Engaged 9 Times

ditto is the best way to sum it up

I love your talks, Lori. Let me tell you in my day (50 odd years ago) there were no "trial marriages" - you took a chance on the guy you figured was the right one for you, the guy you loved and respected, the guy to whom you'd make a good wife, a happy homelife and as good a mother as possible for his children...the guy who'd honour you and stay faithful to you. Well, that can only be made real once you've publicly declared that you're in it for life....after a legal marriage ceremony. You're right about "trial marriages" leading to divorce. Nowadays how many couples (including my son and his ex-wife) get on famously when they're living together (maybe for years) then, as soon as they're married they realize that they never really knew each other, and that they'd made a dreadful mistake - a TRAGIC mistake if a baby is on the way. Thank you, Lori, for your videos - they're so wise.

Didn't get blisters on the feet when I ran away. Track prepared me for the future--run baby run! You know it's a long distance run, the run-away bride; those old feelings that brought the two of you together-long distance to run away from. No side cramps, thank goodness that hindered the run. Won the race fair and square. Who will take up the challenge next, competing at the game of LOVE. Tennis it will be, it has "love" in it, and the commitment to stay within the court. Will be a good work-out; that darn fence around the courts could be a problem for a quickie escape. Seriously Lori, love the mini-talk. And to the one who asked, of course we keep the rings!

I am the runaway groom.

... and you are not "almost live." You are live and enriching people's lives again and again. It was great to see and hear you at the recent June 5 dinner for the Seattle Kollel. Thanks for gracing us with your wonderful presence on the West Coast. Warm regards.

What an excellent argument you make for the support of laws that extend to all citizens the right to marry their chosen partner so they too can experience that influence you describe that marriage makes to a relationship.

Amen!!

in general a very good piece, as always. But I must take issue with banking on the idea that the guy will change. Mama says, "when a couple gets married, she hopes he will change, and he hopes she will never change". Both hopes can get a couple into a lot of trouble.

Dear Lori, On the plus side: At least she's been "engaged." That's more than many of us can say. Maturity and wisdom come with time. Let's hope she finds hers soon before it's too late, especially to raise a family. I'm sure that any one of us who've never come close to an engagement would love to have at least been asked or would have loved to have had the opportunity to ask that "special one." Perhaps this explains our "throw-away" society where people think "Oh, an even better 'one' will come along." So, we can turn this person down because of his or her flaws. But, more often than not, this person doesn't come. And we feel like we've been left standing on the curb or train platform praying for the next bus or train to come. And we have to look even harder, making us seem even more desperate. Does HaShem have a plan for us? I sure hope so. I pray daily that He does. Does each of us have a bashert? I sure hope so. I'd like to not live the rest of my life alone and childless with no chance of my family ever having a Jewish grandchild. I pray that we're all smart enough to recognize our bashert when we first meet her or him, no matter how they look, or their age, single status, number of children, income level, job or career, emotional or psychological or physical health issues, maturity, home location, and anything else one could possibly think to qualify or disqualify another person from being accepting as a match, a phone call, or Heaven help us, a first (or even better) a second date. If this woman has been engaged 9 times, then it's likely that she's got "a lot" going for her (whatever these traits may be) for I doubt that anyone who didn't would have been so blessed as she. As for the rest of us who've never been asked, or who've never found anyone to ask, I pray that we all find our bashert in HaShem's good time and with enough time to enjoy a happily married family life for decades and decades to come. Be well, Rob.

This was a very touching piece, and it teaches a valuable lesson even to people have not encountered the dilemmas of broken engagements.

I would like to be this woman’s number ten. She really impresses me. I take my (black) hat off to her. She is so highly sought after that she can afford to drop someone the moment she finds fault with him. It doesn’t matter that she has already committed to him and accepted his proposal. I think that’s really cool. She exudes a lot of self-confidence, and that reflects enormously well on her. A woman couldn’t do that unless she were real sure of herself: unless she felt deeply that she had nothing to fear, and that the next contender for her interests waits eagerly for her acquiescence. Please, Mrs Palatnik, send her my way! I’m her kind of guy!

the point is not that she thinks theres someone else around teh corner; but rather that she is running away from herself, from reality, from the depths that a relationship can touch. What is attractive about that??

Reading Yisroel Pollack comment made me smile. He is not threaten by Lori's friend. Yisroel is focusing on the positive, he must have abundance of love to give. Lori, set them up; Yisroel would be good for your friend!

But you’re assuming she’s been doing it gratuitously, without good reason. I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt and crediting her with good discretion and discernment. From my perspective, she’s a woman of substance and holds to (reasonably) high standards. She refuses to enter into an entanglement when tell-tale signs develop over time that show that her fiancé is less than he’s been promoted to be. That’s why she earns my admiration in a really big way; and I would consider myself privileged to be next in line.

Another wise teaching from Lori.

