I want to share a web with help to quit this addiction for jews. A summary would be realise the situation, online tools to assist, and some videos of what the Torah says about it.

I got engaged to a porn addict. He watches porn at work and everyone's knows about it. How can I deal with this shame? Is there a real path to recovery?

Regarding the question whether it's advisable to speak to a therapist, I don't think the answer is the same for each man. Many men find that this problem is like an addiction that resists their best efforts to overcome it alone, or even with the help of a 12-Step group (valuable as such groups can be). Therapy is widely available now by Skype or phone, and you might find one in in another country such as Israel, where therapy is somewhat cheaper. GuardYourEyes has a number of recommended therapists. There are also therapists who can help where the porn being watched is linked to specific attraction issues, such as homosexuality, bondage, or fetishes.

If my wife would come to my office and snoop in my computer, this would wreck our relationship. Years ago I looked at occasional porn when I was feeling down, but now it is under control. It is like when I was in my twenties, I would walk in the magazine aisle and look at the dirty magazines, but I felt bad every time I did this and eventually made a Kabbalah to not go into those aisles. This is a problem I have that will never automaticly disappear, I always need to be on guard to do what is right and not fall into a trap. (It does help that my wife says yes when I want to get into bed with her). In reponse to the other issue in this topic, the answer is wrong, the family needs professional help asap. There is no way that the husband will get his wife to listen, the habits are too ingrained. They need a professional who will teach them to be positive and not negative, who will skillfully point out to each partner what they need to do to improve their marriage. The husband doesn't know how to talk to his wife, so trying to talk to her will get nowhere.

Avoid treating him like a pet, child or trying to control. You are dealing with a man. Like a lion, once he's eaten- his appetite is filled. Now, if you want a kitty cat for a husband, that's going to require medication and then you'll also probably be dissatisfied with that too. Sex is chemical, hormonal. You're best off taking advantage while you can. Secretly, most women wish they had a lion at home.

There is a line from the Talmud which teaches the opposite; the more one satiates,the hungrier.....it's the self-discipline of holding back sometimes that makes the delicacy far more enjoyable.

Your reasoning is quite immature. Most times men don't look at porn just for sexual reasons alone. There's a whole lotta other stuff behind addictions such as these, such as buried aggression and anger towards women, past molestation, depression, etc. if you'd take a poll you'd no doubt find that those looking at porn are in no way "deprived" in the bedroom with their wives.

you don't know what your talking about.PERIOD!!!!

To all of the women who responded with such vicious condemnation of the husband who was caught watching porn, I would like to ask: How careful are you that your mode of dress complies with the strictures of halocho? Are you equally judgemental of women who do not dress in full accordance with modesty laws as you are of men who view inappropiate imagery? Many of you have certainly heard of the importance of these laws, and your reaction at that time may have been to become defensive, thinking that men don't understand women, their nature, and their needs. You are right, we don't. Men are not driven to make themselves look attractive. Men don't preen themselves as women in front of mirrors. Because it's not our nature. But the same is true about women not understanding men. Women do not have a drive to look at immodestly dressed women. They therefore cannot possibly understand this drive that men do have, just as men cannot understand them. Yet, G-d, who created both men and women with these drives, does understand, and He is the one who established these rules for both men and women. I am not justifying the behaviour of the husband, just as I would not justify the behaviour of one who speaks loshon hora, but in truth, the husband's actions are of less severity than the other, who transgresses numerous sins in an active manner and lengthens our exile. Yet, one would not suggest therapy in the second case. Ultimately, it is the husband's sin - between himself and G-d. I applaud the author for her recognition of this, although I believe that it is irresponsible to write to the wife that her husband must see a therapist, except in cases of true addiction Should women who dress inappropriately undergo therapy as well??? As in the case of any aveiroh, the repentant must learn mussar to strengthen his yiras shomayim. He must establish a relationship with a Rov and seek his advice. And his wife must support him with love and understanding.

To Anonymous putting things in perspective I agree with you 100 percent. Seek help from a Rav, learn Torah, Join a chabura, read books on guarding your eyes no need for a therapist. Therapists are over rated and expensive.

Yes, supporting with love sounds like a wonderful suggestion, but please advise the wife how to deal with her feelings of betrayal, loss and hurt!

Great article regarding how to deal with addiction but I feel that the title of the article is a bit too blunt. There might be young kids who are online and don't know what the title means and chas veshalom google it then by mistake go to the wrong websites. Again this was a great topic since lots of people go through it and don't know what to do. And the fact that the topic is blunt may get lots of traffic to that article but I still feel the topic should have been a bit more "modest." This is my opinion.

There's a very important element missing in all the comments that I've seen. No one is mentioning the effect of peer pressure here. Although it is possible that this husband went looking or found this site on his own, chances are that he has friends or coworkers that either introduced him to the site or encourage his interest. If that's the case, therapy and condemnation isn't necessarily the answer. If this husband is feeling lonely (and even married people can sometimes), try giving him more of your own time and undivided attention. If he's looking for a relief (distraction) from stress, try suggesting other outlets. Give him credit for what he has already done, remind him of his successes, not of his failures. Then, if he's amenable to it, suggest that he pull out a sefer instead of the cellphone. If he's not the type to turn to that, encourage other hobbies, even video games (not the type with half dressed women fighting monsters single handedly, that's not just realistic, it defeats the purpose). Puzzles and creative use of the mind is an excellent way to build your mind, and take your mind off of stressful situations. So is reading material that challenges your mind. Be careful about the suggestions of friends though. They may have your best interests at heart, but they may not understand the situation well enough to give sound advice and may inadvertently hurt the situation instead of improving it. Don't get angry at them if they do though. Remember that they care about you and only have your best interests at heart. Damaging friendships will only make matters worse, as their support can get you though a lot. A good friend is better than a piece of chocolate any day of the week.

