Dear Emuna,
My father recently revealed to me that he's thinking about leaving my mother, who can be abusive toward him (and was toward me as well growing up). He's been complaining that she's kept him from pursuing his dreams in life, that she provides him with no emotional support, that she leans on him financially and refuses to go out, work, or do any of the housework, and that she "exploits" and "controls" him.
I know that some of what he says is objectively true. But despite everything, I love my mother and she genuinely loves him. She has her problems and is actively seeking help, but the two of them simply don't know how to communicate. I also have concerns that she may not be able to take care of herself on her own.
Meanwhile, I am (happily) married with a young child, and I am sick of being my parents' sounding board and keeping their secrets from each other. I have been holding their failing marriage on my shoulders since I was a teenager and I believe that I have the right to have the space to focus on my own family. I'm a full-time working mom supporting my husband through school right now and I don't have the emotional space to deal with this. I have asked both of my parents over the years to leave me alone and "grow up" and handle their emotions like adults. They blatantly ignore me, or hold the mitzvah to "honor your parents" over my head. I also am worried about exposing my child to their behavior. They are great with her for now, but what happens when she gets older? I feel like the entire responsibility for my parents' well-being is on my shoulders! What can/should I do?
Torn
Dear Torn,
I think you know what you should do; it’s just a question of getting up the nerve to take the stand you need to take. As you correctly recognize, it is not your job to be your parents’ sounding board. Not only are you not responsible for the state of their marriage, you are not responsible for the state of their collective or individual mental health either.
Additionally, even with all the good will in the world, you can’t force them to change. It may even be that in having you to turn to, they can avoid dealing with each other. It has clearly not been enough for you to just ask them to leave you alone. This is a bad habit that has just gone on too long and it’s up to you to break this destructive cycle.
At the moment, I only see one way out. Whenever your parents begin to criticize each other or complain to you about the other, you say to them very politely, “I love you very much but I refuse to listen to this and I’m hanging up the phone/leaving the room right now.”
This is not heartless. It is not in their best interests to keep harping on the negative qualities of their spouse. Complaining often takes the place of the real effort required to change. In additionally let me add that, while one should always consult a Rabbi to discuss the parameters of the mitzvah of honoring one’s parents, listening to one of them denigrate the other is definitely NOT a part of it. In fact the opposite may be much truer since we have prohibition of listening to and/or believing negative information we are told about others.
You are also correct that your primary focus right now is your own family and that you need to marshal your resources to deal with that demanding task and can’t waste or deplete them on the unending negative cycle taking place between your parents, a situation they are not taking ownership of or responsibility for.
Finally, with respect to your daughter. In general I believe that most children are not hurt by contact with their grandparents. They are able to benefit from the love and ignore the more destructive patterns of behavior because they are not dependent on their grandparents for their sense of emotional safety and security. You will, of course, have to use your own judgment. You seem to believe it’s okay for now and you will have to watch and see if there is a significant deterioration (I certainly hope not) as your daughter gets older. It should go without saying that if there is ever any physical risk to your daughter (or serious emotional risk) then you need to prevent that relationship as well. However, from your description that does not seem to be the case. You should stay far back from your parents but let your daughter continue to spend time with her grandparents who, with all their flaws, may genuinely love her and be able to lift up out of their own misery to be kind to her.
Controlling Sister-in-Law
Hey Emuna,
My husband and I share an amazing relationship; we both love each other a lot and he's my blessing. My relationship is perfect! All my husband’s friends tell him that he's very lucky and we're the perfect couple. The only problem is my sister-in-law; she's 2 years younger than my husband and the youngest in the family. She never liked me.
My husband and I have been together for almost 5 years and we've been married for almost 3 years now. We also have a 9-month-old son. But her behavior towards me hasn't changed. She's always rude to me and ignores me. Now we have a son and she wants to do everything with him and my husband but she wants nothing to do with me. She doesn't even say hi to me; she acts like I don't even exist.
It hurts me that my husband has talked to her about her behavior towards me many times but she's still the same. Now my husband just doesn't bother and he tells me that, "You don't have to be nice to her but just be civil." All these years that she's been mean and rude to me I've never been rude or mean in return. Instead I've always been the bigger person and I've always been nice to her. But she's still mean and rude, nothing has changed.
I just can't do it anymore. Sometimes I want to leave my husband because of his sister. I feel that it's his job to fix his family and the fact that nothing has changed in almost 3 years of marriage. I feel like he failed me as a husband. As a husband it's his responsibility to get me my respect and place in his family. I'm always stressed because of her. I'm always thinking about the stuff she says to me, the way she stares me down from my head to toe, how she completely blocks me and if I know that there's a party/event coming up I get so stressed that I'll be bumping into her. She is the only thing my husband and I argue about. He doesn't take her side but he's just too nonchalant about everything she does just to keep peace.
