New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg delivered the following speech on August 3, 2010 at Governors Island, off the tip of Lower Manhattan.
We've come here to Governors Island to stand where the earliest settlers first set foot in New Amsterdam, and where the seeds of religious tolerance were first planted. We come here to see the inspiring symbol of liberty that more than 250 years later would greet millions of immigrants in this harbor. And we come here to state as strongly as ever, this is the freest city in the world. That's what makes New York special and different and strong.
Our doors are open to everyone. Everyone with a dream and a willingness to work hard and play by the rules. New York City was built by immigrants, and it's sustained by immigrants -- by people from more than 100 different countries speaking more than 200 different languages and professing every faith. And whether your parents were born here or you came here yesterday, you are a New Yorker.
We may not always agree with every one of our neighbors. That's life. And it's part of living in such a diverse and dense city. But we also recognize that part of being a New Yorker is living with your neighbors in mutual respect and tolerance. It was exactly that spirit of openness and acceptance that was attacked on 9/11, 2001.
Of all our precious freedoms, the most important may be the freedom to worship as we wish.
On that day, 3,000 people were killed because some murderous fanatics didn't want us to enjoy the freedoms to profess our own faiths, to speak our own minds, to follow our own dreams, and to live our own lives. Of all our precious freedoms, the most important may be the freedom to worship as we wish. And it is a freedom that even here -- in a city that is rooted in Dutch tolerance -- was hard-won over many years.
In the mid-1650s, the small Jewish community living in lower Manhattan petitioned Dutch governor Peter Stuyvesant for the right to build a synagogue, and they were turned down. In 1657, when Stuyvesant also prohibited Quakers from holding meetings, a group of non-Quakers in Queens signed the Flushing Remonstrance, a petition in defense of the right of Quakers and others to freely practice their religion. It was perhaps the first formal political petition for religious freedom in the American colonies, and the organizer was thrown in jail and then banished from New Amsterdam.
In the 1700s, even as religious freedom took hold in America, Catholics in New York were effectively prohibited from practicing their religion, and priests could be arrested. Largely as a result, the first Catholic parish in New York City was not established until the 1780s, St. Peter's on Barclay Street, which still stands just one block north of the World Trade Center site, and one block south of the proposed mosque and community center.
This morning, the city's Landmark Preservation Commission unanimously voted to extend -- not to extend -- landmark status to the building on Park Place where the mosque and community center are planned. The decision was based solely on the fact that there was little architectural significance to the building. But with or without landmark designation, there is nothing in the law that would prevent the owners from opening a mosque within the existing building.
The simple fact is, this building is private property, and the owners have a right to use the building as a house of worship, and the government has no right whatsoever to deny that right. And if it were tried, the courts would almost certainly strike it down as a violation of the U.S. Constitution.
Whatever you may think of the proposed mosque and community center, lost in the heat of the debate has been a basic question: Should government attempt to deny private citizens the right to build a house of worship on private property based on their particular religion? That may happen in other countries, but we should never allow it to happen here.
This nation was founded on the principle that the government must never choose between religions or favor one over another. The World Trade Center site will forever hold a special place in our city, in our hearts. But we would be untrue to the best part of ourselves and who we are as New Yorkers and Americans if we said no to a mosque in lower Manhattan.
Let us not forget that Muslims were among those murdered on 9/11, and that our Muslim neighbors grieved with us as New Yorkers and as Americans. We would betray our values and play into our enemies' hands if we were to treat Muslims differently than anyone else. In fact, to cave to popular sentiment would be to hand a victory to the terrorists, and we should not stand for that.
We would betray our values and play into our enemies' hands if we were to treat Muslims differently than anyone else.
For that reason, I believe that this is an important test of the separation of church and state as we may see in our lifetimes, as important a test. And it is critically important that we get it right.
On Sept. 11, 2001, thousands of first responders heroically rushed to the scene and saved tens of thousands of lives. More than 400 of those first responders did not make it out alive. In rushing into those burning buildings, not one of them asked, 'What God do you pray to?' 'What beliefs do you hold?'
