Dear Emuna: Daughter Gone Wild

I would call this mother and tell her that she owes my daughter and me an apology. It is rude to make fun of people and their physical attributes. I would also add that I would never dream of telling her that her daughter looked like the fat woman in the circus. Rude people like this should not be dealt with kid gloves. They need an assertive response. Because their daughter is fat, they had to put down someone else. They need to be put in their place. IT is best not to maintain a friendship with these people. They cannot be trusted to stab you in the back with comments.

If the good group of students is going to remain together for years this is extremely beneficial to a child in every way with potential life long friendships. Much more to gain than what a good first grade teacher has over a mediocre teacher.

in my early twenties i essentally divorced my parents. i was angry because they weren't perfect parents and i wanted to be out from under them and to live my own life. as i started living that life i started making my own mistakes and learning that i wasn't perfect and that life was hard. i started wondering not about how my parents could have done so many things wrong but how they managed to get so many things right. by my thirties i was back in the fold and speak to them several times a week. they are my friends and its great. parents get a grip.get a life. there was a time-i would hope that you and your husband was complete in yourselves. before midnight feedings and school trips and all yout money went to tuition. take this vacation from having your children central to your life. have a good marriage. join a gym. travel. pray. your children will come back. it seems to me that you have been given so much. what a blessing to have a child that was such a joy that she is missed in her absence. baruch hashem

If the child who divorces her parents enters into a life that will detrimentally influence her siblings if she returns then she should not be encouraged back unless she makes complete teshuva. It's an unfortunate but tragic situation

If a parent shows the other children that their love is conditional on teshuva, that will be far more detrimental to the other children than a sibling who is a potential corruptive influence. Hashem doesn't wait for a person to turn their entire life around in order to be accepted - a person who is making a choice in the right direction is considered a tzaddik in that moment. (ie Eliezer ben Dordia) Any competent Rav you ask would tell you that a child who feels their parents' love is conditional will never return. (In most cases, the child felt this earlier and this is what causes them to "go off".)

Children who witness correct hashkafos exemplified by their parents are resistant to negative influences because they know that every person was created b'tzelem Elokim and must be treated with respect, but that a Torah life is the best life that can be had. Children who are loved unconditionally and who see a home where Torah = simcha would never find the life of an off-the-derech friend or sibling to be appealing.

Best to ask da'as Torah (someone big in chinuch) before making such statements.

Take heart that your daughter is very young and has a whole life a head of her to grow in maturity, wisdom, and spirituality. If you can manage not to chastise, threaten, and give her guilt-trips, while keeping the door open, you will likely see a change in your relationship for the better, even if it takes many years. It is likely that your household was way too strict. I came from a chaotic family that forced a strict religious lifestyle upon me. I was neve good enough. I ran the other way once I went to college. Emuna have a beautiful answer. Take it to heart and search your heart for your mistakes. After some time, write a letter to your daughter. Invite her to write back and express her feelings about her upbringing.

Warmth and putting one's house in order so that it is a pleasant place to come home to is the only answer. You may want to know of our experience. Daughter left to save the world, married a person from a different culture and has a horrible marriage, but stays because she is such a good person. As for her Jewish heritage, it took until her child was born to insist on a bris, and only now is returning home with the child every Friday night. She now wants my husband to teach him how to say kiddush. There is an article on Aish on intermarriage, and it does appear that after age 39 these young people have a spiritual awakening. Often too late for themselves. Understand that the pull of the outside culture with the nightlife, beaches and young people living together is very strong. Pray that your daughter lives a clean life, compliment her on her positive behaviours and then go on with your own life. You cannot live hers, and you cannot let her choices ruin your health.

Sure, but this only works if she wants to come home. No amount of warmth will help if she is not willing to accept it.

I disagree with the fac tthat the teacher is more important than the peers. As a child i remembered more the experiences with the kids than with the teacher. A teacher can teach about math,science and english , but children can teach bad manners,bullying,and other negative qualites. I would choose the better kids.

As the Sages say"when I say I love fish, what so I exactly mean?" that Itake care of fish and make their conditionds for living better,or I just Looove eating it!, Not far from it is our love to children, '"ust" to love isn't enough,because we are born with the egoistic form of love-Mothers wants their sons to be doctors, and don't care what their sons wish to be etc, as a matter of fact in psyciatrics,there is a syndrom called"jewish mother", more than that?ARE we going to pretend that it's our children who have done wild?.The point is that if your child shows you disrespect, or runs away,it means that there must be very big problem in the family and the problem is with the parents in the first place and not their children,so as the article says start praying for the imporvment of the relationships with your children, and work HARD!!! to correct yourselves as parents!Just love isn't enough,we should LEARN to love in a bestowing way,which means to know what our children's intrests and need are,what their fears are, their frustrations, lack of confidence and a lot of other things which later will come on us as their protest from us growing them in this wrong way!There is Mitzva to respect your parents, so if it were natural to respect them, why the Torah then would make a Mitzva of it? To show that though the parents are far from being worth respected, anyway! for giving us a birth and nursing and giving us their care the way they knew to do it,and even if the parents haven't done even this minimum, this Mitzva teaches children to be able to love unconditionally,So, dear parents!, before we start to pray,let's think over,what are we going to pray for, and we'd better start with the prayer for our personal correction lack of which made our children to leave us in the first place, or the false Hessed which brought to being an egoist,or a child which witnessed our incorrected attitude to parents, what ever the reason is,start from the begining, start with yourselves!