She's a very bitter, controlling and know-it-all kind of person. She's very social awkward but she thinks she's very smart. I can't deal with this issue anymore!
Finished
Dear Finished,
There are two ways to make this situation better and, unfortunately, they both depend on you. It is crucial for you and your marriage to recognize that no one can change another person. No matter how hard your husband tries, no matter how important it is to him, no matter how many times he approaches her, your sister will only change if she wants to change. So stop blaming your husband and stop threatening to leave your marriage. If you truly recognize how lucky you are, I don’t know why you would even consider this! Blaming your husband for his sister’s behavior which is totally out of his control is just plain wrong, and unfair. That’s the first important point.
Yes, your sister-in-law sounds like an unpleasant human being. But your husband has not failed you because he couldn’t get her to change her perspective.
Secondly if she’s the only thing you argue about you are very lucky. Stop telling yourself that you can’t deal with this. Of course you can deal with it. It’s frustrating and annoying but life has much greater challenges. Pass this one and you’ll be in a much stronger, healthier, and, may I suggest, more mature place when the next one comes along.
(22) Anonymous, February 25, 2017 5:27 AM
Wow. Been there, done that. I stayed, kids paid. Leave?
For the woman with the stressful sister-in-law. Of course when we marry, we still love the families we came from. And of course we can't change others. But a spouse with good character and that truly loves his family would not invite into his home or life, or want to hang out with someone that usually hurts or causes stress for his new family. We can't change another, but we can change our behavior & choices. He can tell his sister he loves her, but her coldness to you is hurtful to his marriage. And that when she can be kind to his entire family, and stop causing stress in his family, then she is welcomed; until then, not. If your spouse doesn't want to, that is not a good spouse to have, or a good relationship example for a child. One can't make a person have good character or care. But you can at least love and protect yourself and your child. The real problem is not your sister-in-law or someone being disrespectful & hurtful to you; it's that your spouse is being disrespectful & hurtful to you. It's that your spouse is choosing to be with someone who chooses to be unkind to his family, and that he's okay with his family being treated this way, hurt. It's not healthy or loving for him, you, your child, or for his sister. It's better your child see's each parent alone, then one poisonous relationship together. Daughters learn to stay where not treated with dignity & respect; sons learn how to disrespect females, even their own mother. I choose to stay, in my mind blaming the inlaw, and hoping my husband would change. 2 months after my mother's passing, my husband & I made a small party for my husband's uncle's birthday. The uncle made a toast, wishing ... "his nephew's wife (my) dad die soon, so my husband could be wealthy". Your inlaw may not be that bad, but either way, your children learn how to have unhealthy, unloving relationships. Maybe if I left, my children would have had a better chance at healthy families themselves.
Sarah, February 26, 2017 10:31 AM
Every experience is different
I'm sorry for what you went through and that you feel you made the wrong decision. Every experience is different and that's why Finished needs proper, unbiased, spiritual minded counsel. You're right when you say children learn what to accept in relationships and how to act in relationships from their parents. In this case, how do you think the little boy will feel about a mother who divorced his father because of one socially awkward family member she keeps on her mind so much and that she blames his father as a failure for not being able to change his aunt's behavior? How do you think he'll feel when he lives with either the mother and not the father for years (he'll probably grow up and choose to be with the father in a court case) or only with the father if he seeks custody ("Yes, judge, Finished wants a divorce because my sister is 'rude and ignoring' and Finished blames me though I can't control someone else's behavior but multiple times spoke to my sister on my wife's behalf but my wife needs everything her way and will do everything but change herself, she's not great to my sister, I had to tell her to be civil, yes, I'm seeking full physical custody because a boy needs his father, we're very close, and Finished needs help, not to consistently show and therefore teach her son such weak and manipulative behavior and blaming, such lack of thought, kindness, compassion and inner strengh, and such a lack of the desire or ability to change for the better. Her thoughts and assumptions about my sister and her blame for me though our marriage is otherwise perfect shows she has no belief in family unity and makes no allowances for people's differences. My son should not be raised this way, though with Finished in therapy, I'd like my son to have a relationship with his mother, beginning with supervised visits so she doesn't speak to him about others or about him in terrible ways.") Finished should look within well before using others' actions to hurt and blame them.
Yael, February 26, 2017 10:59 AM
I totally disagree.