The attack was an act of war, and our first responders defended not only our city, but our country and our constitution. We do not honor their lives by denying the very constitutional rights they died protecting. We honor their lives by defending those rights and the freedoms that the terrorists attacked.
Of course, it is fair to ask the organizers of the mosque to show some special sensitivity to the situation, and in fact their plan envisions reaching beyond their walls and building an interfaith community. But doing so, it is my hope that the mosque will help to bring our city even closer together, and help repudiate the false and repugnant idea that the attacks of 9/11 were in any ways consistent with Islam.
Muslims are as much a part of our city and our country as the people of any faith. And they are as welcome to worship in lower Manhattan as any other group. In fact, they have been worshipping at the site for better, the better part of a year, as is their right. The local community board in lower Manhattan voted overwhelmingly to support the proposal. And if it moves forward, I expect the community center and mosque will add to the life and vitality of the neighborhood and the entire city.
Political controversies come and go, but our values and our traditions endure, and there is no neighborhood in this city that is off-limits to God's love and mercy, as the religious leaders here with us can attest.
Related Article: Do Not Build the Mosque
(127) Anonymous, June 17, 2018 6:08 PM
The Mosque invades the street and is not limited to the building alone
the Mosque attendants not only limits themselves to the building, but they are known to on Fridays invade the street close by and not permit the traffic to go by, with the end result being a disruption in the near by streets.
Also this will be too close to 9/11 location, and there is no denying that Islam had lots to do with that.
(126) vern pickard, June 12, 2018 7:43 AM
Mayor Bloomberg's multiple references to the Constitution
Mr. Mayor, your vocal support for the Ground Zero mosque, makes multiple reference to the U.S. Constitution as if its something you revere. Yet when off camera, you spend an inordinate amount of your time & money (as well as tax payer money) in attempting to undermine this the greatest of foundational blueprints, being the Constitution of United States of America, specifically your almost daily efforts to eviscerate and eliminate the Second Amendment, which you spend tens of millions of dollars on annually. And so it has become apparent when you often attempt to hide the numerous aspects of your more clandestine initiatives, all of which, like your personality, are chock full of contradictions. But Sir, the Constitution is not to be cited when and where it suits you or your personal agenda, especially when in your next breath, it becomes the focal point and target of your criticism and attack, as this clearly evidences your great contempt for this archetypal document, the foundational blueprint for the creation of Greatest Nation ever to exist. Especially not at the whim of your questionable character & ethos.
(125) Anonymous, October 3, 2010 1:18 AM
the moslem religion is not what it used to be
the moslem religion is one which is based upon evil plans for not moslems. in all moslem countreis other religions are not accorded the proper freedom. they do not look upon non moslems as humans but as sub humans. their type of activity tell you what they are. of course there are a few exceptions but they are few and far between. when a mosque is built it is for the prupose of proclaming vicdory. do you know that when the twin towers were burning down, the arabs in the middle east were throwing candy to celelbrate? they did not express remorse or sorrow or sympathy but they did express their joy at the great victory against the USA the enemy of Islam. they murder and murder . when they exchange prisoners, they receive 500 live arabs in exchange for 2 dead non arabs. is this justice? is thie morality? they clearly state their purpose - to islamise the world. they want the non moslem world to adapt their laws shariya. evern the archbishop of canterbury said they are right. He must be crazy. the church should but him under a ban and replace him. the pope wore a kaffiya when he came to arab sites. he should be dismissed for wearing non papal robes. you see, the non moslem world is being duped into becoming pro moslem. the world is losing its sense of normalcy. moslems do not react to love with love but with hate. they lynch innocent people even amongst their own. they murder their own family members. they live on the sword. they claim that the koran says things which it doesn't say. they lie and lie and lie all the time. they put up a man who is a holocaust denier as a moderate arab. they want leaders to shake hands with a man who both financed and orchestrated the murder of innocent olympic participants. they say one thing to the world and mean the opposite. they are basically terrorists. they want their chldren to grow up to murder innocent people. this is the truth. let them build a mosque
(124) BK, September 23, 2010 11:22 PM
Get over it
I have served along many American Muslims over the years in the military, at not once have I ever believed they were any less worthy of locating their religious institutions where ever they want in this country. I don't fight for this nation so that Muslims can be relegated to some ghetto or marginal class the way our folks were in the Pale or during WWII. Regardless of fringe or even mainstream ideologies we may find distasteful about Islam, any willingness to legislate or deny them will eventually come down on Jews. Tell me I'm wrong and I'll tell you you're naive. Bottom line - American Muslims deserve to do what they will free of government interference.