As someone who went through this and suffered tremendously, you have oversimplified it and all its implications. Most times, men who have this habit are NOT doing it because their wives are unwilling partners in the bedroom! Nor is it because their wives have let their looks go, or any other typical excuses we like to believe could be true. Many times, it is indeed addiction, and very difficult or maybe impossible to stop! To simply say, try having more hobbies together, put on a Nice new dress and some makeup when he comes home, compliment him, etc. will probably all fail. He does for sure need serious therapy, and don't be surprised if he resists it altogether (too shameful to talk about, or more likely, He really DOESNT WANT TO, OR FEELS HE CAN NOT, GIVE IT UP!). Yes, men have a strong physical drive, most times stronger than the wife's, and many times they don't have the fortitude or simply the will to resist. Speaking from my own experience, I feel for this wife and don't want her to have unrealistic or false hopes for a positive outcome which may very well not come. MANY TIMES, this addiction results from the husband having been abused as a child, or suffering some other trauma in childhood, etc. She should get HERSELF help from a Competent therapist to deal with her own terribly hurt feelings of betrayal (yes, whether he intended to betray or not, those are the wife's resulting feelings!), of "not being pretty enough" (this is almost always how the wife feels, although a husband's porn habit has little, if anything, to do with wife's looks, or frequency of intimacy with the wife). She needs therapy to regain her self esteem, to learn how to deal with her new and painful reality, and to assess whether she can indeed learn to trust again, IF the husband can and will make himself trustworthy again! The road is a painful one, and only she can know whether this will doom the entire marriage, as it did in my case. Good luck.

Need clarity.This is a psychological not a physical problem. Addiction may well apply if one defines the word addiction loosely,as a very powerful force that pulls one in an unhealthy direction. [he's addicted to sweets]It is similar to the way some use holocaust loosely to describe horrors inflicted upon one group by another,while others define the term to mean only the war of extermination against the Jews by the Nazis and their accomplices. It seems to me that when the bible states that we can choose life or death choosing life means utilizing free will to do what is right.Choosing death is using free will to do what one feels like doing whether it is right or wrong,often rationalizing that it is OK or that one is helpless/addicted. I believe that it is within one's power not to visit porn sites. Those currently ensnared who are truly committed to changing need to know themselves, and take appropriate precautions. They may need professional help. In a society where viewing porn is acceptable behavior, and even mainstream hotel chains offer adult channels [average viewing time per adult movie rental 8 min] it is a challenge, but without the possibility of failure there is no growth possible. It seems to me one should be grateful for the opportunity to conquer ones demons[yaitzer hara] and grow accordingly. According to our sages in messianic times one will be clearly aware of the damage done to ones soul by such behavior.Then one would no more choose to indulge then one today would utilize their free will to walk into a fire.

To any wife who is going through the challenge of being married to a sex addict join Miriam's call every Monday and Thursday evening. For more details you may join the forum at the Guard your eyes site. You could also email me personally to miriamgye@gmail.com

interested in more information

marjoriem1@sbcglobal.net

Lets not give license by calling a man who delights in pornographic images of women an addict. By calling him an addict you are excusing a degree of this behavior by saying "he couldn't help himself". Horsefeathers!! Maybe he is a husband who loves to imagine sexual delights with women other than his wife. Obviously this is true, because he carries their pictures around with him everyday. Remember, at the end of every graphic image on the phone or on the internet is a real person who is connected to you. No one is anonymous. --------------------------------------- If he was an addict, the sex life in their marriage would not be normal. The wife would suspect his actions after a while, because he would need greater and greater time in secret to feed that addiction. Sad but true. -------------------------------------- Lets see what he did when his wife confronted him. He lied to her. He got angry with her. He feigned embarrassment. He defended his actions. And said he was trying to fix his actions. ----- You tell me... wouldn't the first fix have been to erase the phone sites that pictures other women? Shouldn’t his words to his wife have been, when confronted, “I love you and I will never do that again.” At the very least he would have Sounded sincere. ---------------------------------- As for the wife being wrong in looking at his phone.. Horsefeathers again!! HE brought other women into THEIR home. She had the right and the responsibility to rid their home of them. -------------------------------------------- And isn't that first step in fixing the problem also the last step before physical infidelity.... that of having connections over the phone or internet making plans and fanticizing? He’s not a porn addict, he’s an unfaithful husband. IMO

I COMPLETELY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE LITTLE UNDERSTANDING ABOUT ADDICTION, AS IS SO OBVIOUS BY YOUR RESPONSE. AND THAT IS WHY YOU SHOULD NOT BE MAKING THE COMMENTS YOU MADE.OVER HERE. THIS MAN IS NOT A BAD PERSON, HE IS A SICK PERSON. TRUST ME 100 FOLD WHEN I SAY THAT THE AVERAGE ADDICT (ALMOST ALL MEN WITH THIS DISEASE) HAVE NO BEEF AGAINST THEIR WIVES. IN FACT, THEY CAN LOVE THEIR WIVES MORE THAN THE AVERAGE MAN. AND YES, THIS IS UNDOUBTEDLY AN ADDICTION, IN ADDITION TO BEING UNFAITHFUL OF COURSE. PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT I DO NOT MEAN TO SOUND INSULTING. BUT THE CONCLUSIONS YOU JUMPED TO IN THIS STORY CAN BE SUMMED UP IN ONE WORD (IGNORANCE).

I don't believe I jumped to conclusions in this story. No where does the woman writing the letter say that her husband is an addict. That fact has been surmised here by others. Until he has been confirmed an addicted person either by his further actions, or by his unability to control himself in that one area, he is simply an unfaithul husband. And he is a liar, and according to the woman who wrote the letter, he has disrespected her, his wife. Doing those things in a marriage is not an addiction it is being unfaithful to his wife and not just unfaithful in an intimate way. She is his partner and she deserves better. If he has no beef with her why would he defend his actions, call her overly sensitive and in her words 'he stabbed her in the heart.' How are those the actions of an otherwise loving husband? She should be held in high regard no matter what else he does in secret. To Ari, I see that you are angry and that you think I wrote in ignorance. You have attacked me on a personal, What did I write that was not true?

