Stuck in the City

You should look into Providence, Rhode Island. I've only been there once and it seemed nice, however the reason i'm suggesting it is because my sister in law spent many years living there and never forgets how much she would love to be back. She says the people in Providence are open and accepting, friendly with you even if you're not like them religiously, unlike where she and my brother currently live, with labelling and the like. She is a wonderful person, laid back and into healthy living and she is not frum from birth either.

My wife and I have 3 young children and recently found ourselves embarking on a similar journey, with our goal being: to find a small, diverse Frum community with an orthodox day school that put Derech Eretz above all else (for real!). We also wanted to be surrounded by the natural beauty of this world, but are willing to travel to fulfill more of that need, if necessary. We travelled to a handful of cities that we researched and settled on Columbus, Ohio. The journey through different cities was worth the trip, too! I'll have to check back in a few years and post an update... Good luck to you!

Go to Israel! It's where we're all supposed to be, and the only place you'll find a slightly hippie, Torah oriented, wonderful community. Take a look here: http://www.or1.org.il/HTMLs/Home.aspx See you in Israel soon!

You could always come to White Oak; 8 miles away from Pittsburgh. I don't know if you could have a farm here....although some of our neighbors really try! There are two families here who moved from NJ and Baltimore respectively because the community has no overpowering hashkafah. G-d willing, two more are moving in this summer. Come join us for Shabbos sometime :-).

My wife and I are also halachically observant Jews. We currently live in Durango, Colorado where there is essentially no observant community - though there is a really warm and wonderful little Jewish community. We often long for our time in Santa Fe, New Mexico - a city of about 80,000. There is not a large orthodox community but there is a small group of very observant Jews. It's beautiful and I hope we will return there someday.

We are ready to go, we just don't know where.

your dilemma is also my dilemma except that i do not have children and am older.I have been asking God for a long time about where to go-i, too want the connection to God, but do not want to give up the natural surroundings to live in a city even though there would be more Torah study ,etc. I live in Berks County and it is so beautiful even though i am lonely for more observant people- but i also don't want to be that closed off from the colors and individuality of others- i am also a former hippie. I have also heard that Louisville, Kentucky has a strong orthodox community, but have not yet visited there- i'm assuming there is more countryside there then in the ciity but i am not sure. May God help you find the right place for all of us.

Seriously! I know where you are coming from. I also want chickens, goats and a kollel. We are saving up and teaching the kids Hebrew. We have friends moving to Karmiel, near Haifa, who decided on Karmiel for similar reasons. You could ask the mother what she recommends: http://oceansofjoy.wordpress.com/

..though it cannot be always how you plan it! My husband and I live in the center of Jerusalem, a busy busy hectic city. We both LOVE nature and my husband also grew up loving it like you do. We have been battling with the decsion of where to live similar to you- we like to be individuals and would much rather raise our children surrounded by G-ds nature! In short, our solution is to live here (for the schools and torah atmosphere) and to have a house up in the north of israel where there is beautiful nature where we can go for shabbos and holidays. About what you have written: One never needs to give up religious ideals! Or give up on dreams! But life IS a series of "nisyonot" tests, and often the decision is: comfort versus growth. Sometimes our dreams and our plans and ideals are not what G-d wants from us. And much of our work in this world is to shape ourselves to G-d's will. When it comes to living in Israel, I don't believe that it is more dangerious than living in America! It is written in so many places that G-d takes special care of His children living in Israel. Also, may i comment, that having complete faith in your husband is a little misplaced- he is human like you and none of us can garauntee our success! Your faith needs to be in G-d. It is He Who gives parnassah and everything! In America too!! I wish you every good wish I can and much hatslacha with your decision. I hope this nisayon brings you to greater levels of emunah and clarity in what is important in life :)

It sounds like you really need to come visit us! We live on Moshav Yonatan, in the Golan Heights. My husband and I are both Baalei Teshva, and we made aliyah straight to Yonatan with our children 8 years ago. Yonatan might be perfect for you: country living, an eclectic mix of Jews in a loving Observant community (which includes a few ex-hippies, too). And you could give me a few tips as I move from carding and spinning on to weaving! :) Seriously, contact me if you would like to be our guests on a pilot trip. Or if there is anything else I can do for you. But don't give up -- you will find the place you are meant to be rooted. Write me at kahn.shari@google.com

Truly - we too do not enjoy parts of the shtetl living - like the lack of views, not close to nature, etc. But as my rabbi - who is not particularly a zionist told me - "you should never be too comfortable in the diaspora... you want small town living with yiddishkeit - you need to move across the pond.. " if you really study our obligation - opportunity to do a mitzvah - there isn't a really good reason we have for not making aliyah.. HaShem gave us Israel just like he gave us Shabbat... spurning HaShem's gift is probaly not getting any of us American Jews any points upstairs - at a minimum we should be Israel obssessed (as well as Torah) and tryint to get there or our children there...

Twin Rivers, a development in East Windsor, NJ is the best secret in the tri-state area... We're structured somewhat like a moshav, with townhomes and detached homes surrounding open fields and playgrounds. We have two shuls in the center, with a Jewish day school, and close distance to other schools. The community is as diverse as you can imagine... black hat from Lakewood, YUers, newly frum, and everyone inbetween. There are plenty of BTs here (myself included). We are the most affordable anywhere... nice four bedroom townhomes cost @$250K. My husband commutes to NYC easily with a direct bus to/from Port Authority. Erev, Mikvah, kosher shopping, flowers, parks,,, we really do have it all. TR is designed so you or your kids almost never have to cross a street. I can't say enough, except come visit! We'd love to have you for Shabbos. :-)

I don't really have any suggestions, though creating a little community of your own sounds wonderful (and I'd love to live someplace like that!). Mimi seems to have a great idea-what if you could find a happy compromise? Maybe you could find a place not too far away that would offer you and your family what you need. I'd check out that option! Best of wishes and many blessings!