(123) Betsy, September 2, 2010 5:01 PM
You want to know what speech?
Bloomberg spoke of this on the Daily Show on Aug. 26. Give us the name of that so-called soldier and his Commanding Officer whom Bloomberg was all in agreement with using that statement from this unknown Soldier. Bloomberg was trying to make a statement of his own beliefs using this unknown so-called soldier to debate that it is not an act against our military efforts to build this Community Center. Did Bloomberg serve in the battle-lines or support our troops during these years, no it's obvious he is careless about their efforts, likewise Obama who stated in his speech last Tuesday, he did not support this war when the decision to go into it. Neither Bloomberg or Obama doesn't care what our military has gone through on behalf of keeping America safe from terrorist attacks, past or possible future ones.
(122) Betsy, September 2, 2010 4:09 PM
Bloomberg who thinks the reason why we sent combat troops to Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan was for the purpose as the likes of building this Islam Community Center. Where does he get off in thinking such an absurd thing like that. Our first mission was to capture Saddam Hussein who was a tyrant leader with his brutal treatment to his country. Furthermore was behind 9/11. Our combat of offense turned into defense to raise their military up to defend their own people from tyrant leaders. So they themselves could put a stop to them, protecting themselves and other countries like the U.S.A. They need their own people to make a difference to improve their country and religion. Bloomberg thinks building this Community Center is why we went to war. No! No! No! That is not why we sent combat troops overseas. It was for us to catch and prosecute those behind bombing NY and those who are planning more attacks. Otherwise what religion they live by in their countries is of no concern to us, until it affects us on our on soil as such: Islam internal motto is "Winning by Building; Building by Winning."
(121) Speedy, August 26, 2010 9:39 PM
Whose walkin the walk or just talkin the talk
I have met religious Muslims, who are religious and their religion is Muslim. I have met backslider Muslims who no longer practice their religion. I have met Arabs that are not religious at all. It's whether they have an evil eye or a good eye is the determining factor if they are evil or good. The good eye Muslims are asking the religious leader of the Mosque to build elsewhere.
(120) Bephah, August 26, 2010 4:22 PM
Build the Mosque
The question is to where to build it. This debate about the Mosque is where should it be built? Should a Muslim YMCA be built somewhere? Of course, why not? Should it be a few blocks away from GZ, no it should not. One good reasons is it is already causing a riot in the land, and it hasn't started construction of it. Isn't this enough proof that it shouldn't be built there? I would think so. If I was for it there, to see what it is creating in the US for even mentioning the plans to have one there is enough to change the location of the Muslim YMCA. A Muslim YMCA to bring the different sects of Muslims living in peace with one another, instead of fighting one another, is what America is all about. Respecting others in their differences, and that does been differences of their religious views. I want the freedom to practice Judaism in the US. I have rights in the US to practice Judaism. Muslims have rights to practice their religion in the US. So to build a Muslim YMCA is a good thing. To insist to build it in a location that is causing a riot, is not a good thing. This isn't the first Muslim building, if it was the plans of the first Muslim building in the US and people were saying no, then they wouldn't have religious freedom in the US. What kind of business will they get if built by GZ? Not much since the picketing won't be quiting. It is already not a wise business deal in that location. This has caused more harm to Muslims by broadcasting the plans of this by GZ. Rauf wasn't thinking of his fellow Muslims with plans by GZ. We also have some born in the USA radicals of our own in the US. Ones that do not like any religion no matter which one. Some have already gotten on the bandwagon against Muslims. If Rauf loved his Muslim brothers and sisters he wouldn't keep insisting it to be built there. He has caused a rumpus against his people. Rauf, if he didn't know before has found out what this is causing, and hasn't changed location.
gail webster, September 4, 2011 3:22 PM
concern
im from Australia, the muslims, here are imposeding their way of life, on to Australia, some have come out and said they will take over Australia, they want sharia law, halal ment. just look what happen in the u.k. they will take over the world, and you will wake up one day, and it will be sharia-law you wait and see, God help us all,
(119) Yosef Moshe, August 26, 2010 5:02 AM
The Constitution right to construct a proposed mosque and community centre....
