think that living the life of a mindless pagan in one's most critical stages (aka youth) of development makes you better in the end. There's no such thing as "getting it out of your system"...One's lifestyle is a great "teacher" for better or for worse and changing isn't very common - unless selfish motives are involved. He has developed a toxic load of bad 'habits" (taught himself to be bad which does stay in the subconscious mind) which i pray doesn't come back to the surface in the form of a "mid-life" crisis. If he has behaved himself then G-d has "kissed" your relationship (THANK Him for it) and/or you're just plain lucky, however data has shown what one lives is what one most likely becomes...Which is why G-d demands us to LIVE torah conscious in the first place, to avoid having to 'make it up" to those you really love but can't really prove it in the future unless its over time. Tzekadah is priceless so we must do our best as early as possible. even if you don't feel like it. Youthful experiences builds men and women for better or for worse - - and like anything else...'practice" will make perfect...shalom leckha

(10) Jef, May 31, 2012 3:18 PM

My Business

About a million people can say they had a drink with me. And none of them are lying. I am very private but a straight shooter. I admit to heavy drinking in my teens and '20s. I don't go into detail about my sex life. That is between myself and G-d. Anyone who grills me gets the Readers Digest version. If they don't like it, tough luck. I am honest. But that does not mean I am obligated to tell people everything.

(9) Anonymous, May 31, 2012 2:47 PM

I think the sages agree

Many cultures place a great premium on a woman being a virgin at the time of marriage. Orthodox Judaism also expects this of men. There is a purity both bring to a marriage that's special and one can sometimes feel the electricity between them at the wedding. Secular American culture does not take that position, although for certain many do choose not to be "promiscuous.'It's a gross generalization but it seems to me on campus and with twentysomethings sexual activity for most occurs when there is some sense of "knowing" the other person and sharing something of themselves beyond just the physical. It's often not just another oppt'y to feel good,like having a meal. While parties where alchohol flows in excess, and one hooks up with strangers are a part of most campus life not everyone or even the majority indulge in that manner.I confess I'm not in the loop enough to comment with certainty. I agree with R&S that there is no need to share this info. He knows on some level you lived differently than you do now, and nobody is forcing him to date you. I think this may be an area covered when the sages advise that "a man should not speak too much with woman, even to their wife." It seems to me that advise is applicable in reverse as well.

(8) Anonymous, May 31, 2012 2:31 PM

Keep some things to your self

We all want to share everything with that special some one, but just like a bad joke, it sounds better in your head. BELIEVE ME, I have dated girls that partied like I did,and I pressed them to open up about their past, and that was a bad mistake on my part. If your going to tell him things, make sure that you thought it out.

(7) Anonymous, May 31, 2012 11:36 AM

Yes, but . . .

I agree that there is no need to talk about your past escapades, however it IS important for you to make sure that your former promiscuous behavior has not resulted in contracting a sexually transmitted disease (STDs) which could certainly impact your physical health, your current relationship, and even your fertility.

(6) Anonymous, May 30, 2012 11:08 PM

sadly, the truth hurts

My first husband pressed me for details on my previous relationships and I believed honesty would be the best policy. I told everything, and two years later, we divorced. He never could accept my past, and it was a very big mistake to have provided details. I support R and S in their recommendation to acknowledge past experiences but not to provide details---the "vagueness" does not have to arouse suspicion, as it should be couched in terms of personal growth and change.

(5) Anonymous, May 30, 2012 8:40 PM

Be very careful

The Chofetz Chaim likened gossip to spreading the feathers of a pillow and trying to recapture them. My history is similar to the lady asking the question. At first I used to answer the questions in a straightforward manner which did indeed turn off at least one gentleman. Now at a much older and wiser age, I just say (only when asked) that there is much in my past I would not do again, including certain religious explorations. I talk about now and how long I have been religious. Exact numbers are irrelevant to now and how I've lived my life for the past 9 years.