We left a fabulous Chabad neighborhood in Meqon, WI. In WI we had a great Jewish neighborhood, schools, amazing Rabbi, over an acre of land, wildlife, fresh air, a blue sky and me not working. My husband lost his job so we moved to a Houston, TX suburb near family (non-Jewish) with great schools and inexpensive housing and no income tax.. I now have to work and spend 10 to 15 hours a week in the car. We are floundering "Jewishly." Our synagogue is over an hour drive away (sometimes 2 hours with traffic). Our neighbors are within "passing the sugar" distance. The only wildlife is the occasional sparrow that frequents our birdfeeder. Life is rotten. If you find a good Jewish community in a lovely rural or semi-rural environment where the sky is blue not yellow from the smog, where kids play outside without fear of abduction and mother's can spend time with their family instead of in their cars, please let me know! I'm sad to say that there is no fairy tale. No happily ever after.

I have often heard people here in Toronto saying the same thing. I have also been told that B.T. don't fit in anywhere so it doesn't matter where you live. You could try somewhere like Ottawa, Ontario where nature is close by and there is a Kollel, plenty of learning opportunities for the whole family, and a colourful Jewish life.

Ramat Beit Shemesh offers LOTS of classes for women in english. It is getting a little pricy with all of the new olim constantly moving in, but there are a bunch of little moshavim around that you can feel all naturey. I'd suggest there or Tzfat or Ohr HaGanuz. The latter is more earthy, Tzfat is a bit more townie/slightly urban. Plus Ohr HaGanuz is super close to Meron and a wonderful trail that leads to Tzfat in about an hour and a half to two hours, full of springs and pools and great forests. Plus, there's a "Go North" help and support program through Nefesh Benefesh. Good luck.

Sometimes the answer is so close that you cannot see it - White Oak, PA is close to a UPMC hospital, has dentists, a bus to get to the day schools in Pittsburgh, has beautiful parks, a new mikvah, an eruv,very affordable housing, daily minyanim and trying to regrow their community - maybe try to go for a shabbos. You may email me privately to discuss further! I'd be more than happy to help you!

I am sure that there are regligious kibbutzim who will accept your family and who are exactly what you are looking for.

I grew up in the small jewish community of White Oak,Pa about 15 miles east of Pittsburgh. It has everything you are looking for. An orthodox shule,an erev, a mikvah and a wonderful sense of community. It is close enough to Pittsburgh to have easy access to the city and jewish day schools.It has lovely quite streets with big yards that are wonderful for gardening and outdoor living. It is a quiet,warm,wonderful place to live.

The following incident is related by Rabbi Sholom Gold in Viewpoint, NCYI, Sept.-Oct. 2010, Vol. 52/No.3: A Jew visiting Israel from the Diaspora made an appointment with Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt"l, to discuss the mitzvah of yishuv ha’Aretz (dwelling in Israel). After marshaling his arguments justifying the position that one need not make aliyah, Rav Auerbach responded softly in Yiddish: “Es iz nisht vichtig” ("it is not important”). Just open up a Chumash and read and you will see that Ratzon HaShem (Hashem's will) is that Jews should live in Eretz Yisrael.” Rabbi Gold (Rav of the Young Israel of West Hempstead, NY, at the time) consulted with the Gaon HaRav Yaakov Kaminetsky zt"l, concerning his own aliyah. Advised Reb Yaakov: “Reb Sholom, I hold that it is a mitzvah today, as it always was, to live in Eretz Yisrael and if I could, I would go to the airport now, get on a plane and go." It's the tragedy of our generation that Diaspora Jews have so lost touch with this reality (as amply demonstrated in this comment thread). They have become so engrained into the fabric of American life, that they have forgotten that they are but strangers in a strange land...temporary residents who SHOULD (but no longer do) yearn to go home to Eretz Yisrael. As Rav Shlomo Zalman said, the Ribbono Shel Olam wants us back home, but tragically, tens-of-thousands of bnei Torah are refusing to go. I dread the consequences of their refusal.

Yes, it's a wonderful thing to make aliyah, and to ask a gadol and/or Rav if one should make aliyah is a very wise thing. That said, it is just plain wrong for people writing responses here on this site to give answers of great rabbis that were given to individuals and treat them as though they were meant for the entire American community. I can tell you of many cases when these same rabbis told certain individuals not to come to Israel on aliyah. So please don't "paskan" for everyone and think that someone who doesn't come should be criticized so harshly. You cannot judge someone else, and you don't have any idea of what that individual's bigger picture looks like.

Communites in Israel are not as closed as you think and even in places where"everyone is the same" they are not. As for your other fears, "haboteach baHashem hesed yesovevenu"

I do not live there, but know many lovely families across the observant spectrum who do live there. I'd contact a few families . contact Aish and I'll help you meet some people there for a shabbos.Land, mikvah, easy transport to schools, single family homes really nice people. chag kosher v'sameach!

You need to come home to Oregon, Portland, Eugene, Ashland, Bend. We love Hippies here. School is more of an issue, the only day school is in Portland

orthodox retiree living in NYC looking for an area that i can "live" in. Meaning have something left from my social security after paying rent and medical.