It seems to me that some are missing the point of this issue in that do the Muslims have the Constitutional right under U.S. law to build a mosque and community centre in a pre-existing building close to GZ. Of course they do. I am an Australian and a first responder here in ozz and have strong feeling of greif for all that have perished in that dreadful event of 9/11, but you cann't condem all muslims for this act of war. I am incline to agree with the comment from (112). Does it not say in the Torah that we are not to hate others. We can have our suspisions and mistrust, but not hate. Why? Let me put it this way, I personly know some very Faithful and godly muslims who belief in the Creator G-D and practice to the best of their ability the 7 Laws of Noah. So do we condem them? I hope not. If they abide by these laws, then they are HaShem's people. It must also be remembered that many of our brothers and sisters were forced under the pain of death to convert to Islam. Do we condem them? Let them build their mosque and their Community centre as per the U.S. Constitution and Law, and if they step over the mark of the law then you have the right to condem them under the full weight of American Law, if it can be proven to be so.
(118) Becky Solomon, August 26, 2010 1:32 AM
It's not about denying their rights
The government should not deny their right to build...I agree. But the American people just want them to be as sensitive to our feelings and respect our stance as they expect us to be sensitive to them. The Muslims who want this mosque should be tolerant and respectful enough to move it down the street! The ball is in THEIR court, not the government's. No one wants the government to say anything about it. Those of us who are opposed to it just want the same respect they want. There is only one reason for them to be so adamant about building it in that particular location. Surely I don't have to spell out what that is.
(117) Anonymous, August 25, 2010 10:36 PM
To Mayor Bloomberg and Beverly K
After WWII, any people or party remotely related to the Nazi party was considered illegal and imprisoned. Naziism has been BANNED from all countries of the earth. The Nazis were evil and cannot be allowed to grow to do again what they did. Moslems are evil people. They should not have any rights in the U.S. or anywhere else. They will never stop terrorizing us until Moshiach comes. I am not fantasizing. Read the story of Rambam (Maimonides) written by Yaakov Dovid Shulman. Rabbi Moshe (as he was called) said, 800 years ago: "Know my brothers, that G-d has led us on a hard path with this nation of Ishmael, which does so much to torment us and create laws to persecute us. There has not stood against Israel a nation more evil, none that has done so much to cast us down, subjugte us, and treat us with hatred. Mayor Bloomberg. IT CANNOT BE MORE OBVIOUS THAT THIS MOSQUE IS A PLAN TO OBLITERATE AMERICA AND THE JEWS WHO LIVE THERE. I suggest you speak to gadol hador (a great tzakid) and ask what he thinks you should do. . You don't want to be responsible for the death of millions of people.
(116) Jasper C., August 25, 2010 10:04 PM
It´s a shame. Muslims will conspire at ground zero
There are people you can trust. Other people you wil not know you can trust or not. There is a third group of "peop´le you are sure you can not trust, never. Be care that the mosque will feed more hostile education and attitudes towards the western free world My opinion: do not build. Do not trust
(115) Dvorah, August 25, 2010 3:11 PM
re: constitution
The purpose of our constitution is to make us free, not to imprison us, to enslave us to following it to the letter even when good sense tells us to make a different decision. I am a leftist liberal who harbors no hatred towards any group; I am not an Islamaphobe. It is my opinion that this community center be built further away from the site of GZ. The al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem is built on top of one of the holiest sites in Judaism, the Temple Mount. The former St. Sophia’s Basilica, once the world’s largest cathedral and orthodox patriarchal basilica, was torn down and replaced with the principal mosque of Istanbul. While the motives of the people behind the building of this center may be pure, this does cause one to raise an eyebrow. I repeat: this building is inappropriate and should not be permitted.
(114) Dawn, August 25, 2010 1:51 AM
Tactics of War...