It's very normal for even the most loving, wonderful and fabulous husband to be unable to be as supportive regarding his family as he should be. Is it right? No. Is it as it should be? No. But it's very normal. I definitely think they should go for help regarding this issue, but leave him? Insanity.
Elle, February 26, 2017 11:39 AM
Divorce is serious
Finished is making very quick acting, illogical, emotional based decisions. People have marriages with very real issues, very complicated issues, and try to work on themselves and their marriages. People have had friends, family and others who have done terrible things to them and their loved ones and they learned to forgive, make peace with the situation and the people who did them wrong, and even befriend them. In an extreme case, one man's grandson shot and killed another man's son and the two men, instead of adding to the tragedy, being hateful or taking revenge, formed a friendship and together go around the world giving joint talks about peace and forgiveness. Finished wanting divorce so quick, and others telling her it's right, and her stating and people agreeing - without knowing any specific facts as none were offered - that everything is the husband's fault and the sister-in-law's fault, but not hers at all, and that she should cut out the sister from her life and from the lives of the sister's beloved brother and nephew (who will quickly learn how cruel his mother is to his father, his aunt and to himself, when he learns his mother tried to prevent him from having at least one more person who loves him in his life - not to mention present or future uncle and first cousins), and Finished making more demands on the husband and encouraged to do so, or saying she'll divorce him and is encouraged to do so, based on what, no one really knows, reminds me of a quote I recently read:
"If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit." Robert Brault
(21) Yiska, February 24, 2017 2:24 PM
I read the question, answer, comments and comments to the comments
Part One: 1. You think your sister-in-law is rude. You don't say how. Proper advice can't be given for vague generalities. 2. You say your sister-in-law ignores you. How is this true if she's rude? Does she go back and forth between behaviors? Or is the alleged ignoring of you rude? You never explain ignoring. Is it not speaking to you if you're in the same room or is it not hanging on to every word you say and not acting in great admiration of you? If someone is so rude to me I can barely think of anything else I'd be glad for her to do her own thing and leave me alone. 3. You say the marriage is wonderful except for your sister in law's behavior to you (do you live in a one room apartment with her? do you even live in the same city or state?) so you might want a divorce. That's extreme and sad, as is how much time you spend thinking about her. Is the rest of your time filled with thoughts of others who might not think you're the most amazing person in the world or of others who spend time with your husband but not with you? 4. You claim your husband's friends say you're the perfect couple. Are they with you 24/7? What do your friends say? Your family? The local news? People's opinions must mean a lot to you. Your'e upset that your rude, socially awkward, thinks she's smart sister-in-law chooses to stay away from you. But your husband's friends say you're doing great. So that must be accurate. And divorce must be logical.
(20) Yiska, February 24, 2017 2:16 PM
I read the question, answer, comments, and comments to the comments
Part Two: I know a couple who mentally and physically abuse one another in private yet smile and put on a great show in public and people stupidly envy them. Marriage counseling never works because individual therapy is needed, and each wants to change and blame the other instead of understanding the other. They're miserable and killing themselves. Like you. 5. You say your husband failed you. Because he talked to his sister but she either has social issues she can't yet help or chooses to be true to herself and stay away from you because you're filled with hateful thoughts of her and force her brother to talk to her about your anger? Or because he's a magician refusing to use his magic for you? Do you try to control all people and situations? How can anyone and why should anyone change anyone else? It's hard to change even one thing about oneself. And maybe your sister in law is just as she's meant to be. Stop trying to control others - you'll get nowhere. You'll only frustrate yourself and your family. Change starts with you. What do you really want (not harm to her or divorce unless there are real issues that can't be resolved). In your greatest, most sublime fantasies, in a utopian family life, what do you want? How would you like your thoughts and behavior? Create the positive life you want. Without manipulation or control. 6. You think it's your husband's job to fix his family and get you respect. It's not his job. At all. If you want sweet, harmonious family relationships, it's going to have to come from you. Your blaming both of them, saying he failed you, mentioning divorce, and his telling you to be civil to his sister makes it clear that, to quote Gandhi, "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." So if you don't like rudeness, be gentle and kind. If you don't like ignoring, talk. If you want fixing, work on yourself. If you want peace, be a person of peace. I hope all your relationships - including the one with yourself - improve.
(19) Bunny, February 22, 2017 5:50 PM
To Finished - I'm on your side!