My husband and I live near NYC. While I grew up in a city myself, it was in the southern part of the states (slightly different mentality there). My dream, since I was a little girl, was to live out on the countryside, on a beautiful farm. I would give so much to be able to make that a reality. My husband is also a wonderful, hard-working man, but I do still have that same concern of moving out to a land in the middle of nowhere, and still being able to make a living. Wow - let us know if this community starts up.

try this a bedroom community outside washington,dc

Denver is an "out of town" community with all your basic resources- great shuls, mikvah, excellent schools for girls and boys through high school. There are several communities (separated by geography- Denver is a pretty sprawling city- not by any machloikus) and the AISH community run by Rabbi Meyers is frum but hardly monochromatic- anyone could find their place there. Everyone in Colorado is an outdoors enthusiast, and you're sure to find many like-minded nature lovers. You can affordably buy a tract of land outside the community and live your agrarian dream while still being within easy commuting distance of the main community. Shabbos might be trickier, but other families have bought a "shabbos house" closer to the shul for this reason, and you can always do Shabbos on your own some weeks and rely on the (amazing!) hospitality of Denverites to have you other weeks.

With all due respect, I don't understand the question. Why should a Jew live in a foreign country if we have our homeland? Nothing better in the world for you and your kids and besides that, we need you here in Israel.

My wife and I have been pondering the same question! We live in New York, though neither of us grew up in a city, nor did we envision a city life-style when we married. We ask each other on a daily basis: Once dental school is finally over, where should we move? Please keep us informed if you find those 10 other couples who dream of a quiet but meaningful Jewish community...Perhaps we can start one of our own!

We're back in NYC now because my husband wanted to learn Torah at a specific yeshiva in Queens at age 40 (baale tsuvah too). We miss Pittsburgh so much. We too were outsiders, but fell in and Pittsburgh remains in our hearts as "home". It has a great community and its a small livable affordable sane city. I wouldn't complain if we got the chance to be back there! (Plus they have the Steelers and Penguins for the males in the house!)

I think you should consider moving to another state. Look up the Jewish communities to see if they have what you and your family wants in a home.

come to Dallas... you will love it!

denver

I would move to Israel if I were you. However, the Idaho/Oregon area is 1.) A Desert B.) Farm Crazy with a lot of farmers markets/organic farm operations C.) A city surrounded by nothing but beautiful mountains and farmland and D.) Has a decent sized Jewish community. Find a job first because they can be difficult to come by. Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholics rule but they are so used to other religions that being Jewish is not that big of a deal.

Thank you everyone for you comments! I am trying to keep up with them all. I do not have a computer at home, so my internet time is quite limited. Therefore I cannot respond nearly as much as I would like. I am copying all the wonderful links you are sending me, please keep them coming. And if you would like to personally contact me I can be reached at ruralyidden@gmail.com I see many of you have taken offence to my use of the word volitile when refering to Israel. Please understand that I could not publish the article in full as I had originally wrote it and had to condence quite a bit. Therefore I wanted to say the most with as few words as possible. For the record, I have lived in Israel, twice. Though I never quite felt at home there, I did not experience all it had to offer. I know of Bat Ayin and have lived in Nachlaot. I think the North would probably feel more homelike to me. And yes, when I lived there I felt perfectly safe. But the current events of the world are scaring me. When I say 'volitile region' I mean the Middle East, now including many countries in Africa. There is so much upheaval and unrest, I don't think anyone can predict what things will look like in 2 years. I am not opposed to Israel, I am more hesistant. And I do not mean in anyway to discourage anyone else from making the decision to move there. But mostly, please keep this conversation alive! Keep commenting, I will read every single one! And I hope there are others who are benefitting as much from this as I am!

Of course nothing beats living in Israel, you really should check out Highland Park. Not rural, but there are many suburban blocks, and most importantly you will definitely feel accepted and part of a community. I moved here from from a place where one had to dress as others to really "belong", so it is really so refreshing.

No matter what you choose in life, you'll be giving up something else. When you married your husband, you gave up the *potential* of all other men. So, sacrifice, yes, no matter what your choice. Have a look at some of the other articles that were published along side of yours. The coverage of the media about Israel is showing a tide outside of Israel that, though the region is volatile, it is likely safer than the direction outside. One of the beautiful things about Israel is that everyone thinks they live in the most wonderful place of all. Ask people in Tel Aviv and ask people in Tzfat or on small villages that dot the country. Yes, you have to make a choice, but isn't the same true in the US? You live in a middle class neighborhood and drive a certain car, or you live in a big city. How about this? How about a year trial of living in Israel. Let your first month be devoted to exploring many communities (there is lots of help to set this up, check Tehilla and of course Nefesh b'Nefesh). Then hang out here. Problems? Yes. Meaning and purpose? Like nothing you'll ever experience in the US. Now a question: What do your guts say when get quiet and ask for guidance from within? Trust your guts my dear; that's really my best advice. No matter what you choose, may you be blessed with great joy as you journey with your sweet family. Keep shining and trust Hashem to guide you to exactly where you need to be. <3

I just finished a book by a man on a quest similar to yours. He recognized that his community was very nice, just not what he wanted. But what DID he want? So he traveled all over the US to look for a new community - and wrote about his journey. Ultimately, he decided to stay put, but live differently. He got involved in all sorts of community events as a volunteer, and found he met new people and expanded his horizons in ways he never thought possible. Now he loves where he lives, which is the same place he started.