A teacher once taught me that the most successful tactic of war is to "become one" with an enemy - living with them, working with them, sharing "life" with them, sending your children to the same schools with their children, voting with them, and then when a solid foundation is in place ..."ATTACK"...An implosion is inevitable and victory is 100% guaranteed...No better target than one that is blinded because he refuses to see...
(113) Al T Alana, August 24, 2010 2:25 AM
Wake up & smell the coffee
If it is to be a place for brotherhood, no other religion was invited to build a house of worship in the building. Because it is a Muslim Victory Tower. We are asked to be sensitive to Islamic rights. But why aren't the muslims sensitive to our feelings? Because Islam has become an 'in your face' ideology. We are told that anything they say must be accepted or else we are 'racists & islamophobes. This is exactly what is happening in the middle-east. Arabs have successfully gained control of the media. And if anyone dares to defend Israel, we are demonized. No. Not all Muslims are terrorists. But why won't the 'establishment' Muslim leadership condemn 9/11 without adding that we, Americans, share in the blame. One must ask why the Left runs to defend the rights of Muslims but remain silent when Muslims silence those who dare and criticize Islam. I guess freedom of speech has become a one way street. BTW, look up the Muslim concept "teqiyyah" (deception).
(112) Bithyah, August 23, 2010 3:47 PM
Ms. Kurtin, it's good to fight for religious freedom; we do need to be practical. Many bad people hideout in Religious Org.
Constitutional rights are being brought up. Was the Occults like Waco and Charles Manson and all the others were they included in being protected under our Constitution? They considered themselves a religious group. Going off of religious traditions and practices of christianity and adding their own. We do separate them from the Church. A preacher nearby was arrested for making and selling Meth. Just because he's a Preacher with a church, does he fall under some special exemption under a religious clause in our Constitution that he can make and sell Meth at his church? A church in Calif. was smoking pot in church, saying it was a religious practice of burning incense. Were they protected under the Constitution? Do we look at all churches their members are smoking pot, making Meth and selling it, and insane individuals like Charles Manson? No we don't. Speaking out against their religious rights do we offend other christians? No we don't. Do we even have to worry about being sensitive over what we say about those churches and people? No we don't. WE THE PEOPLE is not about popularity. It is a safe guard if one government official like Bloomberg who lost his head on this one, where one person cannot dictate his opinion only, without taking in consideration for WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES. We are not asking Islam to prove to us that Islam and terrorist groups are not the same. We just aren't asking that question, so they do not have to give an answer by building this community center by ground zero to prove something to us, when we are not asking for that proof. Do we want Charles Manson in our neighborhood to prove to us he really is a follower of JC according to our other peaceful christians that we know? We can't be naive that some bad people are in Islam. That hate the USA.
(111) Beverly Kurtin, August 23, 2010 12:28 AM
How big is GZ?
First, some FACTS: The COMMUNITY CENTER the Muslims want to build are protected by the Constitution of the United States of America. The first amendment reads: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. The Constitution is not a popularity poll; it is the law of the land. They have every right to put the Community Center (like a YMCA) where they want to. It is NOT AT GROUND ZERO AND IS NOT A MOSQUE. I understand fully the emotions involved. Do YOU? Yes, people were murdered, INCLUDING MUSLIMS who lost their loved ones. Churches are right across the street from GZ; the center is blocks away from GZ. How big IS GZ? Maybe build it on the Virgin Islands, would that make you happy? Suppose it was a synagogue that was going to be built there? How about a B'hai temple. Do we not have enough people telling horrendous lies about us? Denying the building of the community center is just convincing our enemies that they are right, we are hypocrites. We claim we honor freedom of religion unless TEN RADICALS flew planes into the towers. Yes, it IS a tragedy, yes I wish they had found a different location. But WE ARE A CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC not a lawless mob. Islam has 1.8 BILLION adherents. Is it the American thing to blame billions of people for the actions of ten beasts? Mohammad was a pedophile and he treated women like excrement. The Koran tells people they have the right to do the same thing as Mohammad. He was not a nice person. But Americans cannot and must not deny Muslims their Constitutional rights. I'm embarrassed to be an American at this point in time.