It’s sad that so many of the comments are hostile towards “Finished” and I don’t understand it. She made it very clear that from the outset, (for five years!) her sister-in-law ignored her, wouldn’t even say hello to her and refused to spend time with her and that she, on the other hand, has been polite throughout. It’s especially egregious that the sister-in-law insists on spending time with this woman’s husband and baby and wants to leave her (the wife and mother) out. A man is supposed to “cleave to his wife.” Yes, family of origin relationships are important, but when an in-law consistently acts in a toxic way towards the wife, she has to learn to protect herself. I have a friend whose marriage did not last because of an in-law’s interference and negativity and her husband’s refusal to stand up for her. I have cousins who ended up estranged from their parents because the parents never accepted the cousins’ wives, belittling them and acting as if they were never good enough. These marriages were good and lasted. If the negative in-law lives in the same city, it’s very difficult. It’s a shame that so many commentators are pouring salt into this woman’s wound. She’s in a very difficult situation and I wish her well. (Just for the record, I’m a retired social worker, have been happily married for almost 60 years and have good relationships with my in-laws.)
Teal, February 24, 2017 1:59 AM
Are there sides?
I don't think there are sides if someone is truly asking for advice. Young families taking sides so early can only end up disastrous. Why is a reader taking sides? There's no side, only searching for truth. Someone asked for advice, claiming her s-i-l both ignores her and is rude, but that she is always nice and the bigger person, gave zero examples of this, said it's her husband's job to fix his family, is thinking about divorce though all her husband's friends say they're the perfect couple. Something is strange here. Maybe the women should go to therapy together and hash out their misunderstandings, perceived injustices, suspicions, accusations, allegations and animosity. Or maybe they can simply talk.
If anyone who thinks life would be better if only this person does this, that person changes that, and that all problems are other people's thoughts, behaviors or alleged opinions, there is a book that can bring so much peace - but only if peace is wanted, not to be "right" or have people on one's side. The book is called Loving What Is, which will only help if it's actually read, word for word. It's written by Byron Katie, once a depressed, angry woman with such low self esteem she would sleep on the floor, not a bed, and she blamed her spouse and children for everything - and let them know. About thirty years ago she had an almost instantaneous transformation, feels peace, love and perfection in every moment and situation, and has been helping people find similar peace through what she calls The Work. There are some questions and a turnaround. It's not difficult - but one must want true peace, not to be angry, stressed and told she's right. Katie has an email newsletter, day and weekend courses, month long retreats, videotaped recordings of The Work (you can find it online), and she even has people who are trained to take phone calls to help people truthfully work through the issues. If one wants serenity rather than having others on her side, this can help.
shulamit, February 24, 2017 7:49 PM
Loving What Is (Byron Katie)
I love Loving What Is! It's reality, truth, and peace without blame. It takes something that's driving someone crazy and angry, to instead be in reality, to be calm. Like "my husband shouldn't pick his fingernails or toenails," and works it out to "Do you know this is true?" ("Yes, of course"), "do you really know this is true?" ("Well, I guess I don't know. I don't have the same urge. He has that urge. It's his choice. He's not actually hurting anyone with it. It's different than my behavior or what I expected, I do the same action with a nail clipper, but maybe it's okay, it doesn't have to make me change him, resent him, or hate him, he seems happy doing it, but he's not happy when I comment, and he washes his hands when done...). So it changes from "my husband shouldn't pick his nails" to the reality of "my husband should pick his nails." How do I know? "Because he does. That's reality. What about me? Maybe I don't need to pick my nails, maybe I need to pick my nails, maybe I need to accept that he picks his nails, maybe I don't need to pick on him, maybe I don't need to pick on me." This is a seemingly silly point someone has, but it works with everything. The four questions of The Work are: 1. Is it true? (Yes or no. If l it's still 100% no, and only completely 100% no, after real, intense, very intense, very truthful, soul searching truth and thought, move to 3.) 2. Can you absolutely know that it's true? (Yes or no, delve deep, really think, be very honest with it). 3. How do you react, what happens, in your mind, body, heart and soul when you believe that thought? Does it make you happy, justified, at peace, stressed, calm etc., and 4. Who would you be without the thought? Without the thought of what "should" or "shouldn't" be? (Maybe free, at peace and happy with yourself, your loved ones, humanity). Like the person who suggested it, I wholeheartedly recommend Loving What Is to everyone looking for peace within all aspects of the reality of life.