The venerable Rav of Jerusalem, Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld zt”l, wrote: “Many times have I directed that the religious Jews in the diaspora be instructed that anyone who has the ability to come to Eretz Yisrael and doesn’t, will have to account for his FAILURE in Haolam Haba.” [Ha'ish Al Hachoma, vol. II, p. 149] Rav Sonnenfeld wrote these words at the turn-of-the-century when Israel was under British rule...and life there was extremely difficult. Nevertheless, he stressed that the refusal to make aliyah will be considered in the Heavenly Court as a personal failure. Can you imagine how much more powerful his words are today, when Israel is our flourishing homeland, and when organizations like Nefesh B'Nefesh smooth the way for one and all. It thus pains me deeply that so many commenters here would suggest that a Jew's "gan eden" can still be found in galus-America. I apologize if I sound harsh, but If you personally don't have the courage to come home to Israel, PLEASE don't discourage others from doing so. The time for ALL Bnei Torah from America to make aliyah is now!

Dear Tova, Come home! Please come and create your vision of a true Jewish life here....Our future as a people, as a family, as an individual Jew is only and ultimately here in our ancestral land. There are many of us who also want a life, close to Hashem, close to nature.....there is so much available here....Bat Ayin, Or Haganuz, and many, many more wonderful communities in Yehuda and Shomron. Please come and join us...live your dream here!

hi we also came from pittsburgh and i am a baal tshuva we live in a community settlement in the south not far from beersheva . you build your own house have alot of btw 400-700mm and we have school until 8th grade and about 14 schuls not everyone is religious but there are lots of settlements that are all religious come look around you dont say what your husband does but someone who wants to work will find work

Great article. It so happens that there are many rural Jewish communities that would love to welcome families like yours. Many actively recruit people to move through financial incentives. Learn more here: http://www.ou.org/index.php/shabbat_shalom/article/coast_to_coast/

Hi Tova, I understand your predicament, and how wonderful that you are thinking and exploring outside of your current 'box'. I am blessed to live in Israel, but some of my kids in the US have faced the same challenges as you, and come up with creative choices. In particular, I recommend that you check out a new community forming in East Boca Raton, Florida - www.eastbocacommunity.com I think you'll find like-minded spirited people striving to grow and contribute, in a beautiful environment for raising healthy, happy, spiritually inspired kids, all in an atmosphere of deep caring and sharing. May Hashem bless you with success in all your endeavors!

Dear lady, I share your concerns. The place you are looking for only exists in your dreams now, but in the very near future you wll be able to find what you are looking for in Heaven. Other than that, here in north east Texas you can find country arieas with clean air, with big trees, and open spaces. There are many people of he Jewish faith, but to the best of my knowledge, not actual Jewish communities, although I do have friends of your pursuasion. We are tolerant and open minded, and of many different races. Land such as you describe can be found around most any of our small cities and towns. It is not expensive unless they are near large cities such as Dallas or Fort Worth. There are many lakes, and rivers, good roads, moderate climates, friendly, helpful neighbors. And best of all many churches of all faiths, and the freedom to visit, work with and enjoy fellowship. So if this has been o any help, I am sincerely glad to have added my comment. have a good life and ask God to help you in your search and choices. He knows what you need.,

You are right - no place is perfect. Learn from my experience - find the good in where you are - I guarantee that wherever you move to you will find problems with it. Stay put and stay happy.

In the 19th century, there were many Jewish agricultural settlements in America. One of the largest settled around Sholem (founded 1838) in the Sullivan-Ulster (NY) County area--later home to famous, now largely extinct Jewish hotels. It could be that the rural lifestyle, still alive in the 1970's around towns like Ellenville still lives. They had a rural shul, and who knows--perhaps there is a remnant waiting to regenerate in these new times.

I am homeschooling my young children (currently just one of them who is old enough for school), believe in gentle parenting. I very much want to make aliyah. I converted to Judaism, and have been Jewish for six years. I feel like I can't wait to move to Israel, but have to wait till dh is on board. I wonder what kind of homeschoolers are there.

Could have written most of your post, at least a couple of years ago...for now we're happy in Brookline, MA, especially now that we have a little community garden plot to grow some veggies in! It would be very difficult, outside of a kibbutz, to maintain an eruv and walk to shul in part of the U.S. where houses are on one acre or more, and not everyone is observant--the distances would be too far. In the past, I put some thought into what it would take to start a kibbutz in Oregon (where I used to want to farm, before converting years ago). Now that I have over 250k in student loans and am unemployed, an urban center offers my only hope of someday finding employment and avoiding default on my loans.

I so wish we could get a clear message of where to live. We became observant in a beautiful, small city. We are not big city people. We love the outdoors. Unfortunately, the observant community here was a dwindling one. We have two children. One stayed here for school and is no longer observant. The other we sent away to Yeshiva for high school and later to Yeshiva in Israel. That child is even more observant than we are and raising a family in Israel. As empty nesters, we have been fortunate enough to find a Shabbos apartment in a nearby big city with a vibrant community. We live a double life, but it works for us at this time. I think that is part of our challenge right now. The forefathers had their challenges for where to live. Avraham moved many times. At one point, he moved specifically to keep his son Yitzchak from outside influences. Yitzchak and Yaakov also moved around for various reasons. It seems that we've rarely been a settled people. I don't believe there is that "ideal" place, as much as we'd like it to exist. I think part of our work in life is to make various sacrifices of our desires in order to do Hashem's will. With young children, that would be to give them the best grounding in our tradition, and to have the experience of Jewish community - growing up with other observant children. Don't lose your touch with the outdoors, but don't be so fixed on it that it becomes a form of 'avodah zara'. Somehow we have to find the balance with Hashem's will as the center. I wish you all the best.