Please don't discuss her choices with friends or relatives, especially in a nasty way or report that she isn't living as you want her to. And please don't tell her that her choosing to leave was wrong and that you are dissapointed in her. Kindly explain to her that while you didn't go out on your own when you were her age, that you love her and want her to be independent and wise and make choices that will serve her well. Educate yourself about how she is living so you can understand her. If you don't quit thinking about what you want, and not try to understand exactly what she wants, you could lose her forever.

I am the "loving sister." Thank you so much, Emuna, for responding to me and for your inspiring words. I will try to show my sister and her family how much I love them, and do my best to model a kind and loving Jewish family. I feel more peaceful now, and able to accept that this is out of my hands. I will keep praying about it.

Its your sister's business what she wants to do, no one else's. Butt out!!!!!

i live in france where most jew do the bris!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry if I happen to offend, but most kids do get jobs and move out at the age of 20. I understand being upset, that's a big change, but it's not unusual for kids to move then.

I am not sure you understand. Leaving the family at age 20 for school, a job or marriage is not the same as shunning and "divorcing" the family.

I have the same situation, only my daughter comes home, tattoo and hickeys and all. She isn't affecting any siblings because she doesn't have any but she comes home, it's her choice. The door is always open no matter what new crazy stuff she tells me she's into, thank God no drugs...I used to ask myself 'where did I go wrong?' but that's a pointless question really, because we have to move forward. My service of God and faith and trust are stronger than ever, and my prayers are from the heart. After all, my daughter is Hashem's daughter too. Where did I go right? Well, there are lots of places and we talk about them on good days. All her yeshiva education, the magnificent shabbosos and yamim tovim are in her hard drive, and may it be Hashem's Will that when she finally crashes from all this nonsense, she'll really come 'home' and ask me to start again. All Hashem does is for the best, and if it's not the best, it's because we're viewing it wrongly. It will be revealed good just as Hashem wants it. Good luck through this agonizing anguish, and with God's help we will celebrate together very soon.

How anyone not take care of this for a new born, I will never know. Yes the covenant, but the benefit of cleanliness and healthiness for males and their wives later in life is monumental. All the Gentiles I know, do it. My husband now passed away, was "not". We had to be very careful about cleanliness. So my advice, get it done! I always say, if he Jews say do it, pay attention. It comes from G-d.

My thinking was, "Oy, what if he has to get it done later (for health reasons, if nothing else)?". Oy! Ouch!

Dear Heartbroken, I certainly agree with Emuna. You love her, so show it unconditionally. Remember, she can never depart from her home training. It might take a little time, but stand on the promises of G-d for her life. She will return to you. Pray, Pray.

In regard to bris my friend had the proeducre done at age 30 for cleanliness and worry of cancer. As for the daughter I am a child that returned to the faith now age 59 in one month

I have a beautiful, very frum sweet daughter who is angry at me and my husband and wants to move out. Shesays we don't listen or understand her. We don't know where this is all coming from. Did we give her too much; we're not perfect but we really try. Help

It seems that our kids are doing what they want and when they want with or without our guidance or permission. No parent is perfect, but your loving home is all she knows and she might be very stifled which translates to anger. Maybe she just needs to go to Florida for a few days! My daughter has gone the way of the writer's daughter and who knows if she will come back, but here's the thing. Clearly, our children have to go through certain pain and suffering to themselves, which is inflicted on us. So it's up to us to find a new connection to the Borey Olam, through our own pain and suffering as a result of our children's choices, We are meant to be suffering, clearly, so take something upon yourselves as a team and show your daughter that no matter what, you will get through this stronger than ever before. Hatzlacha!

For reasons I can't explain, today sometimes children teach parents what they need to learn. If an "adult" child wants to move out and take on the world, sometimes its best that you let them do that rather then shelter them for life. Leaving a loving door open is the job of a parent no matter what the age of a child. However, today we live in a world where children are growing up fast and giving them a little leeway to choose their own path in life could be quite the experiacne they need to mature and gain a real perspective on life. Working , paying rent and taking care of oneself is a good thing, and yes, maybe you can pray that she find a good guy and live happily ever after too. But be positive and supportive and have a little emunah, and it will all work out for the best.