(18) Tov, February 22, 2017 3:18 PM
Finished, your own words
"My relationship is perfect!" Really?You're talking divorce. "All my husband’s friends tell him that he's very lucky and we're the perfect couple." Is their false opinion more relevant than the disastrous family life you've created? "She never liked me." How do you know? "She's always rude to me and ignores me." Which one is it? Rude or ignoring? Is her not giving you attention the rudeness? You can get better advice if you're more specific. Think about your behavior - are you rude or ignoring to her? "she acts like I don't even exist." How can this be true when she enjoys spending time with your husband and child? If she keeps her distance from you maybe it's because she feels your hate or it's her way to prevent being rude. She might need to keep her sanity up and stress down by interacting as little as possible with you. "It hurts me that my husband has talked to her about her behavior towards me many times but she's still the same." How do you know she's the same when you don't have a relationship with her? If she is at times less than courteous, it might hurt her, too. "Now my husband just doesn't bother" Your poor husband, dealing with your one problem for so long. Why does he have to talk to her? Why can't you? It's your issue and you're not a child. Seems like you're the one doing the ignoring. "I've never been rude or mean...Instead I've always been the bigger person and I've always been nice to her." Always? This letter shows this might not be true. You speak of her with extreme contempt. "nothing has changed." Your attitude and beliefs haven't, that's clear. "It's his job to fix his family" Why? What's your job? "I feel like he failed me as a husband." He tried. You complained and blamed. You failed yourself. "As a husband it's his responsibility to get me my respect and place in his family." A husband has some responsibilities to a wife. Getting her respect and a place is not one of them. Respect is earned - or not earned - by your own behavior.
(17) Anonymous, February 22, 2017 12:28 PM
Where does rudeness take place.
If sister in law is rude to you in your home you are entitled to ask her to leave. Your husband should certainly back you up. I would not allow her to be rude to you in the presence of your child. Your husband should back you up here too. Why is your husband not offended when his sister is rude to you? I would certainly now allow my brother or sister to be rude to my husband.
Ella, February 22, 2017 2:12 PM
In the home?
I have a feeling Finished had an issue with her sister in law from the start and I doubt she ever invited her to the home. Also, the sister in law was described as socially awkward. She simply might make comments that aren't meant to be rude but are perceived as such, or perhaps Finished wants everyone around her to only appear normal, positive and in awe of her. Also, the sister in law is probably very well aware of how she's perceived so if she is ever in the house, though she probably has never been invited by Finished, my guess is she'd be on her best behavior. Also, the fact that she wants to spend time with her brother and the baby, which I'm sure she recognizes as the child of Finished as well as her brother, and that the brother and child want to be with her, shows the sister in law has a heart and soul and intelligence and has the ability to be a functioning member of the family. Does Finished have the heart to allow this? I'd like to know what the sister in law has done that's so bad, and I'd really like a follow up about what Finished chose to do.
(16) Joey, February 22, 2017 7:13 AM
I'm a bit confused why "Finished" seems to be in such turmoil—she says that she's thinking about it constantly, and while it's the only issue in her marriage, it's worth leaving her husband over. I wonder how much time she's spending around this sister-in-law, anyway? If you see each other often, can you arrange things so that this won't be the case? For example, claim to be busy half of the times when she wants to visit, go to family functions when she's less likely to be there, etc.
Beyond that, I agree with Emuna's main point: you can't force her to change, so to whatever extent you MUST interact with her, you have to just learn to have thicker skin. I also agree that the husband needs to stand up for his wife, but if that's proven ineffectual, well, again, there's only so much that you can do.
(15) Sunny, February 22, 2017 5:04 AM
If Emuna Braverman or Finished reads the comments
Was the question edited for conciseness or space or was absolutely nothing mentioned about what, exactly, the sister in law does that is rude? It would significantly matter in terms of how Finished should act toward her. As for how to act about her, I think she should not even try to keep her husband from his sister, as that is a relationship that is none of her business. I am curious, though, about how rude the duster in law is that
(14) Sara, February 22, 2017 3:48 AM
Scary sister in law
I used to blame my husband about his discusting mother... Then I realized it's not his fault that he has a beast as a mother. Not easy, but try to reframe your nasty SIL & either pity her since she's so miserable or try your best to ignore. "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" might take a while, but you'll see soon that it's so true!! Good luck!
(13) Elliott Katz, February 22, 2017 2:38 AM
Caught in the middle father is looking for help
While a father shouldn't discuss marital problems with his daughter, I suspect he is trying to find answers to his problems and also talks to other people about it. I suggest she tell her father that he is the only person who can solve his problems -- other people cannot solve them for him. He needs to stop being a helpless victim and start showing leadership to create the kind of marriage he wants. His situation is not unique. When researching my book, "Being the Strong Man A Woman Wants: Timeless wisdom on being a man" I heard other men describe similar situations. The Talmud (Yevamoth 63a) teaches that if the man is worthy, the woman will be his helper. If he is not worthy, she will be against him. For more on a man showing leadership in a relationship, see Aish. com article "5 Things a Man Needs to Do in a Successful Relationship"
(12) Eloise, February 21, 2017 10:23 PM
Yael, Finished, All the same...