Our community has much of what you're looking for: First class Rabbi and Rebbetzin at our warm, welcoming shul, the former is also Rosh Yeshiva for a boy's high-school and Beis Medresh and the latter also happens to be the principal of our beautiful Jewish community day school (18 months through 8th grade) with outstanding secular and Judaic studies programs; cost of living is very reasonable (nice homes/large lots=1/2 acre all within walking distance of shul/school/ and beautiful large JCC)-you can plant vegetables; fresh kosher meat/chicken and two (one meat and one dairy) restaurants; nice balance of downtown city life and suburban shopping/parks/etc. (Trader Joes, Whole Foods 10 minutes from the "shtetl"; mikvah, eiruv, mashgiach, classes, learning all out of one shul where all are welcome and come....www.btorah.org. Indy has all the conveniences of a big city, yet the "shtetl" is very suburban! Come for Shabbos!

You would love Seattle! We have a very diverse community and breathtaking natural beauty. Many families in my neighborhood have large gardens, and I even have a friend who keeps goats and chickens! One of the local Day Schools has a large organic garden and green house that the kids tend. We have everything here: green parks, mountains, water, chalav yisroel pizza shop, eruv, mikvah, a community kollel, a neighborhood grocery with organic food, home-birthing, homeschooling, a frum Pilates instructor, hospitals, a choice of 3 orthodox day schools and many BT families. I can't tell you how many people I know who have moved here from the East Coast and love the laid back lifestyle and the close-knit community. You wouldn't be out in the "country," but it's possible to find a house with a large enough lot for some serious gardening. Check out: http://www.seattlekollel.org/new/home.php, http://bcmhseattle.org/, http://tdsseattle.org/

My husband and I live outside of San Antonio, TX. There are few jews were we live and most of them are not observant. We have to travel 30 miles to go to Shul and it's so painful to drive on Shabbat to be part of our great Yom Shabbat Service (I do the driving, my husband refuses to do it). We have been dreaming about the same thing...we would love to have (or help build) a small Jewish community with people like us, who cannot live in the city, want to be be organic, raise our own kosher animals and veggies (my husband is even planning to learn and study to be a shochet), and live a live closer to G-d and the beautiful nature He created for us to enjoy. But it seems there are many of us spread out all over the country (or the world?). We are even considering moving if we find few Jews like as in a country area. Texas has advantages too, fairly inexpensive land close to big cities and few great Jewish communities in those big cities. Maybe we can find people who want to move here...who knows... Tovah, we just wish you the best trying to find that place tsome of us are dreaming about!

For everyone who is interested in classes, while it may not be exactly what you're looking for, look at Torahanytime.com. Its run completely on user donations and there are some incredible speakers available (I highly recommend Rabbi Zecharia Wallerstein).

You're doing fine - the more contacts the more ideas. Take a pilot trip to Israel/ talk with Nefesh B'Nefesh about choices. Finally, it isn't really what you get but what you give that should make you content - one day you'll wake up with the anwer.

Try Atlanta or Houston. Both have wonderful Baal-teshuvish communities and you can have fresh air, land not not sacrifice Yiddishkeit. Hatzlacha You should be successful in your search!

The Orthodox Union is hosting a fair for 38 emerging communities on Sunday, March 27. http://www.ou.org/events/event_more/emerging_jewish_communities_fair_20113, One of them is Pittsburgh but there are 37 others. I can recommend at least one on Long Island (NY) that might meet most of your criteria: Plainview. It does have many Jews besides the Orthodox, and you may not be able to find an oversized property, but there's a shul, school and mikvah. Also a JCC, kosher butcher, bakery, pizza. Not sure if town code allows livestock, but organic garden to your heart's content. Good luck!

Excuse me, but if you say you are a Gd-fearing, Torah observant Jew, how can you smear Israel and say it is volatile? I'm from Pittsburgh;my friend, a Jewish woman, was murdered in Schenley Park. Another young Jewish woman was murdered in her back yard, near where you live. We live here without money. My daughter, 8, has special needs and has received nearly $150,000 of therapy/special classes for free. The medical care, especially here in Efrat, is excellent and low-cost. Dental care for kids is free. Move here, to a yishuv near Yerushalayim, like Tekoa, or Moshav Mattiyahu. Plan a Shabbat away every two months, and you will find a terrific, if not ideal, community. Sell your house and you can easily get a nice house/land in one of the new communities in the Negev, or in the Golan. I moved here with $120, in 1989. No connections, job, family. But, now I have a home, kids, and access to the best education for my children, plus shiurim for me. come home! Contact me! Lauren Adilev Cohen mlahava@zahav.net.il Efrat

Try looking into Bat Ayin in Gush Etzion. It seems like you would be very happy there and they would be happy with you. I don't think that Israel is a more "volatile area" than any other in the world -- the quality of life here is actually better than you can acheive anywhere else.

Why don't you research Olney, Maryland? This is a suburban/rural area outside of Washington, DC near Silver Spring. I think it has everything that you are looking for!

We are also Baalai Teshuva, and living in a community very unlike the ones in which we grew up. Sometimes we also feel that we don't fit in, but the older I get, the more I realise that most people (FFB, BT, whatever) have times in life when they also feel that they don't fit, and they feel that everyone else has more friends/ family/ yichus etc. When choosing where to live, make a list of pros and cons, and then realise that whatever choice you make, until Moschiach comes, Utopia does not exist. If you have shalom bayis, parnasah, friends to talk to, schools to send the children to, a place to daven, then thank Hashem for the many brochas he has sent. Carrots can be grown in pots, and holidays are for feeling the brown earth beneath your feet!