You seem to be very judgemental and probably have no experience with this situation (luckily for you). His extreme reactions when hearing that his wife has found out about his secret, is a result of S-H-A-M-E!!!!! Can you not understand that? And yes I have to agree with the previous poster who said your comments shriek of ignorance on the subject,

I disagree with you. The issue of sex addiction is real and my husband has it. You shouldn't claim to know what's happening in this woman's home from her short letter. How do you know she isn't rethinking their intimate life together and only now realizing that his needs were in fact probably over the top? And even if not, most times the addict will try to hide from the spouse anything excessive he struggles with. You shouldnt make generalizations. And while looking at porn is a serious blow to a marriage, I'm sure most therapists and rabbis would disagree that with your conclusion that it amounts to infidelity. You really ought to be more careful with your words.

OBJECT V. PERSON It is not easy for a damaged individual, male or female, to transcend a damaged background, to relate to a wife or to a husband as human being and not an object and ideally as a zivug. It is not impossible, but, it is not easy. The Torah may be like a life-saving and spirit-saving straight jacket to an emotional epileptic. At times, though, it may be necessary to relax that benevolent straightjacket, as long as that benevolent straightjacket is not so loosened as to enable a descent into the abyss of spiritual, physical, and emotional darkness. As long as disease and crime may be ruled out of the immediate picture -- and even if they are not -- there may still be hope for the marriage, with proper help as needed and willing.

Here is a more complicated case to try to show that matters are not always as they seem. Some details altered to protect anonynimity. Wife -- unable to conceive due to illness contracted as a teen (NOT an STD!!). After trying for some years, she is finally told that it is "hopeless" -- "like trying to put a man on the moon". The alernative is adoption. Since that time, WIFE is far less "interested" in intimacy. This is NOT surprising (to me). We see (in the Torah) that a woman unable to conceive is devastated. The Netziv states that she FEELS that every act of intimacy is "just using her".... (see his comment by Rachel when she finally gave birth to Joseph)... However, HUSBAND now is in situation where he is "deprived" -- becuase WIFE is no longer really interested and HUSBAND wants a sensual partner -- not a duitful doll who "puts up with it". Licensed therapist suggests couples counseling for both. Wife is not interested... it is her "obsessed husband" who has the problem -- not her. I am not passing judgement here... only pointing out that something LIKE this could be at work in the case here. Do I know? No, I do not? But, NOBODY ELSE here knows either. Therefore, it does not seem appropriate to castigate the husband and treat the wife as the innocent victim. We need BOTH sides.

What I have noted -- in no way eliminates the need for the husband to attend to an addiction if one is there. Nor am I stating that "all men watch Porn once in a while". what I am asserting is that IF the woman has her own issues; IF the woman has been advised (in the past) to go to couples counseling; IF the woman feels that she is just being a "good dutiful wife" who "submits" to her husband -- there can very well be a recipe for catastrophe here. I do not believe that it is unreasonable for a man to "want" a wife who "looks forward" to intimacy and shares her pleasure with him. CHAZAL describe the husband's refusal to be initimate as a form of affliction. Obviously, CHAZAL understood very well that intimacy is expected to be pleasurable and pleasing for BOTH. For that reason, "ma'is alay" (i.e., he or she is "repulsive" to me [in terms of physical intimacy]) is considered a proper grounds for divorce. If the WIFE in this instance does not recognize that -- she could be a partner in the problem.

As noted in an earlier comment, there is not enough information here AND the answer was far too simplistic. There was no discussion of the woman SNOOPING on her husband by checking his cell phone history. Does that fact that she found something justify this? And, had she NOT found anything -- only then would it be wrong? Did this woman ask a Rav whether it was OK to check? Second, we do not know if the woman's "behavior" contributed in any way to the situation? Doe SHE have any issues regarding physical intimacy? One of the most marvelous things about Torah is that even as a man and woman are expected to -- in general -- "restrain" themselves. a MARRIED couple are given great license in sharing pleasure and intimacy. And, it is NOT up to the wife to "make her husband more religious" by being "extra chaste" in their physical relationship. I am NOT condoning the Husband's behavior. However, I AM saying that we do not have enough information here and -- WITHOUT "blaming the victim" -- the WIFE may very well be a "partner" in this episode. And, I see no reason to take the wife's "side" automatically as the "unvarnished truth". Without knowing more, the answer provided is not only simplistic, it may very well be destructive. Instead of attcking or defending the husband (or wife), we should note that there is not enough known and PERHAPS, the wife needs counseling just as much as the husband.

12 step programs? Therapy? I think people who intentionally and anonymously blow things out of proportion when there is obviously already a schism in a marriage are the ones who need therapy. If you truly care about the kiddushin of marriage you would not be clucking in judgemental and disproportionate ways that will only cause feelings of hurt to be doubled down on and lead to sufficient strife and embarrassment that it results in a get. That is where this will lead. You have a guy - a normal guy who is not addicted to anything or sick or any such thing who got caught by his insecure wife looking at some stuff on the net. She is now so incensed and insecure that she writes here looking for justification to not trust him again. That is already a giant warning sign that all was not well to begin with. In the mean time you justify her disproportionate rage and egg her on. I'm not saying she should not be upset. I'm not saying he should not care how she feels. But none of the comments here are about addressing anyone's hurts. Ok great so now, humiliated and trying to make peace, the husband is to be put through a shame fest. Brilliant... What exactly do you think the odds of that resolving favourably will be? But actually looking at the situation for what it is, must be ignored. No, it is far more important for the sanctimonious and uninvolved to anonymously add fuel to a fire. Perhaps such holy people should consider that. Such behaviour is forbidden in the Torah after all. Perhaps more time studying and trying to make peace and less time being prissy nebbishes is in order.