No child goes bad for no reason. I suspect the parents had/have a narcissism problem. It's very common. They should get their own heads checked out and work on their own problems. That's important in itself, and it's also the best thing they can do for their relationship going forward with their daughter.

sharon, you are so self rightous and all knowing. most of the times kids leave home it's due to many variables. blame the parents is only one reason and very rare at that. my wish for you is that you are never tested with this type of situation. read my reply to chaim #6. and pray alot for compassion.

Not sure you are for real. Our forefather Abraham had a son Yishmael. Yitzchak had a son Esau. I guess in your analysis both Abraham and Yitzchak were narcissistic. For some reason G-d did not tell them to get their heads checked out and work on their own problems. But you have no qualm in dishing out a diagnosis of the problems. A bit more research/education on this topic will go a long way in getting you to help people rather than destroy people.

Unfortunately, I would have said the same as you a year ago. Our studious, devoted, loving daughter (was 18 at the time) and sister has "gone to the dark side." We saw its beginnings and did everything for her including professional help for her and the family. She chose to listen to the wrong people and chose the wrong path. We pray for her every day, but are devastated, barely functioning. Your comments show lack of compassion. There is never only one side of the story.

Too much assumption, or you are postulating facts not in evidence. In addition, no one can definitively say that "no child goes bad for no reason". There are evil people, and there are truly 'bad' children. If anything, I would say that most often, there are external forces that cause a child to stray. Of course, many parents, regardless of whether they are narcistic or not, are the true or root causes of children going 'bad'. Reminds me of what Rodney Dangerfield said to his son's friend in the movie Back to School. The friend has died his hair blue, and Dangerfield says: "I think you're trying to get back at your parents"...

Are you a parent by any chance? Because from your comment it doesn't seem to show you have many, if any, knowledge of childraising. The way a child turns out doesn't always reflect the parent. You could have children who go the wrong way who come from a wonderful loving family and you could also have the other way around. Blaming the parents on "having narcissism" is not only inaccurate, but it's cruel as well. You have no idea what sort of parents they are and have no facts to base your statement on. Get a grip on yourself. Learn some Derech Eretz on how to talk to people and don't judge anyone for you're not in their place!!

No bris for nephew ? I feel your sentiment. However, its the choice parents are entittled to make, right or wrong. Just love and enjoy your nephew and say a prayer that with or without a bris , he will grow up healthy and be a pride to his family. Who knows, one day he might just decide he wants it and may just get it done.Your prayers will have been answered.

Contact the closest Chabad shaliach and see what he can do or suggests.

i wholeheartedly agree with ms. braverman. been there, too. do everything to stay in touch with your dtr and let her know she's loved and welcomed home when she's ready, daven alot, cry when you feel like it (in private), find a support group (such as MASK) of parents going thru the same/similar situtations and keep your spouse and other children at the top of your love list - create a normalcy as much as possible even though the situation with your wild dtr seems to overtake everything else in your life. trust in Hashem, He's kind and even though you don't feel like it, you will grow from this experience as will your dtr and become a better more sensitive, spiritual person. with Hashem's help she'll come back. accept my hug - you need it. so do we all.

Thanks for your comments. I take some comfort in knowing that we are not alone.

Explain to me, please, why this doesn't say to her other children---whoooopeee time! There is not one word here of (the mother uttering) condemnation, criticism, of it being a violation of the values the daughter was taught. That it is WRONG. The best advice is--IMHO--to condemn and not give an inch, and to privately communicate to her, preferably through a third party, that the door will maybe not be open for her, but at least it will be unlocked.

chaim, you are so wrong! ....... we live in a world where the outside is so very enticing! not everyone has the strength to withstand the temptations. some succumb to them ........nevertheless..... we have to be forgiving. if we are not - then why should Hashem be forgiving of us? the parents have their nisayon, the sibling have a different nisayon, the dtr has her nisayon. she has to know that when she's ready she can come back (with restrictions, curfews, whatever) otherwise, she'll be lost to the jewish people forever. may you never have to deal with type of nisayon. no one is immuned to kids straying nowadays.

Don't you think she has heard a million condemnations & criticism? It accomplished nothing. So if its the child we care about then Emuna's approach is the only approach which has a chance to work. If on the other hand, its our egos we care about (it is embarrassing to have such a child, etc) then your approach is guaranteed to work - the daughter will leave her heritage and our egos will continue to inflate. I guess you are OK that on Yom Kippur you state "ad yom moso techaka lo" but you won't give this daughter of Israel the same latitude which G-d gives you. Evidently, this girl is being challenged by forces beyond our understanding, as such, we family & community in-turn are obligated to shower her with an over abundance of authentic love and over time, as Emuna says, with prayers things will work out just fine.