There are communities of Latter Day Saints in many places in the Western United States. Entire towns are filled with like minded people, raising their children within their religious and ethical standards. They have built their own communities very sucessfully and would be quite happy to share ideas with you.

In the country where I live I am mostly alone, and surrounded by G_d, in the reaching branches of the trees, in the climbing wisteria, in the pine forest, when I walk in solitary along the ocean beaches, or with my dogs, or when I feed my rescue bird, or snuggle with my rescue cat. I feel G_d's presence everywhere, and in fact, within all that exists. A deep and ongoing presence. When the wind ruffles my hair I feel the hand, the sweet hand of being gentled, and when I stop and pause, I see in crumpled papers the dove of peace, and within the stones themselves, wherever I look, hearts, and roses. And now my Rose, my Rose of Sharon is budding. And so I don't seek what you seek. There is a community within reach that has people, and that has spirit, and for me, it's wherever I am. So my needs are being met. Always. Wherever I go. I am not sure this is helpful, but I am definitely a "hippie" and I felt that strong social conscience then, and still. And for me, it's about writing for peace, for the environment, in pouring out my Aquarian soul wherever I go. If you seek it, you will find it. You always will.

I read on the OU website that they are presenting a "home and relocation fair" for Orthodox Jews living in the NY area who would like to live in more affordable areas and help build up communities. While I know you can't attend, I would like to bring to your attention that you could read about the communities who will be there, maybe there is something for you out there. The OU does so much good, maybe if you contact their community services dept, they could give you some guidance. I do hope you find your dream community, but you do have a long list of criteria and we all have to take risks and give of ourselves in order to achieve our goals. Hatzlacha!

Savannah Georgia is your answer! Jews of all walks of life davening under one roof. Loving each other, non judgemental, warm, inviting - they don't care what level of observance you are. The shul is orthodox & has a minyan 365 days a year. Families have been here for centuries, observing our tradition. There are beaches, parks, orthodox day school, lots of space to run & frolic! There are Torah classes all around, every day! A fabulous Kollel, youth director...Just what you described & more!!! Call me 912-355-5550

My husband and I grew up in the midwest, so when we needed to find a community that met our needs for shuls, schools, mikvah, Torah learning, we looked in our backyard. We have now lived in St. Louis MO for almost 4 years and love it here. There is both a commitment to Torah and yiddishkeit, as well as a wide variety of "types" of frum yidden - witha strong sense of achdus. The community is small enough that everyone matters, but large enough to support at least 6 orthodox shuls, 2 schools, 2 mikvaos plus a shabbos mikvah, 2 kollelim. Aish and other organizations bring in world famous speakers (in fact I find it hard to keep up and can only go to a fraction of the classes offered). While we're not out in the country, we are not in the city either, and it is a short drive to parks (in addition to the ones within walking distance), hiking, and other activities outside of suburbia. Lots of (free!) stuff for kids to do, too. Hatzlach in your search

Why not start a community for like-minded families near an already exisiting Orthodox community?

I second Galia Berry's recommendation to contact Nefesh b'Nefesh. I think that you might be particularly interested in their "Go North" program, which enables new Olim to receive extensive financial aid for settlement in the Galil. There are a number of "rural" northern communities which you can explore during a pilot trip. The bottom line is that NOW is the time to make coming home to Eretz Yisrael a priority, and Nefesh b'Nefesh will do everything possible to insure that your aliyah is a successful one. Hatzlacha to you!

I lived for extended periods at both Kibbutz Sde Eliahu and Beirot Yitzchak which are both Kibbutz Dati and I never found them to be monolithic in dress nor observance. They expected everyone to keep Shabbat and kashrut but there was certainly a range of dress and observance - at least back then when I was there. I know there are religious kibbutzeem involved in organic crops and not all religious communities are in dangerous areas. As another reader wrote, it's definitly worth checking out life in Israel. Nowadays with Skype and other technology, family support systems are not as cut off as they once were.

Try Kibbutz Keturah in the Arava. It has many likeminded people and you and your family would be a welcome addition.

Move to Charlotte, NC

there are a number of communities in Israel that fit your dream description, or close to it, and are also "multichromatic". Moshav Meor Moddin (also called Mevo Modiin) started by followers of Rav Shlomo Carlebach, many of them "holy hippilach" and lots of organic minded people there, beautiful location, but also close to cities like Modiin and Jerusalem with lots of classes. Yavniel - in the galilee, overlooking the Kineret, beautiful views, very wide range of observance, from traditional to Breslav Chasid Or Haganuz - near Tzfat. they have a school for alternative medicine there Bar Yochai - also near Tzfat These are just a few of the more well=known places, but there are many more, especially in the Galil and the Negev, all in very safe areas. Best of all, this is the only place in the world where a Jew is not an outsider.

check out moshav metzad in israel, near efrat. it is religious but you can do what you want there. there are all types. good luck to you!!

firstly I commend your courage in writing this. Secondly I have a couple of suggestions, I think you could find what you're looking for in a moshav in Israel. maybe like Moshav Matityahu, or something similar. also, in the US the out of town communities can be very supportive of "own brand" Judaism. look at Scottsdale http://ahavastorah.org/Ahavas_Torah/Home.html as just one example, altho' I'm sure working the land in the heat of Arizona might not be the right place for you. Good Luck with your quest and may HaShem guide you to the right place

Seriously! We belong to a small orthodox shul: BIAV, in Overland Park, KS. Very non-judgmental, runs the gamut from women who don't cover their hair to sheitls. Lots of inexpensive housing in the eruv, lots of kids and young people, good community day school...and, it's quiet, country-like, and very accepting of newcomers. Contact me above or BIAV at office@biav.org. We'd love to have you join us! Carol (a newcomer myself!)