Your minimizing the wife's devastation and hurt ar horrifically ignorant and insulting, I read nothing into what she said in the same twisted way you did. Ty fading it again through the wife's eyes, and see her hurt and humiliation, and yes insecurity.i feel sorry for your wife if this is how you deal with her issues,

it's the yaitzer hara allowed to run wild. get rid of the internet, or block sites if need for work, move to a community where modesty prevails.other suggestions from a competent rabbi may also work. to put it bluntly the problem with most people is they don't want to change badly enough.itf it was possible to enforce it my guess is 99% of the people watching porn would quit if the knew that the next time they indulge they're kids will be taken from them or worse you'll see it cease. that is not true for real addicts.if one has a heavy heroin addiction he'll willingly lose everything: kids,parents wife etc and withdrawal is physical very painful and not only psychological. i don't mean to minimize the power of the yaitzer hara and psychological pulls but unlike with a real addiction there is no loss of free will. To quote rav nachman "eem roitzer oitzer"if one really wants one will do what's necessary"

Without in any way condoning the situation vis-a-vis the spouse, I believe your answer was simplistic. a. You don't address the fact that wife went hunting in husband's cell phone history -- without his permission. In this case, she "found something" -- suppose that she had NOT found anything? Does the result justify the action? It seems to me that a GREAT way to destroy trust is to condone the snooping (yes, it is!) of the wife. b. You have no idea of "where the wife is". As seen in 2nd letter, it is not uncommon that the WIFE may have "intimacy issues" -- and push them on to her husband. Have BOTH been advised to consider "intimacy counseling"? I am aware of at least one case where a respected frum licensed Social Worker stated BOTH husband and wife should go to "intimacy counseling" (suggesting a respected / sensitive resource) and wife had NO INTEREST -- because it is "husband's problem" -- not hers. Without knowing more, perhaps, in your first letter, there is a similar case. In such a case, is it better for husband to "visit" sites -- or find other (perhaps "worse") "outlets. AND, even as you note that the Torah "fences" the man because of his "drives" -- there is ALSO expectation of a wife being a sensual responsive [physically] sharing partner. A woman who feels that she is "OK" even while being unresponsive and [relatively] "cold" -- is being "false frum". Do you recall the talmudic statement that "he in his clothes and she in her clothes -- they should get divorced"? It seems clear that there is an expectation of a healthy initmacy between BOTH husband and wife (and the wife is NOT supposed to be a passive being "doing her duty"!).. I recall the recent Orthodox Union Survey of [Orthodox] Jewish families indicated the issue of "satisfactory" marital intimacy is a serious area of concern. Your failure to even CONSIDER this as a possibility (as well as your very limited response in the 2nd letter) appears to ignore and belittle this area.

I got the distinct impression from the wife's letter, and from her shock and bewilderment, that there had not been any serious issuesin the bedroom between them, as you're quickly assuming. Your assumption is entirely simplistic and looks to blame the wife, Had she in fact been aware that there were problems in the bedroom, she would've mentioned it and at least had some type of understanding of why the husband in indulging in the forbidden.

As the author said, men are wired very differently from women and women need to understand this. A man's attraction to a women's appearance is normal. Today a man would have to be dead or a saint not to be effected by the bombardment of women without cloths. Of course you want to deal with the issue, but don't think for a minute it is related to you as a person or your level of attractiveness as a lifelong partner. As your husband is probably neither dead as a man nor one of the 36 hidden Tzadekim don't worry, don't cry, don't get angry, empathize and help in the nicest way possible. Hopefully you can better understand why Chazal put on such stringentsies.

(Me excepted) Does anyone other than would be psychologists, sociologists or horologists respond these things? Are there no just plain ordinary people left?

There are 12 step self-help groups for the sexually addicted (like SA) and co-addict or family member of the addict (SAnon). Here, people who are experiencing similar issues meet to help one another. There is no obligation or fee to attend. Everyone's anonymity is respected in these groups. Just show up and see if it is helpful to you. Many have found the group a life-saver. There are free hotlines, on-line meetings, and literature available as well. If your partner refuses to get help, you can still get help for yourself. Its a family disease similar to alchoholism-- it can affect religious families. There is hope and recovery if you are willing to seek it.

Porn addiction is a form of sex addiction. The partner recovery groups available to suffering family members are listed here: COSLAA, COSA, S-anon, and SRA-Anon. These groups are 12 step anonymous fellowships that can offer a lifeline to the family members who are in crisis. All the best.

I know from experience. There are support groups for women who feel hurt and/or betrayed by their husbands behavior. Look in the phone book for a 12 step program that begins with the word sex. Call the anonymous hot line and leave a private (not shared with your husband) phone number for a return call. The rooms where these support meetings take place are filled with women whose husbands may or may not be addicts, and there are plenty of Frum women in them. The point is, this is for YOU. Your husband will find his own way if his life becomes unmanageable. G-d Bless You on your journey. You will soon find out that this issue is a Blessing in disguise.

How do you know it will turn out to be a blessing in disguise? I went thru this with an addict and am now going thru divorce. I don't see any blessing in it at all, just the feeling that I was tricked, misled and betrayed, Why offer false hope?!

though it may be normal for a man to watch porn, it is not proper for a husband to do so. When a man chooses to get married he is no longer a man. He is a husband and should behave like one. A husband does not betray his wife and ogle other women. He knows it's inherently wrong and thus the need to do it secretly.

Your wrong, it is not a betrayal for a man to get excited by images. It's normal. A man would have to be dead or a saint to live in todays world and not get side tracked once in a while. I'm not saying it's OK, but it has nothing to do if your husband loves you or not. The world, the advertising world and man kind knows the beauty of a women is hugely powerful, for one to think a man who gives into what Chazal do their best to protect doesn't understand a man and doesn't understand what love between a husband and wife is compared to a man looking a pictures of beatiful women.