(110) Anonymous, August 22, 2010 3:09 PM
build a mosque
since when is America an Arab country? Maybe we should not have made the Decleration. And our forefather died to makethis a home for their children,and not an Arab world. And all those lives that were losted does not mean anything. Real sad
(109) Welton, August 22, 2010 5:36 AM
Another Church Denied Ability to "Re-Build"
the site on which the muslims hope to erect a mosque was the site of an Episcopal church which wanted to rebuild/ They were denied permission to rebuild by the NYC government who instead voted to let the muslim majid take over the property held by the Episcopalians prior to 9/11.
(108) DorothyFrancesGoldstein, August 22, 2010 3:58 AM
Is This Mosque A Culture Center or House of Worship?
Is this proposed Mosque a "cultural center?" If so, why is it being defended on religious freedom grounds?
(107) Ofra, August 21, 2010 6:07 AM
You got your heart in the worng place .
Beverly did you forget the mass murder that took place in 9/11 I was not born in America and I don't live in N.Y. but ny heart with the people who lost their loved one and not with a building that can be in another location, you are thinking how bad it's that we are having this anger during their month of Ramadan Did you forget yom kippur war? did they care ?
(106) ofra, August 21, 2010 5:33 AM
Please please do not let them build at GZ.
This Mayor should think about the families that lost a loved one and are still suffering and not about a building and as a jew he should know to preserve the dignity and the memory of the innocent lives of 9/11, and he should use his brain and ask himself why in Gz. why that location?the reason is simple -to draw attention to what the did to us that is the Muslims way and not just today but in past History .
(105) marian, August 20, 2010 11:46 PM
an all faith building should be built there
I think that the building should contain compartments, One for moslems, one for people of the Jewish faith, one for christians both Catholic and protestents,one for Hindus, One for Buddhists and another for other denominations who either practice whatever they wish. It should be an all faith building,commemoratingnall of those who perished in the World Trade disaster. Not only one faith should be givien preference.
(104) Ephtog, August 20, 2010 7:55 PM
Relativity and Being Shallow
In 1650 when Peter Stuyvesant wouldn't allow a Synagogue to be built in New Amsterdam he was later surprised to find that most of the majority shareholders of the Dutch East India Company were Jewish. He had to change his mind because if he didn't relent he would have been Governor for very long. Aside from that, Imam Rauf supports Hamas, is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood (one of the few parties not punished for WWII and the shoah) and wants to build this mosque as a victory mosque (like Al-Aska). The Cordoba Center will be a victory mosque for the Islamic Fascists who will look over the Ground Zero Cemetery with pride and encourage other acts of war.
(103) Bithyah, August 20, 2010 6:45 PM
Donate for it at your own risk
For all of those that are for this community center, put your money where your mouth is. I'm sure they would appreciate you monthly donations, since they are not getting it from the Muslim community. Let's remember after the shooting at Fort Hood, after the guy got arrested and was found he had been donating to a multi million dollar Islam Organization in NY. Further investigation was found that Org. was sending aid to a terrorist group in the middle east. The Islam Org. in NY got shut down. The Fort Hood guy had charges against him for aiding terrorist activity. Did he even know what that org. did with his donated money? Who knows if he did or didn't, it didn't matter he was charged for aiding terrorist.
(102) brian kiel, August 20, 2010 6:09 PM
there is no reason for this mosque/community center not to be wherever they want. we expect freedom of religion and non-interference by government in our religious affairs as jews and no other religion should not be afforded those same rights, no matter how we disagree.
(101) Anonymous, August 20, 2010 4:25 PM
Democracy
I think that in some aspects, we should question the democracies of the world. It was our democracy that gave permission to study how to fly the airplanes to the foundamentalists that crashed them!!!
(100) Evelyn Demanuele, August 20, 2010 3:52 AM
Hogwash!!
Even the muslims themselves, as seen on Fox news from Toronto, think that building a mosque near ground zero is insensitive and shouldn't be built. Besides, the American constitution was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs and anything that doesn't fall in line with these beliefs, shouldn't be allowed!!
(99) Beverly Kurtin, August 19, 2010 9:03 PM
What is WRONG with people?
