Dear Emuna,
My husband would like to add a second sink and dishwasher to have separate ones for meat and dairy. I'm not 100% sure why I'm against this plan, but I have a lot of reasons. The main underlying reason is that my father (unintentionally) ingrained in me that people who have a lot of money and spend it on things that our family can't afford are bad people. Getting an extra sink and dish washer seem like luxuries. It's expensive; it causes jealousy; we should be happy with what we have.
I am happy with the kitchen the way it is (and I do 99% of the cooking) and I'm nervous that changes will causes things I don't like. Why mess with a good thing? (I like having elbow room and adding more appliances by definition means there will be less space.)
I also grew up with one sink, and my husband grew up with two, so obviously what we're used to influences what we think is reasonable. I think new fancy things are exciting, but I just can't bring myself to do this one. I've read about great rebbetzins who didn't want fancy things in their home, even when they got them for free. I'm not a great rebbetzin but the concept is something to value.
Is this one of those situations where you're just supposed to give in to make your husband happy? He's kind of annoyed that I'm not getting with the program. Growing up, my father usually had ideas about things he wanted to change in the house, and my mother didn't always think it was a good idea, but he usually "won" and then later she would always say even though she hadn't wanted it, it turned out to be a good idea. Is that the right way to do it?
Confused
Dear Confused,
So am I! You have mixed up so many different ideas in here that it’s hard to know where to start. It seems that the main issue (as you acknowledge) has to do with your father – both with his philosophy about spending and his domineering way with your mother. Those are serious psychological impediments to looking at this situation objectively.
Your husband is not your father.
But even more problematic, they are serious psychological impediments to looking at your husband objectively. He is not your father. It is unfair to lump him in the same category and/or make judgments about him based on your experience with your father. I suspect that this is not the only area or situation where that issue plays out and that’s something you need to work through in order to give your husband and your marriage the fair chance they deserve.
I really should stop here because I think this idea is so important and takes precedence over any other issue you raised. But since you wrote, I will address some of your other concerns as well.
Of course, we should be happy with what we have; that is not a contradiction to purchasing new possessions that may enhance your life – either in beautifying mitzvot or in making life easier. I don’t know where you live but I see that in many neighborhoods two sinks and two dishwashers are not considered luxuries (true confessions: I have two sinks and two dishwashers and I am very grateful for that fact!). I think that an extra sink and dishwasher fall into the category of making your life easier and freeing you to spend time with your husband, children if you have and to engage in learning and other spiritual pursuits. You can continue to enjoy and appreciate whatever it is that you have!
I don’t think you should judge yourself by people you read about; you don’t really know their circumstances or challenges. You need to do what works for you in your life – and aspire to grow based on who you are, not who they were – and certainly not based on a book’s depiction. If you would really find it inconvenient to have an extra sink and dishwasher (hard for me to imagine) then that is a compelling reason not to get them, but my guess is that, once installed, you will enjoy the freedom they provide.
It seems that you have a lot of prejudices and preconceived notions of what’s appropriate. Not only do you need to work through (and let go of) the negative influence of your father but you also need to figure out what you believe and what you want, who you are and how you want to live. It’s good to have role models but it’s also important to be realistic and to know when a particular philosophy applies and when it doesn’t.
One of the best ways to determine this is for you and your husband to sit down together and discuss without rancor (and without your father’s hovering psychological presence) the kind of home you want to have and the values you wish to embody and how that will work practically. It’s the kind of conversation that all couples need to have and it’s actually wonderful that a relatively trivial issue (sink and dishwasher) will allow you to delve more deeply into your united goals and aspirations, with emphasis on united.
(14) Branda, September 9, 2020 2:39 AM
I think it is wonderful to remember and learn from your father in
Today’s insane world . 0h, extra Sinkextra. Dishwasher, how about
Another kitchen, then you CAN cook and clean and serve more and
Be a little faster. Really Emua how about a little more time for her.
(13) Yehupetz.com, September 8, 2020 2:45 PM
Having two dishwashers and two sinks is a luxury that you can live without, but they make life easier, and there is nothing wrong with spending on things that you can afford that make life easier.