FROM THOUGHT TO SPEECH TO ACTION.... It is said that a holy woman can transform a man dominated by his Yetzer Hara. You must speak to a competent Rav to find out what this may mean in the context of your marriage -- even transformation by separation or divorce -- as his behavior affects your, your marital relations, your family, and your community. At one level, having come from the background you described of him, your husband is challenged with transcending a background of degradation to a background of holiness. Does his connection to pornography help him to keep his sense of self grounded, or does it prevent him from achieving spiritual growth? Does the time he spends attending to pornography take away from his attention to you -- his wife -- and to his family, work, and studies? Has something happened to him -- or not happened for him -- that causes him to take refuge in pornography? Is his involvement in pornography active or passive (i.e. does he engage in extramarital sexual relations with other women, or men, or children?)? Is there a risk that he will bring home sexually transmitted diseases or criminal activities? Is your marriage a true marriage or in his case a cover for his true self? His use of a telephone for the purpose of engaging in pornography may in itself say something about his activities. Bottom line: you may or may not have a marriage in need of salvation, and you may or may not know your husband; you do need professional help including Halachic advice from a competent Rav. Menachem Av is the time for the comfort of these commentaries and the commentaries of your friends. Elul, the coming month of reconciliation before HaShem, is the time to explore the depths and truths of your relationship with your husband, and is the time to do so with the aid of rabbinic and professional help. Tishrei is the month of Din in which occurs Ha Yom Din. Hatzlacha Rabba.

How many women that complain about their husbands watching porn, have subconsciously decided when they were satisfied with the number of children they had, and have "given up on sex" because they have their children and it is no longer necessary? All relational things are 2 party things. If you deny sex to your partner, you just might be fueling what you call an uhealthy activity. IF you want your partner to change, what are you willing to change in yourself to enable your partner's change?

Why is it that most of the comments from the men assume that the wife is withholding marital intimacy???? A ridiculous assumption and too overly simplistic. Many times the husband dos have desire for more than he's allowed to indulge in and has zero to do with the wife!

Just had the pleasure of seeing several of Joe's eloquent and gentle responses to my comment. First Joe goes on a rampage against the victim and calls her snooping, controlling, demanding, angry, judgemental, spying etc..Subsequently, when I try to defend this woman who is suffering he reacts by bullying me as well. Hey Joe, did you ever think of attending an anger managment class or taking acupuncture.

Many sex therapists use porn to help their patients increase their desires. Porn is a part of life, ancient as ancient Egypt and Rome where the wealthy had porn rooms. In Pompeii for example. Men are different than women and they easily separate their fantasy lives from the real. Porn from the real. There is ABSOLUTELY no harm in porn other than what one fabricates...or makes a mountain out of a molehill. A large part of the Internet are porn sites. Men and women are different from each other. A romance novel is woman's porn. The same thing. A man is visual, rather than emotional, and therefore their porn is visual, unlike the romance novel. Think about it this way Deeply Hurt. If your husband suspected you of infidelity or the desire for an affair from your reading a romance novel, how would you feel? Do you think you should see a therapist for it?

Clearly you're not a religious Jew because otherwise you'd know that it is forbidden and consider a grave sin.

Watching porn once in a while is something most men do, particularly with the arrival of the internet technologiy, porn addiction is sick and should be treated

Well, I wouldn't like it, I'd hate it, but much would depend upon what sort of porn-if it was hard core, then something must be done urgently, I agree.No, people shouldn't snoop, but we all do-or have. To assume that he's an addict is a bit much, but if it's distressing his wife, surely he can do without it. Why not simply say that you find it very distressing, not that he's a dirty dog ? Most people become defensive when they're accused. Easy to say, I know.

Why do you say, assuming he's a porn addict is a bit much? Do you not know how many sex/porn addicts there are out there?

Why shouldn't Jews watch porn? Because, it's the Torah perspective not to. Women need to separate the "aveirah" of pornography from their marital reality. First, Let's not kid ourselves and equate pornography with adultery or some other form of marital distrust. It's not. In fact, from the Torah perspective, even a man being with another woman is not halachic adultery. In the case of the writer "Despairing", she states "Is there any hope for our marriage, because right now I don't see a future." Give me a break. Is the pornography affectiving her marriage? Is the husband more interested in porn than her? Is he a "sexual addict"? Men like to look at porn. Some men have a problem, but most don't. Why shouldn't men look at porn? Just one reason for a Jew, halacha is against it. All other reasons are irrelevant (not "psychological", not "social", etc.) - Judaism is the divine arbiter of objectivity. The Aish response to her was "There is definitely hope, lots of hope – as long as your husband is sincerely trying to address and change the situation. " I have seen many husbands and wives where one is frum and the other is not (or much less) and they live their happy lives. If a husband watches porn it's his personal aveirah, no more/less that a non-frum spouse eating treif or not observing shabbos. If "Despairing" doesn't like her husband watching porn, well, too bad, she doesn't have to know about it or make it her concern -- if it's not affecting their relationship overtly negative, then the problem is hers not his. She can either deal with it or leave.

a little porn to spice up life may not hurt many marriages but the woman in this article is interested in a holy relationship where whe is the exclisive receptacle

The woman in the article needs to decide a) Do I want a "holy marriage" and leave my husband and destroy my family, even though it may not be causing any discernible problems except for the fact that it "bothers me" or b) I ignore it as a character flaw. Sometimes we don't always get everything that we want and need to learn to make lemons from lemonade. That's the mature relationship.