Try Portland, Maine. There is a mikvah, no eruv though (but a possibility) a school up to 5th grade, 2 Orthodox shuls and lots of friendly people. OR try Boulder, CO or Wisconsin.

I seond what Galia write about Israel. My daughter and family recently moved to Yavniel in the Galil because it offers exactly what Tovah also is looking for: a broadminded pluralistic Orthodox small town with farmers, open spaces for childdren,and excellent schools. Instead of kvetching pessimistically that what she's looking for doesn't exist, Tovah and her husband should look for it and not swallow the American media's labelling Israel a dangerous society. In Israeli neighbourhoods Jewish women can walk alone safe at night. Tovah surely knows that the most rewarding parts of life involve the biggest gambles: falling in love, marrying, having babies, moving to a new community. You can and should research as much as you can but at the end, it's all about trust that Hashem will look after us and we'll end up in a good place if we make an effort and leave our safe but unsatisfying complacency.

There are rural Jewish communities throughout upstate Pa, many settled in the 1800's. They vary in the size of the Jewish community, and vary in religiosity, but would be a consideration. Areas like Selingsgrove and Williamsport. A large orthodox community near Scranton

There are so many moshavim, kibbutzim etc to choose from. In Israel you will find your frum, hippie element...don't give up so quickly on Israel and you may feel safer there than here. The events of the last 10 years seem to show that the USA is slowly not remaining so safe for Jews anymore. Check out Israel, you will find your place. Israelis love natural living....

Yes, Israel is "potentially dangerous." And unfortunately, every city and town in America that you might be considering is also potentially dangerous. When I made aliya 9 years ago - at the height of the second intifada - my mother was naturally worried. Then she came for a visit, and saw the reality of life in Israel, not what CNN allows you to see. She now comes to visit every year and feels 100 times safer here than she does in suburban America. Come home.

If you are serious about your connection to Hashem and Torah, any other choice is wrong. This is where Hashem wants us to be - just open the chumash and see for yourself. The galut (diaspora) is a result of the churban (destruction of the Bet Hamikdash and of the Jewish state by the Romans) - punishment for the sins of the Jewish people. In our generation we are privileged to see the beginning of the redemption, after 2000 years of diaspora and persecution. Come home and join us in building Israel and moving towards the complete redemption! All practical problems are solvable. Nefesh Bnefesh can help. Am Yisrael Chai!

Oh my dear! I realize that it is a decision that needs careful consideration and a move is never easy! Seriously, have you considered Birmingham AL? Yes, THAT one. There is an orthodox shule and a mikvah and land. For less than 1/4 mil, you can get that acre or two, plus a 5 bedroom house within walking distance. Dayschool, community center, relaxed atmosphere, thriving communities. World class hospitals, medical professionals, educational opportunities. Got a new rabbi and the community is an integral part of the larger social life of the city. Welcome to the New South! Come to see the Jewish Cooking Festival that's held every year and well attended by the whole city. Still in the States, but even so, the atmosphere for the Jewish community is very welcoming. Kosher meat is brought in from Atlanta and is very reasonable. Freezer is mandatory, but still we got more than most people imagine. It's a possible choice for those who want orthodox, community, and surprising opportunity. One of the best kept secrets in the Jewish world. www.kicong.org

The writer, along with many thousands of observant Jewish families all over the United States, is in search of an ideal community where to reside. While few communities meet all needs, there are many viable and exciting choices waiting to be discovered - a simple visit can yield answers to questions and much inspiration. I write about some of the choices in my essay "In search of Jewish Life Outside New York," originally published two years ago: http://www.judahsharris.com/emerging-jewish-communities

I grew up in Pittsburgh. First of all, your ultimate dream of finding at least 10 like- minded families to create a new community on pristine land is just adding to the rampant destruction of what little untouched land is left. I am bold enough to say that no one loves nature (particularly wilderness and biodiversity) as much as I do. As a kid, I always imagined living on a farm as an adult. And here I am, living in the crowded Old City of Jerusalem. I take many hiking and camping trips out to the many wilderness trails here, and volunteer with animal rescue. In Jerusalem, and in Israel in general, you can find so many different kinds of communities, and so many people who do not live according to "box-like" thinking. It sounds like the yishuv of Bat Ayin is about your speed, although I really don't see it as being truly back to nature as they claim to be. There is also the possibility to rent a terrace in the Jerusalem hills and to farm it.

Certainly I live in such a place: Kedumim, Look it up on the net. It's EVERYTHING you are looking for. We have many types of observant Jew, Ba'alei Tshvah and converts. We are in a mountaneous setting, have some agriculture: blueberries, eggs, olive orchards, hot houses and more. The only major drawback is that there are few Americans here. But I promise you that there are options for English speakers in Yehuda, Shomron and other places. What Galia Berry wrote a few comments before me is good advice.