An Israeli soldier shot an innocent Palestinian. Let's blame ALL Jews around the world for that ONE IDF soldier. If we saw that we'd be boiling. I don't care what the Saudis do or don't do; this is the United States of America and we have a CONSTITUTION, the Saudis are a Kingdom, not a Democratic Republic which we are. If you're waiting for quid pro quo, you'll die before that happens. As a Jew, I am horrified by what some folks are saying. Even some of the people who lost their loved ones on 9/11 are not bothered by a COMMUNITY CENTER being built 2 to 4 blocks AWAY FROM "GROUND ZERO." I am an American who has sworn to protect and defend the Constitution. The first amendment guarantees our Muslim brothers the right to build on a site that was chosen because they purchased it at a bargain price. Are the Virgin Islands far enough away from GZ to please you? My Muslim friends are wavering between anger and fear. All of this is going on during their holy month of Ramadan. How would we like it if a non-issue cropped up against us during Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur? I don't think we'd be too happy about that. Are we so stupid that we are willing to blame all 1.8 billion followers of Islam for 9/11? A Jew shot up a mosque several years ago. Did the 1.8 billion Muslims blame all of us? I understand that this is an emotional issue for a large number of people, but this is a time to put aside your raw emotions and permit your logical mind to take over. Again, IT IS NOT A MOSQUE AND IT IS NOT AT GROUND ZERO.
(98) Elana, August 19, 2010 7:28 PM
I agree mosque should not be built, but
but, if you put all of your emotions aside, everything, 9/11 included, you will see that there is no way to say no this building; just based on the law. 1. They own the building and so have a right to use it in any which way they want until proven guilty; meaning until proven that they are using it for evil intentions. This is how the law in america works. 2. it is not quite on the site of ground zero; so why can't they use it. Same in my divorce...law doesn't care that my spouse gambled and will not give child support; but I still have to give 1/2 of my house to him and when he doesn't give me support; then I can come back to court. But then it is too late, the house is gone and so is the money. There is no talking sense in american law. Just like in this case,,,well if they use the mosque for suicide bombing, then we will remove it...but by then how many innocent lives will be gone perhaps? Take your gripes and change the american laws.
(97) Karen Roberts, August 19, 2010 2:42 PM
Right and Wrong
I have the right to do many things...I do not do them because they would be wrong based on my core beliefs and value system...and good taste.
(96) , August 19, 2010 11:29 AM
the attack on the twin towers were engineered by the Islamic foundermentalist ,what an insult to the dignity of the American?
(95) Ronald Stirber, August 18, 2010 10:56 PM
Connect The Dots To Reveal A Logical Choice!
After hearing and reading many explanations as to why or why not a mosque should be built in the close vicinity of WTC grounds, it is apparent that all might benefit from a more thorough investigation of many seemingly unrelated issues, that when dissected concurrently, will deliver an outcome of...don't build the Mosque! 1. What kind of environment exists in many of the world's Mosques? Anti- American, Anti- Jewish, Anti- Anything not Muslim. 2. What kind of things are Mosques used for that are not traditional uses of Houses Of Worship? In some cases, weapon to fight local wars including bombs, In other cases, safeholds for selected terrorists. 3. In which Arab Muslim country is there an acceptance of the building of a non-Muslim house of worship? Answer: essentially, none. 4. What religion teaches, through their bible, to be deceptive in all cases, in order to gain any stated goal as per their supreme leader? Answer: Muslim 5. What benefit will there be in a community where over half the residents will feel resentment and even hatred towards a newly built Mosque? On the whole, the benefit will be hightly muted due to the sensivivity issue. 6. What other group would pursue such a controversial project in light of the estreme trauma that it creates? Would Christian or Jewish groups continue to push in light of the controversial nature? Not likely!!!
(94) Murray Levine, August 18, 2010 6:17 PM
While distasteful, Bloomberg is right
The US is a country based on laws and the law must be followed. That being said, I hope that no construction firm or workers will be found to build the the building or and no firms to supply the material. Let them build a mile away.