Let me guess..,.youre a man, correct? Well duh. You assume the woman should just be able to ignore it and swallow this minor inconvenience of having Been betrayed by her husband. Total idiocy,

Porn is destructive; it lets in an general un-wholesome and anti-family attitude about sex and affects the relationship between the husband and wife. My husband is a porn addict, has been since long before he was frumm or married. I did not know about it until after we had our first child. I should have left then, but I stayed and I suffer. Our sex life has become pathetic; he is not invested in real sex anymore, only porn and blames halacha, saying that halachic restrictions (which are few) are a turn off. I think it is better to transgress a few restrictions (not taharas ha mishpacha, of course, but others) and be with your wife than commit the aveiras that he is committing which are chaev meisa. But I know that it is just an excuse, as are so many things that he says to try to appease me. There is the constant justification of a typical addict, sounds like the guy in the article. Maybe he is not as hard core as my husband, but let this go another 10 years and he will be. You are not over reacting. This is a serious problem that will affect you for the rest of your married life. Unless he is very sincere in his desire to stop and wants to stop for himself, it is unlikely that he will. He will never do it for you. You need to decide if it is something that you are willing to live with. I know I don't want to live with it, but my children deserve an in-tact home. As long as it does not affect them, I will stay around. If you have no children yet, think long and hard about what you want out of your life and your marriage.

"I did not know about it until after we had our first child." Interesting. looks like you didn't have a problem with the porn until you found out. It's wrong that people give advice as though their experience was the de facto experience. Your marriage, your problems. others with the same problems may be able to relate but by no means does it mean that everyone who enjoys porn has those problems. This is what is twisted with many kiruv professionals and why they fail -- condescension. Avoidance of the rationality that someone's non-halachic lifestyle is actually making them happy and working for them constructively -- whether kashrus, shabbos, taharas mishpacha or porn. A G-d fearing Torah Jew may not agree with it, but one needs to deal with reality. My rebbe takes the rational approach. He was asked to give a drasha about intermarriage, and why not intermarry. His answer? "Why not? It makes them happy. There is no reason unless you follow Torah." This perspective is not rationalization or apologetics but reality. I'm sorry that some people's lives didn't work out as they thought, but people need to stop projecting their experiences onto everyone else.

I don't know the ages of your kids, but if your husband is accessing porn online, are you not afraid your kids can stumble on it too, after his father has left a trail ? Don't doubt it, I'm to,d it's a real strong possibility, from a. Marriage counselor who we consulted with about this problem..,

i don't think she would want her husband thinking about other women when her husband is with her, then he will be only using her body.

What a horribly insensitive diatribe! I can't imagine what kind of husband you are, if you're lucky enough to have a woman who was willing to marry and stay with you. What about her feelings? I can tell you as a wife who went through it that yes indeed it can and does destroy marriages and our marriage counselor told me that it sure does in many cases. Obviously you've got no he estanding at all of women and their emotions, and your lack of sensitivity to boot makes you sound too ignorant for words. For a woman to feel happy in a marriage, and to feel desirous of physical intimacy, she must feel a sense of security in her husband's love, respect and attraction to her, never mind needing to feel a Bond of trust, For men, the physical part is much different, as all the previously mentioned requirements for a woman, most times aren't necessary for a man to be able to participate in a physical relationship. Once that bond of trust is broken for the women, you can be sue it can spell the end of the marital relationship as it did for me, Please stop speaking for others when you clearly lack the understanding to be able to comment intelligently on the subject.

As someone who has been through something very similar recently in my own marriage, I recognise all too well your husband's justifications and rationalisations about his porn use. "It's normal'', 'It's nothing to do with you', "lots of men do this". His apologies may be sincere, but you must make sure they translate into action. Why? Because repeated use of pornography is addictive and, as a great many studies have shown, it leads to increasingly distorted thinking about women in general. Men who use prostitutes for example often start with an addiction to porn. It is all part of the same mindset of seeing women as sexual objects, rather than as human beings. I am not surprised you feel it has affected how he is with you sexually. This is what first alerted me to the fact that something was going badly awry with my own husband. And again, it is well documented that men who use porn routinely over time start to want their partners to fulfil those same degrading and dehumanising fantasies. Your husband must want to change for change to happen, but I also found that educating my husband about the destructive impact of regular porn use helped him to see how he was harming not only our marriage but also himself. One last piece of advice: be wary of any therapist/counsellor who tries to normalise porn use or who dismisses it as just something men do. If it's not OK for you, it's not OK. Be willing to forgive but not if the cost is too high to your own integrity and happiness. Good luck.

You noted that User of Porn has degrading fantasies... however, that may not always be true. What happens if husband is NOT asking for a fantasy but feels that he has found "something" that might make matters more pleasureable for the wife.. As the halacha states -- there is quite a bit of leeway in the husband's physical interaction with his wife. I am NOT "normalising porn" but -- at the same time -- one should not jump to judge too quickly that the husband is being "degrading"... AND, it is important to understand that perhaps the WIFE has her OWN "hang-ups" which could also benefit from counseling.

I can see both sides to this argument. We do not have enough information in this story regarding the couple with the porn addiction. Is it just a once in a while thing? And if it is then why is it on the phone? Wouldn't it be better on TV in privacy of the bedroom? Does this behavior interfere with the family activities or work activities? Does it take away the much needed time between husband and wife? Also, regarding the wife "snooping" on the phone, as one commentator stated; when 2 people get married, they become ONE. There should be no secrets. The husband and wife should be able to go thru each other's phones, emails, etc. That's like the right hand trying to do something and keep it private from the left hand. You are a unit now. This doesn't mean that one or the other can't go out and do things for themselves; but there should be no hidden anything. This is what I learned from living in a 10 yr marriage with an addict-people must be so careful in choosing a partner. I also could not make my spouse change and unfortunately for me and our boys, we faced a terrible divorce.

I disagree that spouses can simply go hunting in each other's stuff. While they are a singel melded unit, they are STILL individuals -- perhaps [we hope] with the same goals and aspirations. However, they are STILL different people and EVERY person deserves SOME core of privacy. Not necessarily because they are hiding anything but because they are individuals. It is regrettable that Elana had a terrible experience with an addictive spouse. However, that still does not justify breaching someone else's privacy. The only exception that I can see is if a Rav specifically allowed it.