There are many, many small communities in Israel which are "fully observant, but not monochromatic." If you are really looking for your ideal home, where you can raise your children with Jewish values, connected to the Land, Israel is where you should be looking - and Nefesh B'Nefesh know all about possible community options. Too afraid to live in Israel? I'd rather risk terror attacks, war, and so on, than have a HUGE chance of my children marrying non-Jews. THAT scares me... You wrote a long essay about how you want to live the ideal life; I am living in Israel trying to fill Hashem's will; you are staying in Galut out of fear...

Dear Tovah, Writing an article in Aish.com is a good start in finding like-minded people and one such person has already responded. Perhaps you could write letters to all the Jewish newspapers around the country, inviting young families such as yours to consider joining together to create the kind of community you’re looking for. Also, instead of thinking that you have to have a Rabbi, mikvah, school, etc. all at once, you can start small. You don’t need a rabbi to daven; just ten Jewishly knowledgable men. You can get material for classes from Aish and have a lay person lead the lessons/discussions. You can manage without an eruv for awhile until you’re able to afford one, or do the labor yourselves. You can home school your children at first until there are enough families to afford a school. Many children a hundred years ago became well educated in the one room schoolhouse. And there’s a value in having older children help teach younger ones, for both the younger and the older children. I do believe that if you will it, it can happen. Publicize this widely and have patience; it’ll take time to find the people you want. Good luck!

For taharat hamishpacha, it would be extremely difficult to have a community with no Rabbi to pasken halachic questions, or a Mikveh. A truly observant community necessitates both for the most basic functionality. At the very least, a community like this would have to be in relatively close proximity (an hour or two drive) to a larger Orthodox community until they could manage to bring in a Rabbi and build their own mikveh!

Move to Israel. Move to "Bat Ayin". The community is full of people exactly like you. You will feel that you are right at home. Housing is cheaper there too. Aliyah Nichmada

Yes, if you listen to media Israel seems like a very dangerous place. Go there for a visit! Your perception will be quite different and I think you will feel very safe. HaShem makes many miracles for us in Israel! You should also check out the Nefesh BNefesh website, which gives a good overview of communities in Israel: http://www.nbn.org.il/aliyahpedia/community-a-housing/community-database.html Yavniel (Galil) Moshav Matisyahu Bat Ayin Nachla'ot (Jerusalem) Merchav Am (Negev) Beit Rimon (Galil) There are many more - good luck on your journey!

Searching for the same things you are, we have lived in several different types of communities over the years. Ultimately, we felt our children came first - and settled in an established Orthodox Jewish community where we lived for the past 20 years so they could benefit from a choice of schools and an active social life. Once they grew up and married, my husband and I (recently) left for a remote area of the country, with no Jewish population (our little village, if you could call it that, is spread over many miles in the mountains/woods, but has 234 people - and we are the only Jews). Obviously our living in a remote area where there is no Jewish community is a controversial move when coming from a mainstream and vibrant Jewish community, and not everyone back home has been so accepting of our adventure. I know I could not have done this move before my children married, nor would I really recommend it to someone else with small children. But right now we are really loving it, and we've really gained in so many ways, while aware of the pitfalls. I do not feel my level of observance has been compromised and I feel very spiritually "alive." One thing interesting that we have found: there actually are Jews everywhere! We have found a few Jews "hiding" in our area (the next town over, a couple of mountaintops away) and have had some very memorable Shabbos guests! Our life is a grand adventure and I am so blessed that we are able to have these experiences while we still have the health and creative energy to do so. Tovah, if you'd like to contact me for more info, please feel free to do so through my blog, http://midlifeinmaine.wordpress.com Good luck! I am curious to hear what other readers will suggest for you.

I could have written this email (almost). We are a baal teshuva, organic-eating, homeschooling, home-birthing, etc family living in the rural upper peninsula of Michigan. We want to live where my daughters (8 years, 6 years, and 6 months) can can enjoy playing with other Jewish children on Shabbat (and maybe go to school), where my husband can daven with a minyan, where I can have like-minded friend, where we can celebrate Shabbat and festivals with other people. (The thought of taking classes makes my mouth salivate, too!) Neither my husband or I can imagine living in a city. We have thought about Israel but are concerned about the stress of living in "a volatile environment,"about changing health care practitioners (I have a chronic illness) and about the drastic change of lifestyle for all of us. We don't know where to go. (We fantasize about people moving here..) I have been sorting through our belongings so that when Hashem gives us a more clear message, we will be ready to act on it. Beyond that, I have no solutions yet. In an old issue of Natural Jewish Parenting, there is an article about a community like the one you envision. I believe it was started in Massachusetts. But I also recall hearing that it didn't survive. Not that it couldn't,,, We'd like to come! P.S. Get in touch with me. In my spare time, I enjoy studying Torah, teaching Feldenkrais, weaving, knitting, spinning, sewing, and beadweaving.

Debra, these are two communities you might be interested in... or haganuz is definitely religious and open minded: harduf is one of Israel's leading organic producers but Im not 100% sure of religious community.... both are in northern israel. As for a message from Hashem, He has already given it to us, loud and clear: Lech Lecha Meartzecha UMimoladetecha..... PLease don't wait any longer: if you jump, trust that Hashem will catch you. He did not give us Eretz Yisrael to watch the news from afar..... B'Hatzlacha!!! To the writer: I agree with you about communities: but don't let it constrain you, NOONE can tell you how to behave! You have Torah for that, and you are clearly on the path of truth. Please join us in Israel, we need you here! And according to all the gedolei yisrael, in these times, Israel is the SAFEST place to be. If you trust in Hashem, it is the only logical conclusion.

I will write this again as a general comment, but I want to give you my email and then we can share info: ruralyidden@gmail.com