(12) Shoshana-Jerusalem, September 7, 2020 9:13 AM
accept your husbands gifts
Dear Ladies,
If your husband offers you a present, take it! And thank him. It's wonderful to have a husband who is a giver. Also if he offers to help you with something, accept his offer even if you can do it yourself and don't need his help. Husbands who are givers feel so much satisfaction from giving to their wives, and both of you will be happy and it makes a beautiful marriage.
I thlink that we women are so used to being the givers that we forget how to be receivers. It's not a sign of weakness.
(11) Jeff Allan, September 6, 2020 6:13 PM
Introspective view of where each spouse wants kedusha to go
Good day, the points raised and commented on are valid. Perhaps the issue, is the fact, that of kedusha and where either hold. This is one mitzvah that goes further than a dishwasher. Wanting to perfect a mitzvah, may be a priority for the husband and hence he feels that total separation of crockery would beautify it, There is no value too high on a Mitzvah well done. To what level are other Mitzvahs kept.. This is a holistic decision for both spouses, just my opionion
(10) Jewish Mom, September 6, 2020 8:24 AM
Sinks and dishwashers - two different categories
If you are not vegatiarian, two sinks really does make life a lot easier. As Poster #9 Rivka pointed out, it is the norm in Israel even in very small kitchens. Two dishwashers does seem to be more of a luxury if your kitchen is crowded and if ethically, you want to live a simpler lifestyle. One dishwasher would make your life easier but it's not as much of a necessity as 2 sinks. I would not lump the two together. Maybe consider on a compromise that would leave both you and your husband feeling good about the joint decision such as 2 sinks and maybe also 1 dishwasher - either for dairy or meat depending on your heavier use.
(9) Rivka, September 5, 2020 10:54 PM
Two sinks in a kosher home - not such a luxury...
I grew up in a home where there was only one sink - and where wasteful spending was strongly discouraged (both because my parents didn't have so much at that time and because my mother had been brought up in an especially thrifty home). But when my family made aliyah, we moved into an apartment with two sinks (prety much the norm here), and it was wonderful! We even had two dishwashers at first, but when the dairy one broke, my parents decided it wasn't useful enough for us and never replaced it.
My husband and I, about a year after getting married, moved into an apartment with only one sink. There were quite a number of issues with that apartment, but it was dirt-cheap, and we were really tight on money. Even so, that was the only issue that really made me pause. We did have two basins (sink inserts) that we switched in and out, but frankly, it was a real pain, and especially after our baby was born and we were constantly washing bottles, we pretty much stopped eating chicken / meat (which I love) because it was so difficult with the sink situation. I breathed a MAJOR sigh of relief when we moved to our own apartment with two sinks - for me, that is really not a luxury in a kosher kitchen.
Just want to add that I don't have any dishwashers (haven't had since we got married) - for me, that IS a luxury, not to mention that there's no space in most Israeli kitchens for even one, let alone two. (but I certainly don't begrudge anyone who does have one or even two, especially if you have big families)
The only person I know who has no problem keeping a kosher kitchen with one sink is a relative who's a vegetarian! Every time we go to his house, I fall in love with the simplicity of having only one sink, one set of pots and dishes, etc. - but at the end of the day, vegetarianism is really not for me. So if you do eat / cook both meat and dairy, I think you'll be amazed by how much easier your life is with two sinks.
(8) Joan Betesh, September 4, 2020 2:04 AM
I have a lot of respect for "Confused"
"Confused" sounds like a lovely person whom I'd like to get to know. She is wisely focused on only one issue, as to which there is no "right" answer. She respects and loves for her husband. I don't see a problem with her father, either Certainly love and respect are most important. The luxury of 2 dishwashers makes life easier for some families (if they can afford it). Their children are getting used to a lifestyle that might not be feasible in adulthood- when they might not have the money or the space for 2 sinks and 2 dishwashers (and who knows what else). Simplicity is the wiser choice in many areas of life. Our community benefits from leaders who set an example of a simpler life. This is not something I read about in a book but experienced in my family, my husband's family, and from wonderful rebbetzins whom I know personally. On the other hand - 45 years ago, my husband suggested getting a microwave. I resisted at first, then we got one, and I loved it! So, there's no "right answer" - "Confused" and her husband can talk it through, or maybe table it for a while, until they reach a decision. Best wishes for a happy, healthy year (regardless of how many sinks, dishwashers, cars, etc.)