I have to agree with the last post...these issues are incredibly deep. Certain personalities definitely will always con and always defend themselves. They seem to have an inability to relate to repentance. But, true repentance is where the healing starts. It may be worth watching and waiting for the light to go on with her husband. But, if the waiting lasts too long and humility is never expressed, she needs to know that, for her own well-being, she may need to separate. Acknowledging, too, the comment about BPD and retaliation - this can be true. All things need to be approached prayerfully.

Just because the wife found evidence of porn doesn't mean her husband is an addict. How often does he watch? Does it interfere in their relationship? (It does now, obviously, but that's because of the wife's discovery of it, which in no way means I'm blaming the wife.) It also interferes because she can no longer look at him or trust him. Some couples enjoy adult films together. "Normal" couples. So long as watching stimulates both partners, what is the harm? So long as adult entertainment isn't integral to their sexual experiences and expressions of love, it doesn't have to be bad. A man's sex drive is stronger. It's a biological fact, like it or not. It should not be an excuse for deviant behavior, and the only reason I can see (from the information presented) that this is deviant is because it was hidden. I think it's a bit alarmist to declare this man an addict and suggest psychological counseling. Some may disagree and point to the husband's embarrassment and promise to "fix it" as proof of his guilt. Perhaps he felt it needed fixing because of the wife's response. A calm conversation is what's needed. A sharing of honest feelings. Pointing fingers is pointless. Assigning blame does nothing.

I am pleased to see the topic of porn addiction come to light here. I am the ex-wife of a man who would occasionally (so I thought) look at pornography. I rationalized this away and thought "he's a man." In a traditional Jewish relationship, as stated above, we seek to guard our eyes and not to view people as objects in an effort to keep our desires focused only on our spouse. However, there is a distinct difference between the rare look and the addiction to porn, where one is powerless over his/her desire to lust and look. For me, what originally was excused as a "normal guy thing" turned out to be an addiction. I had no idea that such a thing existed. While I am not suggesting that the husband above has an addiction, it does (understandably) raise a red flag for the wife. To minimize her reaction, in my opinion, lacks compassion for the wife who may feel betrayed that her husband does not "only have eyes for her" and has chosen, on more than one occasion, to re-visit the site(s). Her feeling of anger, insecurity, and concern is understandable and needs to be acknowledged. While I was married and slowly began coming out of denial about my own situation, a good friend initially suggested a 12-step program, S-Anon. Here, men and women gather who have been affected by the actions of others who may be addicted to porn, sex, fantasy, etc...With internet accessibility at our fingertips any minute of the day, combined with everyday stress, some turn to alcohol, drugs, shopping, or porn. It may be "just an escape" or an addiction. There is help. I began attending S-Anon meetings initially to help him, and then, ultimately, to help me with my own pain. Trust can be re-built. With both parties working on their own and together, it's possible. Our marriage did not survive, but many have. I wish all those faced with such challenges the strength and clarity to help themselves & the courage to take the actions necessary to grow and develop solid, healthy relationships.

Yes, apparently it is quite common for men to see porn occasionally but when it becomes a habit, it can be quite dangerous.How would men take it if their wives had pictures great bodied men around the house ? I'm sure they would feel very insecure. Please you men out there, understand that women feel the same way. You may not act on your urges but still is a stab in the heart.Your wives have borne children, breast fed them and after 20 years can you expect them to have the same bodies ? By the way, do you guys look the same 20 years later ??

I was married to a porn addict who acted out with prostitutes. Finally, (after 7 years), I found enough self-respect, with the help of da'as Torah to divorce him - the marriage was a nightmare. Its NOT normal to continiously watch porn. It means he is giving in to his desires which are superficial anyway. Nobody deserves to live in fear, lack of respect and no trust.

Whoa! Hold on a minute. Sounds like this article really touched a nerve in these first two responses! Attacking the wife is unacceptable. Let's get one thing straight, she is the victim here! Ms. Braverman writes that this does not have anything to do with his caring for her and his commitment to her. I will disagree with that. If he truly cared for her and was committed to her he wouldn't be doing this to begin with. It's called Character and Integrity! Having lived with an addict for 25 years and trying over and over again to save my marriage, I finally hit rock bottom and am now divorced and I couldn't be happier. I spent a quarter of a century, trying to make things better. My husband at the time, would sometimes agree to go to therapy, however he would end up conning the therapists. He would make countless promises to change, but he was not able to sustain any of these promises for more than several days at time. Finally, at the very end of my traumatic marriage, my husband was officially diagnosed as a sociopath. It is very important to understand that there are many addicts who are sociopathic and who will con those around them to get what they want. It is very important to see if her husband has a Personality Disorder which is virtually not a treatable condition. I know that in the Jewish community, marriage and family is prized above all else. The marriage I had though was a sham and I lived a lie for many years. I am much happier living on my own than living under such toxic conditions. Remember, if there is no trust, there can be no marriage. May God give this woman the clarity and the strength to make the right decision for her spiritual and physical health. There is nothing worse than a broken heart and there is nothing more empowering than breaking free from a toxic and abusive marriage!

You are clearly a very bitter person. I am saddened to hear such obvious anger and pain in your words that you feel the need to attack people you do not know and project your angst onto a situation that is likely nothing like yours. You seem to positively exult in tearing this man down and screetching that he can not be trusted. In reality, the man apparently surfed a few sites from his smart phone. This does not make an addict and it certainly does not make a sociopath. Since he was obviously trying to do his surfing privately, he did not intend to upset his wife. She is no victim in the melodramatic sense of the word you are using. She was not assaulted, battered, cheated on or any of the things that actual female victims in bad marriages suffer. There was a line crossed only in as much as he looked at something he should not have given how much damage it could cause his relationship. Even so, that is more between him and Hashem than him and her insecurity. As for your use of psychological terms, I would suggest that you not project your own harsh feelings from your own failed marriage onto this case. I further suggest that you not try to take vengeance on your ex husband by trying to poison this relationship further. Given the anonymous cruelty of your remarks, you should be ashamed.