This whole marriage-resistance problem seems to be of relatively recent origin. There must be something influencing today's orthodox society in a big way to have caused this. The singles want to get married but just can't make the plunge. If we were to really understand the source of this problem it should make the solution so much easier. Just to throw in a suggestion as to one possible cause, I would say that modern society has corrupted the concept of marriage and partnership, reducing it to an issue of romantic, sweep-me-off-my-feet love. One thinks that it comes first, but in a realistic marriage, true love only develops over time. We have to find the way to get this idea across.

As a matchmaker I wish all my people would understand your message and take it to heart. They eliminate good people before they even give them a chance in many instances.

seems to me this is just stating another problem in modern shidduch. I have recently found out that men are as unrealistic as women are today. Sadly, I've been from the east coast to the west coast Orthodox communities in between and from North to South. I have spent more money in failing to find my shidduch that now I feel why continue to search and throw money away. Check out the site endthemadness.org and also this story http://5tjt.com/featured-news/10504-a-change-questionnaire good luck to all us singles in finding our shidduch.

I was engaged to a women who had two broken engagements. I eventually became number three. In her case, engagement didnt mean it was final. The biggest lesson I learned was to trust my intuition. The benefit of the doubt only goes so far. If some one has a history of this, this is probably a reason

Why would any man want to be #10? Neeeexxt! Do you suppose she kept the rings?

I always wonder how these situations can occur when it has to be a mutual agreement and attraction to get engaged. This woman expressed how she "fell in love" and they "got engaged." Was the guy not a thinking human being as well? I've been out with guys for extended periods of time (in a very frum dating system) who, in my own opinion, could have worked very well for me. If any one of them would have wanted to get engaged, I would have said yes. But in the end, each of the guys broke up with me for one reason or another. The point is that the guy also has to be on board, and I don't understand how a girl can just "fall in love" and "get engaged" without expressing the guy's side of the story! I've "fallen in like" and wanted to "get engaged" but things just didn't work out the way I wanted! Ultimately, you have to do your part - be reasonable in your expectations. If G-d wants you to be flexible, you will be flexible. G-d is in charge of all matchmaking!

Now, you aren't laughing at us singles who just haven't found our match are you?

No, Laurie is not laughing. She is trying to help. Anyone who listens to the tone in here voice can hear the true concern and hurt. the hurt one feels for a brother, sister, son, daughter, or student who is having difficulty understanding some important truth. I hope you will one day understand that; how much Laurie loves you, and how much MORE G-d loves you. Labels are very limiting. Reconstructionist, Reform, Conservative, Modern Orthodox, Orthodox, Ultra-Orthodox, Chasidic, Chareidi are all limiting terms. They don't allow for growth, change, maturing because they define by very specific rules and guidelines. If you don't mind the suggestion, may I say that I think we should replace the term "single" with the term "not married?" I wish you and all "us singles" much success, happiness, and fulfillment.

Hi Mordechai! Thanks for responding. I was laughing myself when I wrote that. I wasn't picking a bone with Lori. About labels, married people can put a label on singles that the reason why they are single is because they are too picky. I'm not a sensitive single, though alot are. I think the problem with labels is when other people put labels on you, it limits them in their ability to relate to you, they think they already have you figured out. I always say, if someone figures me out, I change! So for the married, they can't be picky about their life mate they have already chosen. If they nik pik about all their flaws day after day, they are like a dripping faucet, a nagging nuisance. For us wonderful unmarried people, we can soak up the love of G-d and realize we are single by choice. To you and all the singles, enjoy being "not married", for we can grow in many areas of our life and inter-beings as G-d being the solo master of our days. When I myself puts a label on me so to speak, as define by one of the groups of Judaism, it doesn't limit me, it helps me to understand and know myself inwardly better. "Know Thyself" for if you don't know what you think, someone else will do the thinking for you, and by that, could that be what you are referring to by labels of Judaism that could for some, limit them?

Lori, As always your commentary is right on. Love your video blogs, they're always so inspiring. What makes me sad about this story is that there are women out there that are able to get engaged nine different times and yet so many of us are just trying to get a date and meet someone who we're interested in and attracted to. It seems so few people in our generation want to take on any type of relationship with anyone or anything. But it boggles my mind that there are men out there that are dumb enough to try and date someone like this instead of meeting someone who is ready to settle down. I just can't understand why more men can't see through women like this? Why do men seem to prefer women who are shallow, narcissitic and self absorbed? Who have this type of dating history? Maybe I'm sounding a bit mean to this women who clearly has issues but in my mind this story speaks volumes about the type of society we live in today. Where this type of behavior is acceptable and at most entertainment. I just wish that more men had the common sense, decency and intelligence to avoid these deranged women and meet clear headed, responsible, loving women who are ready and willing to settle down.

I wish for the same and I hope, Jackie, that you meet a good man soon (if you haven't yet)

"Why do men seem to prefer women who are shallow, narcissitic and self absorbed?" Sounds to me like you're being very judgemental on men. Most of my friends are married to wonderful women with fine middos.