(4) Rachel, May 30, 2012 3:52 PM

Some things are private

"Don't kiss and tell." It's one thing to admit to past behavior that one would never choose now; it's another to violate the privacy of one's past partners. I also think it's unfortunate that the frum community is so unforgiving of people's pasts. I've heard many stories of young people who are having trouble finding a shidduch now because they were a bit "wild" in high school or college. I'm not suggesting that one should welcome everyone immediately with open arms, no questions asked. But when one sees a single person who has joined (or returned to) the community, is keeping mitzvot, behaving responsibly (whether it's working, learning, continuing a secular education, raising children, or whatever), then that person should be just as acceptable as a potential shidduch partner as an FFB who's never strayed.

(3) Anonymous, May 30, 2012 2:26 PM

Wow this really changed everything for me because when i was dating in the past i told guys names of previous boyfriends & they look at u differently & now i know what to say thanks to this article

(2) Man, May 28, 2012 8:15 PM

Never ever tell a man

Anything in the past is history. I agree fully with the R&S. Should you tell him, every time he meets an old acquaintance of yours, the first thing in his head will be "Is this one of them?" "How many times?" etc every single guy you meet he'll worry? Is he more attractive than me? How are looking at him Why are you smiling? Etc etc. and this will be the sheltered man the good boy. The unshelterd guy gets worse and the Jealous one will destroy the relationship at best.

Anonymous, May 30, 2012 5:36 AM

Other Side of the Coin

The other side of the coin is that by staying vague, she starts to sound evasive. Personally, if that conversation came up, and the lady I was dating started answering the way that R&S suggested, I'd be very inclined to end the relationship there. I wouldn't end it because I MUST have details. I'd end it because being evasive does not inspire trust. At best, this is avoiding the question, at worst, it's lying by omission. There are other problems that this answer could cause, but, in short, I agree with Anonymous below. I'd have serious misgivings about a lady that couldn't answer a question honestly.

Anonymous, May 30, 2012 11:05 PM

Honesty -wins in the end.

A marriage only last with pure honesty. The man or women (if they are worth you) should have no reserves to say -if G-d can forgive you, so can I.

Anonymous, May 31, 2012 2:24 PM

Huh?

If the lady admits that she has a past, how much detail will you ask her for? You really do not need to know more than that fact and if there are any medical consequences. She will not become evasive unless you press for details. If you do, the likelihood is that she will be better off without you.

Anonymous, June 12, 2012 4:14 AM

its all about atitude

Or the guy will be better off without her -if she suddenly decides after giving a ton of "wedding nights" to losers she doesn't want to think about (?), that NOW she selfishly wants the security and love of someone who will actually DESERVE the love/sex she wasted on people who never deserved it. if she's pressed about being a "sl*t" for jerks then she will need to show broken-ness and shame coupled with a ZEAL and PASSION to reassure the guy that he is what she ultimately wants. Not that she's "settling" or that he's her second (or third) choice. We/He doesn't know her mind and motivations. sometimes that is the price one must pay for being sinful and selfish.

(1) Anonymous, May 28, 2012 7:27 PM

Tricky topics

If I were in the man's shoes, that conversation was brought up and I asked numbers etc and the lady refused to divulge that info; I couldn't help but wonder what else I should know and wasn't being told. That's always a very tricky topic and oftentimes both parties end up wishing it had never been brought up. I also believe that is something that should rank much higher on the list than money matters.

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About the Author

Rosie Einhorn, L.C.S.W. and Sherry Zimmerman, J.D., M.Sc.

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Questions for Rosie & Sherry can be sent to datingmaze@aish.com. Due to the large volume of questions received, they are unable to answer each one.

Rosie Einhorn (a psychotherapist) and Sherry Zimmerman (a psychotherapist and former family lawyer) are the authors of the newly-released book, Dating Smart – Navigating the Path to Marriage, published by Menucha Publishers. They are the founders of Sasson V'Simcha (www.jewishdatingandmarriage.com), a non- profit organization that provides programs and services in North America, Israel, and Europe to help Jewish singles and the people who care about them.