(7) Carl Dworman -Mexico# 55-322-309-4731, September 3, 2020 6:55 PM
Number of sinks
I have four sinks and four dishwashers. Certainly need the extra two for Passover. This is not a luxury but a necessity as far as I am concerned. Any comments about this. (My next door neighbor has a special sink and dishwasher for traif. I think this is going a little bit to far. Carlos
(6) Ruth, September 3, 2020 3:25 PM
We, the Yiddish’s, always separate milk and meat, in our meals etc. Having separate cooking and cleaning items, such as basins to clean utensils, and means to cook our meals is a conclusion we don’t think about. We don’t mix. meat and milk..
(5) Anonymous, September 3, 2020 12:48 PM
Profound insight
(4) Anonymous, September 1, 2020 2:40 AM
Keeping kosher with one sink
You can use 2 different basins (at different times) in the sink for meat and milk- you don't need 2 actual sinks in order to keep a kosher kitchen.
Also, the sink itself may not be a luxury, but the price tag of taking apart your kitchen to shift everything around and make room for another sink, is how it can become a luxury.
Anonymous, September 8, 2020 10:54 AM
To commenter #4 Anonymous
I completely agree with you. We actually renovated our kitchen around the time of Hurricane Sandy, but unfortunately my husband did not (and still does not) want to kasher our kitchen. I still hope he changes his mind, but I do not intend to tear up my beautiful and functional kitchen to install a second sink. My kitchen is medium sized, but I have a small family and there are certain dishes I actually prefer to wash by hand. Also, after Hurricane Sandy had occurred MANY people needed to replace their appliances so there were not a lot of choices to be had. I recently bought a new dishwasher which is on back order. It is my mission to work with the tools I have at hand. Hopefully my husband will come around so that I can finally have a kosher kitchen.
(3) OK, August 30, 2020 7:53 PM
Two sinks
Living in Israel, you would be hard pressed to find a strictly kosher home that didn't have 2 sinks! It's very standard in Israel and of course we have 2 sinks as well (no dishwashers though as I just don't like them!) I personally don't think it's a luxury at all, but rather a practical necessity. On another subject, I have the opposite problem - I often feel the need for new items, be it furniture, appliances, kitchen gadgets/utensils etc., but it's my spouse who refuses! Grrrr :-))
(2) Shoshana-Jerusalem, August 30, 2020 1:51 PM
two sinks
I don't think I've every heard of a kosher house with only one sink. I do know some people who bought old apartments from way back when they did only put in one sink but they right away add another one, even if they can't afford it. It's certainly not a luxury. As for dishwashers, I only know one person who has one and she puts it on a empty betwen meat and milk.
Rachel, September 3, 2020 10:39 PM
Maybe in Israel, not in US
For the first 10 years of our marriage, we lived in rental apartments that only had 1 sink. When we bought a house, we made sure to get a double sink. We also have 2 ovens.
Even kosher families have to adapt to what is available.
(1) Nina Kotek, August 30, 2020 10:21 AM
I feel like you
Reading what you wrote seemed very familiar, I'm naturally resistant to change and was also brought up by a modest, economical father, who scrimped and saved and made do ( but paid for a transatlantic trip for the whole family to visit my mother's parents every 2 years ) and feel virtuous doing without. I dress mostly second-hand.
My husband likes to buy new things to fix problems, be up-to-date, and have appliances for every need. He keeps trying to get me a bread-baking machine because I occasionally bake bread.
I have the same space concerns you do.
However, if you want a second opinion from a sympathetic person ( who, like your mother is at least sometimes happy to have been given something she didn't think she needed ), a second sink does not seem to be much of a luxury, but rather standard, and very useful, especially when keeping kosher. The dishwasher is more of a luxury, but perhaps you could deal with it if it were half-sized, and stacked on the other one to take less space?