It is very clear from what you write that you are still dealing with a great deal of pain and anger from your own situation. I am very sorry for you and hope you find happiness. Please do not project the bitterness you obviously feel on people you do not know and who are in a situation that is nothing like yours if your description of it is accurate. At worst, the man looked at some pictures he should not have on his smart phone and had no intention at all of hurting his wife's feelings. This does not make him an addict - and since he tried to hide this from his wife and not hurt her feelings - he is certainly, and by definition, not a sociopath. You are so angry and hurt, that you are taking malignant glee in anonymous cruelty by exploding a situation in someone else's marriage. It is disgustingly irresponsible to imply that this man is irredeemable, does not really love her, has no character and can never be trusted. What you are writing is unfounded vitriol that will only stoke this girl's worst fears. If she gives in to your projected yetzer ha ra, she will come down on him to an overblown extent that really will jeopardize her marriage. I didn't write that she has no cause to be hurt. I wrote that she needs to talk to him and explain why she is hurt and ask him to refrain. But on the other hand, she is clearly, snooping, controlling, insecure and prone to blow things out of proportion. She is not a "victim" in the melodramatic sense that you use. Wives who are actual victims have horrible stories of abuse, beatings, emotional battery and worse. You are just a bitter woman looking for vengeance by proxy on a husband you already divorced. Leave these people alone.

As someone intimately familiar with the workings of guardyoureyes.org, I strongly recommend that this husband - and all those who are defending him - check out the site. Porn is NOT 'normal', although desire may be. Not everyone who watches it is an addict, but either way, lowering the beauty of sexuality to an animalistic level is demeaning to everyone. Instead of dragging down (and destroying) marriage by LOWERING oneself, why not raise the most intimate connection between husband and wife? Sexuality was created as the ultimate gift to a couple. Dont give up on each other, or yourselves. (By the way, Guard Your Eyes has separate forums for men, spouses and women.)

To the wife who feels like she has been "stabbed in the heart" after snooping on her husband's phone: You are being very naieve if you think most men don't have sexual fantasies that involve women other than thier wives. All men do. The only question is does he act on those fantasies? Does he have inappropriate relationships with other women? If not and of he is kind and treats you well than you should be grateful and also ashamed for snooping and being so self righteous.

You are low and have no faith in men it dont take a snoop to figure out if someone is looking up porn a jewish marrrige is based on one sexula partner and one only I would be very deviststed had I found what she had and it dosent see like her husband is very cearin g eather telling her that she is over reacting on some thing he ovbeously knew was a big enough deal to try to deny

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder Be careful if you decide to divorce! BPD-sufferer can take terrible revenge and make your life hell!!!

Every men watches porn once in a while, it is not so terrible and does not interfere with a happy marriage. Women cannot understand actually what men feel, no matter a doctor or a shrink

Let me start by saying that in no way am I defending looking at dirty pictures or going to argue that a man should risk temptation by doing so. That said, the histrionic response of the writer and the heavy handed response of the rebbitzen are a recipe for disaster. "Yes, he’s humiliated and embarrassed. But this issue must be addressed" Uhhh huh... nothing promotes a healthy marriage more than a situation where a man is spied on by his insecure and way too innocent wife and then browbeaten and humiliated - and has it suggested to him that he has an addiction, and is sick enough to need therapy, for being a normal man. That was sarcasm. This is a terrible idea. If you go in guns blazing with all that hurt and recrimination and then demand he be humiliated further by suggesting he is crazy and needs therapy *as a test for your satisfaction and a prerequisite for your trust, he will come to resent you. If you just simply can't get it out of your mind and you continually meet him with harsh judgement and recrimination fuelled by your own insecurities - great enough that you spy on him - he will come to resent you. If you demand tests and outrageous lengths before you can treat him civilly or be intimate with him again - most men would come to resent you for it. What you can do that might be productive is 1. Forgive him. 2. Tell him in loving terms why this hurts your feelings and 3. Ask him to refrain. I wish to strongly impress upon you that there are at least 10,000 steps between looking at the occasional dirty picture and having an addiction and another 10,000 to seeking a mistress. However, facing the wrathful recriminations of an overbearing, judgemental, spying and angry wife are an effective way to push a man to those steps.

This prior comment seems to me a defensive one written by someone who perhaps himself looks at an inappropriate site on occasion. However, there is a real addiction to internet porn which has been amply studied and written about -- the New York Times for example had a lengthy magazine piece about it -- and there is an international 12-step group which addresses it. Many who suffer from this addiction never take the next step of acting out with a non-spouse, but even the activity of looking at internet porn itself can be extremely damaging to one's primary intimate relationship, as it provides images which can't be replicated in daily life. Anyone who finds themselves repeatedly looking at this type of material when they are angry, bored, or otherwise uncomfortable is likely using it as an escape from unwanted or unmanageable feelings, and needs some kind of help to learn to manage those feelings or the person is going to check out more and more. Certainly, the wife needs to let the husband choose among the treatment choices and let the process work, and not browbeat him about it, but to suggest she just get over it is not respectful of the kind of marriage most women want to have with their spouses.

A strawman is to ascribe an argument not made by someone to them and then tear it down. Where did I say she should just get over it? I said: "What you can do that might be productive is 1. Forgive him. 2. Tell him in loving terms why this hurts your feelings and 3. Ask him to refrain." Now as to your very real addiction... please.... Heroin is a real addiction. Gambling is a real addiction. I am not saying that this is nothing especially given how upset this made the wife, however, the language you are using is divorced from reality. I'm also impressed by your assumption that I might be one of "them" since I am not following the derisive and histrionic clucking line you would prefer. Nice cheap shot. I'm just curious... how repressed, fearful and judgemental are you?

My impressions from your comments were similar to the previous posters, your justifications, excuses, denials of the possibility of addiction, blaming the wife, negating of her feelings, and telling HER what SHE should be doing for her husband, all smack of you being one of those men. Your self righteous attitude and defense of the husband all sound self serving. Good luck to you and your wife, if you still have one.