"She blocks you and you're scared of bumping into her. She's really off." Say what? What are you talking about? Are you "Finished" or are you as immature? Brothers and sisters are close, probably have been their whole lives, will be forever. It's a different relationship but it's lifelong, forever. They'll talk and bond and spend time together forever as will the sister with all his children as will the brother with hers, as will his and her children, the closest of all first cousins. Grow up and get over it. She's "rude." In what way? Did you ever talk to her? From the way you wrote, I doubt it. Are you very sheltered or in need of counseling? Harming the relationship of others won't save you, your marriage or your reputation. It won't win you love, respect or admiration. Not from honest, caring, smart people. Continuing this way, so harsh, judgmental, condescending, blaming, and threatening, will probably hurt you bad. Please get therapy by yourself and learn about yourself and learn how to live and how to truly love - not control, make assumptions of or demean - others. If you had a little girl and boy, would you want them torn apart by a misunderstanding, vengeful, confused person? Or would you want them to love each other forever? You'll reap what you sow. Be careful.
(11) Su, February 21, 2017 10:01 PM
Is finished responding to this?
If "finished" has an amazing life then one person who she considers rude shouldn't be such a problem - definitely not to the point of thinking about divorce. So what's the real issue? Is her husband's advice of "be civil" so difficult? If so, why? What is so complicated about that? Does "finished" have issues with any others? Thinks others are being rude? Wants everyone's false love, respect and admiration? Perhaps "finished" should seek therapy. To whomever said the brother shouldn't be with his sister - is he allowed to go out with his friends to get together, study Torah, watch sports, catch up? May he speak with his grandparents? To his parents? With or without the wife? May a married boy spend time with anyone other than the wife? Why does the sister have a special designation? She must be very special, indeed. How about fellow students or coworkers or neighbors? Is that okay? Does "finished" have to be there for everything? Is she really finished? Or is there something about the sister that threatens her? Her intelligence? Her lifelong bond with her brother? Does "finished" have a sibling or more or other family and friends and isn't stopped from relationships? With or without the guy being involved? "Finished" seems very needy, insecure and controlling and likely has underlying issues. She seems to need individual therapy well before deciding what to do about joint therapy or marriage counseling. Contemplating divorce and making ultimatums? Because she thinks one relative is rude? Without explaining what the rudeness is? That's not rational or mature. It's probably not even the whole truth. "Finished" needs an intelligent, educated person to help her through this - not friends or family or biased individuals or equally disturbed people's counsel. Yes, a husband leaves his mother and father and cleaves to his wife - but that doesn't mean not having a caring relationship with any or all family members - who wants a man who leaves his family? I wouldn't.
(10) Bunny Shuch, February 21, 2017 7:36 AM
I sympathize with you!
To Finished:
I sympathize with you and feel that the criticisms in a couple of the previous comments are unwarranted. You say that you’ve always been kind and polite to your sister-in-law but she continues to ignore you and be rude to you. She is the one who has the problem, but, as Emuna has said, your husband can’t be expected to change her (nor can you). To his credit, he’s made the attempt, but only she can change her behavior.
The important thing is to let your husband know that as long as his sister is unkind to you, you’ll appreciate him not spending time with her and the baby without you. He may wish to talk with her on the phone, or meet her for coffee, but it’s not appropriate for him to have major outings with her and your baby and leave you at home alone. When you and she are both at the same social event, say “hello” to her and then ignore her, stay away from her, and interact with other people. While it would be nice for the two of you to have a good relationship, it’s not realistic at this time because of her choice of behavior.
If resentment of your husband over this issue continues, then I agree that counseling, either by yourself or with your husband, will be helpful. If the first counselor you try is not a good fit, find someone else. Since you and your husband love each other so much, it would be a great shame for you to let this one problem destroy your marriage. Best wishes!
Temima, February 22, 2017 4:51 AM
Same?
So you're saying "Finished" should behave exactly like she says her rude sister in law behaves? Rather than try to be nice, find out what the problem is, recognize the sister in law as part of the family? How will this help? This is a new relationship which can improve. Now is the time to try to forge some kind of relationship. It's not the time to set up a pattern of behavior which will lead to a lifetime of anger and resentment which will most likely spread throughout the family. If Finished wants peace or growth, not simply to hear her own ideas echoed back to her, she'll be the one to talk to her sister in law, invite her over, call her, try to have a relationship with her and come to terms with the fact that her sister in law and her husband are sister and brother and they are family and they will always be family. Tossing her aside as unnecessary, and wanting the girl's brother to do the same, is inappropriate, as is talk about divorce if the only issue is how she feels about the girl. Hate and blame and put downs are despicable. Love always wins.