After 6 months of trying to "compromise" with our "wild" 18 year old.. we have now gone this route. We are still devastated, but the other children are much more loving and understanding of us.G-d willing, when sue returns, she will respect us for standing by what we believe.

Chaim, you're a ridiculous person with archaic and depressing views of life and family. I sincerely hope you don't have children that need to experience life because you'll just reject them. Pretty sad.

I agree with Emuna wholeheartedly. We also have a daughter who left home at age 20, got a job and is living a life different than ours. At times it's very difficult for me to hear what she's been doing. But, as hard as it is to hear, I'm thankful that she talks to us, respects us and keeps in close phone contact. And I pour my heart out to HKB"H and daven for her daily. It took years to not feel like a failure as a parent for my kids not all turning out "frum" but I realized that Hashem gave us this child as she is and He gave her us as parents. We keep the lines of communication open between us and her and us and Him. She knows that we don't always approve of what she does but that we do love her and that, no matter what, (and there have been some BIG "whats"!) we're there for her. She's only 22 years old and she's come a long way. My advice to "Heartbroken" is don't give up hope. Your daughter is young; give her time. Like Emuna says, keep the lines of communication open, make sure she knows that you love her. And regarding your other children and your marriage - just because this happened with one of your kids doesn't mean that you're a bad wife or mother or that you've failed. Keep working on all of your relationships to the best of your ability and with Hashem's help you'll grow from your experiences.

This is a wonderful response!

I shall state the basics. 1. Sit down with your spouse and talk about what took place. Be honest with each other. Share your hurt. Can you understand your daughter's point of view at all? This is not a blame game. This is a time of sharing, even crying. 2. Have a talk with your other children. Be honest with them. One of the worries is that they too may follow in their sister's footsteps. Ask them how they feel and what they think. Do not judge them. They are in a lot of pain. Most likely they are communicating with their sister and they know a lot more than you do. 3. Review the laws of lashon hara and follow them when speaking with your children, your relatives and each other. This is especially important as it pertains to your daughter. Although there are exemptions I would take the high road at all times. I can assure you that this will pay big dividends later on in your relationship. 4. You must be part of a community so there could be embarrassment. Since I do not know your circumstances I cannot advise you, but I would do everything I could to minimize the damage. There are ways of presenting this without making it seem as if she has joined a circus or something. "Just like other young people who grow up she wants to try life out on her own. She wants to see if she can make it on her own." I am not advocating lies but I am advocating that you have a story without lies. 5. You can love her without loving her lifestyle. This should ensure communication and that is probably the most important thing for you right now. 6. Do not judge her. All the principles which you have given her are there. They will come to fruition. Trust Hashem. 7. As Mrs. Braverman said, pray and all shall be well.

My father did not want me to have a Bris when I was born. My mother had no opinion on the topic. My pediatrician was fortunately an observant Jew. He convinced my parents that I should have a Bris. He used the following logic: You do not know what your son will want to do in the future. He may want to become a Rabbi, an observant Jew, etc. You are making a decision for him at birth that he may regret in the future. I am married to an orthodox women for 42 years, am on the Executive Board and Board of an orthodox synagogue, have a son who graduated with highest honors from Y. U. in religious studies and Torah Observant Children. Fortunately, the physician used logic that my father and mother could not disagree with.

you must get your daughter married especially if she is out of the house now.this is your only answer.

I strongly disagree, Yacovah. The daughter is obviously rejecting the life that her parents wanted for her. And now, if those parents force her to get married, to would be like sentencing her to the life that she rejected. I strongly agree with Emuna. Besides davening, the parents need to continue to love her and show her support. Sometimes children go through stages like this. Even if it's not a stage, she is their daighter, and hoepfully, love of famiy will supersede everything else.

Love and warmth and kindness with understanding. Communication and no guilt will keep the door ajar. Forced parental desires will only deeper the rebellion now. Emunah Bravermans words are wise and truthful. You hurt and you did not fail . Society offers mistriths and the triggers to exploration of different lifestyles are many. Love keep the doors open and keep her in the family loop a neshama is a me shams and you regard her as precious as she is and she will know this and grow

Yakovah, the whole point of this mother's letter is that she has lost any control she once had over her daughter's behavior. To try to exert control by pressing the daughter to marry will only increase the distance between mother and daughter. When a child is 20 years old, there is an inverse relationship between power and influence. The more you recognize you have no power, the more likely it is that you will be able to influence your child.

I'm french, and I can say that not only are there circumcisions there, but even boys born to a gentile father have their circumcisions done (I mean that there are such fathers who accept it.)... There are many good Mohalim there. You should maybe call the Beth Din of Paris.