(9) Bunny Shuch, February 20, 2017 5:52 PM
I disagree with Ana and GS
To Finished:
I sympathize with you and feel that the criticisms in a couple of the previous comments are unwarranted. You say that you’ve always been kind and polite to your sister-in-law but she continues to ignore you and be rude to you. She is the one who has the problem, but, as Emunah has said, your husband can’t be expected to change her (nor can you). To his credit, he’s made the attempt, but only she can change her behavior.
The important thing is to let your husband know that as long as his sister is unkind to you, you’ll appreciate him not spending time with her and the baby without you. He may wish to talk with her on the phone, or meet her for coffee, but it’s not appropriate for him to have major outings with her and your baby and leave you at home alone. When you and she are both at the same social event, say “hello” to her and then ignore her, stay away from her, and interact with other people. While it would be nice for the two of you to have a good relationship, it’s not realistic at this time because of her choice of behavior.
If resentment of your husband over this issue continues, then I agree that counseling, either by yourself or with your husband, will be helpful. If the first counselor you try is not a good fit, find someone else. Since you and your husband love each other so much, it would be a great shame for you to let this one problem destroy your marriage. Many good wishes for you and your husband to resolve this and make your marriage relationship even stronger!
(8) sonia, February 20, 2017 3:27 AM
rude sister in law
Don't ask your husband to take sides.He may feel torn, since he obviously cannot change his sister. she is an adult. And probably is jealous about her lucky borther and the good relationship he has with his wife (you). So be, yes, the adult one in this story. Ignore the girl! Be a role model about forgiving others and enhance your most important bond, which is, your husband.
My mother sometimes quarrelled with the rest of the family, or with my husband, and may I tell you it is a very uncomfortable position, the one where your husband is. dont make him uncomfortabe. Make him cherish the good life he has with you!
(7) Alan S., February 19, 2017 9:23 PM
Interesting, divergent comments
Yael made cogent, smart comments on the sister-in-law issue, all of which I agree.
Ana and GS say a lot which, in my opinion, confuses the issue. Some of their comments contradict the fact that a marriage consists of two people, and that a husband binds to his wife. If there is room to include special time for a sister, brother, in-law, friend, whatever, splendid. But most in most marriages I know, such luxury is rare. Now add in that the 'extra' person insults one of the couple, and the marriage is being setting up to implode.
Finally, Sharon's advice makes sense.
(6) Ana, February 19, 2017 3:44 PM
Yael, I disagree
She needs to go to therapy on her own and work out her own issues about her sister in law. If the husband has issues he can go to his own therapist. When she is healed and more kind and compassionate to brother and sister then maybe therapy with the husband will work. Until then, she'll only make demands that he agree to everything she'd say, which might not be the right way. Additionally, there is no reason why the brother and sister shouldn't spend time together. They're siblings! It's beautiful that they are also friends. The wife should invite the sister to join the family or even do things with only her, but blocking a sister from having time with her brother is bizarre, unnecessary, controlling, and cruel.
(5) Sharon, February 19, 2017 3:40 PM
regarding the mean sister in law
First of all, I can sympathize with the writer's grief. It is very unpleasant being mistreated. But the husband has not taken sides, has only requested that wife be civil. It might be helpful to view this sister-in-law as being mentally ill. It's also possible that it is the case. If the wife sees her sister in law as mentally ill, her resentment will turn to sympathy and the feeling of hurt will be diminished. An ill person can't hurt you that much because, their speech/action lacks import.
I used this method in softening the blows of a mean-spirited mother-in-law. And for the first 15 years of my marriage, my husband didn't even take my side! After I started to see her as disabled, her cattiness was easier to swallow. Things greatly improved in the last 7 years, but sometimes I still struggle with it.
Basically, anyone who has a need to be mean, probably has a personality disorder and can be pitited.
(4) GS, February 19, 2017 3:33 PM
To Finished
You're extremely negative about this girl. Why? What does your sister in law do that's so rude? You say she's socially awkward. Maybe she has a condition. Are you sure her "rudeness" is about you and not about her? Maybe she's not comfortable around you. If her brother knows she's okay and wants you to be civil, this is probably closer to the reality. What have you done to make her feel comfortable with you and to make her know she's still part of her brother's life and with that, yours as well? Maybe she needs reassuring, an invitation to a day out with you or a meal in. Maybe she needs specific designated times to talk to or to be around her brother. Maybe he needs this, too. Are you thinking of his needs? Tearing him away from a sibling is atrocious. She also needs to know you won't push her away but will embrace her. She needs to know her brother will always be her brother and that you won't try to stop that. It's immature and mean to do that to them. They've grown up together, lived together, know each other more than you and he do at this point. Don't sever that bond. Your insecurities can make you evil. Don't do that. Be kind. I think you'll see she'll be kind, too. Also, you say say she's socially awkward but thinks she's smart. People who are socially awkward can have average intelligence, less than average intelligence, more than average intelligence, or be actual geniuses. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Why do you connect them? Why are you putting her down? What difference does her intelligence make to you? Would you be hurt if she's actually smarter than you are? Why even make assumptions or bring it up? You say she's rude, but do you notice how rude your attitude is when it comes to her? How should she feel of behave around you? She probably knows how you feel about her. Do you live nearby? If she's socially awkward, does she even show up at places you go? I imagine it must be hard for her to do so. Think of her good qualities. Reach out.
(3) Laiv, February 19, 2017 12:58 PM
Back to the garden
This is the syndrome/attitude that pervades all of our society, if I don't have everything I have nothing." It goes back to the original sin that allowed the yetzer to be internalized. We every tree in the garden to eat from, accept one. The lie the serpent gave was a half truth, that Hashem said we could not eat from every tree, which was true since there was one we could not. So now as people we always focus on that one we can't have and loose sight of all the good we have in our lives, thinking we have nothing. This is one person in her life, how many great relationships does she have, including her husband. She is allowing this one relationship to define the totality of all her relationships. She is believing the original lie, if she does have it all she has nothing. She needs to see the lie and see the truth of the wonderful life she has. Perhaps in time, if she can find it in herself, even be grateful for her sister in law for helping her to be even more thankful and grateful to the wonderful life Hashem has provider her.
(2) Yael, February 19, 2017 12:08 PM
To the one with the fighting parents.
I think Emuna's right. You know what you have to do but it's so hard to do it! Because we all harbor this secret dream that we can "cure" our parents problems!
I agree you should hang up when they start kvetching about the other one but I don't know if you have to be so honest.
What about, "Oy, Ma, the baby's screaming. Bye! Gotta run! Love ya!"
"Oh, Daddy, there goes the oven timer! Gotta run get my dinner! Bye! Love ya!"
It's hard to realize it but, in truth, when we let people "use" us, when we become enablers, it's not so much about them as it's about us.
They have their problems, granted. But the reason we try to fix those problems and let them exploit us in this way (and I'm really good at this!) is because "helping" them feels good for us in some way.
You might want to try to explore your mind and ask yourself: Why am I doing this?
What do I think will happen?
What is in it for me?
What need does it fill for myself?
And then you could try to "talk" it through with yourself, and answer those desperate subconscious hopes:
No, they're not going to love me more.
No, the insecure feelings I have from my unstable childhood will not disappear if I "fix" them.
No, I cannot fix them.
No, this is not a way for them to show love or closeness. Actually, it's a way for them to exploit me and destroy my emotional health and exploit me.
Yes, sometimes it's painful to face the bleak reality but...there's no other way!
Thank you Emuna!
(1) Yael, February 19, 2017 11:59 AM
Thank you, Emuna, for your words of wisdom!
I think the one with the sister-in-law should go for therapy with her husband to work out this issue. This issue is really important. She blocks you and you're scared of bumping into her. She's really off.
I agree with Emuna that there's no point in your husband discussing this with his sister. But I think he should learn how to be more supportive of you regarding this issue.
He shouldn't spend time with her alone, or alone with her and your baby. The only time he should spend with her should be with you there as well.
When you're all together at family parties, you shouldn't be scared of her because he should be at your side every minute, schmoozing with you, laughing with you...
And he should politely ignore her as much as possible as long as she treats you this way. For example, he should say, "Oh, hi!" to her and then move on. If she says, "Oh, how was...?" He should answer, "Good, how are you?" and move on. He should move on to where you want to be, stand with you and hanging out with you and making you feel good.
She'll soon learn that if she wants a relationship with him and the baby, she needs to be decent to you. Either she will or she won't.
I don't think he should spend time with her without you. No schmoozing on the phone, going out together, etc.
I don't think your husband will have the strength to do this without therapy because he would have by now.
He probably feels sorry for her, or close with her, or whatever it is he's unwilling to give up this relationship for you.
I think you should go for help together regarding this issue.