(93) Bephah, August 18, 2010 5:03 PM
Radical Islam
Radical Islams are those who are trying to convert others to Islam. Radical Islams would try to take away our religion. Radical Islams are those that are in the U.S. to marry American women. Radical Islams are those who are here to harm Americans in some way. Radical Islams are those who LOL when we mention Islam teaches from a young age to die for their religion. (mostly using suicide bombers) Radical Islams would build a Islamic Mosque close by a site they had bombed and killed. If there is such a thing as peaceful Muslims, they wouldn't build a Mosque community center by a place of destruction, terrorist from their own people that killed thousands of lives. By the very act declared war with the U.S. Only Radical Islams would do such a thing. NY radio should play the song "Have we forgotten" every hour. Movie theaters should play the movie "The World Trade Center" for Radical Islams wants us to forget what they have done!!
(92) Sharon Kelso, August 18, 2010 4:32 PM
No!! never
Shalom, In my mind it would be a slap in the faces of the people who died
(91) LauraHill, August 18, 2010 11:55 AM
Build the Mosque
The author mentions other times NY denied the building of a synagogue and a quaker place of worship. That was due to simple prejudice against certain religions. However, the Jews and Quakers were not from a group that has as its center the destruction of Israel and the U.S. Further, there are two other mosques in the area, so why hurt the families and friends who lost their loved ones in a murderous attack against American citizens and their children? The mosque will be a constant reminder. They have the right to build it, but do they have to exercise that right? No. We are inviting the potential enemy right into our home and bending over backwards to make the comfortable. It is foolish.
(90) Josh, August 18, 2010 10:18 AM
Freedom not Fanatacism
Thats all very nice but that does'nt mean we freely permit and legitimise those whow oppose freedom with murderous acts and violent intentions to spreed hatred, so called in the name of g-d? All in the name of 'freedom' of course. Seems that word too has become little more than a political slogan. politicians would'nt be so bad if they only stayed in hollywood.Their certainly great actors!
(89) Phil, August 18, 2010 9:59 AM
Bloomberg's ulterior motive?
Just wondering if Bloomberg has any particular interest in this mosque: "Spurred by a recent boom in sales in the region, Bloomberg is expanding its Dubai office into a regional hub, a move that will as much as quadruple its local staff over the next year."... "The company has also been developing an Islamic finance portal, which ... would be helped by having more people on the ground building relationships. Particularly since the meltdown of the western capitalist system, there has been an increasingly large focus on the virtues of Islamic finance,” Mr. Linnington said. “Today, there is no one single provider of information that caters to the Islamic finance market. So by Bloomberg being here, we are in the process of building out an Islamic finance product. We are very confident that we can build a product that meets the needs of the market right now.” That's sharia finance, no? The excerpt above comes from http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081029/BUSINESS/302158245/1005
(88) Anonymous, August 18, 2010 9:45 AM
Its not about the right to build a mosque
After reading this article, it seems that we are debating the right of Muslims to build mosques in the USA. This article is misleading and is maliciously shifting the debate. Lets make it clear: There are hundreds of mosques in the USA. The debate here is NOT whether Muslims can build their mosque, it is whether they should be allowed to build their Mosque on ground zero to proclaim Islamic dominance in the USA. Don't forget the Muslims want to build their mosque on ground zero for the same reason they built their mosque on the Temple mount. Juliani refused a Saudi dollar handout right after 9/11, and his message was clear ..... let the Saudis clean their house and bring religious freedom and democracy to their country before financing multimillion dollar Mosques on ground zero
(87) PK, August 18, 2010 9:39 AM
v.clever of Bloomberg
the un-said question is... not whether a mosque can / should be built at ground zero... it asks us whether we think a mosque should be built anywhere at all...
(86) Vicki Lopow, August 18, 2010 7:10 AM
Watch this
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/pat-condell-on-ground-zero-mosque-is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised.html
(85) Chaya, August 18, 2010 6:16 AM
Mosque @ Ground Zero
No, no mosque. No synagogue. No church. No religious symbols at all.
(84) Anonymous, August 18, 2010 5:02 AM
Islam an insurrection-not a religion.
Islam which once had developed into a respectable religion has been captured by fundamentalist fanatics who wish to and have largely succeeded in returning its mainstream to behavior common in the Dark Ages. And those fanatics are not being resisted and countered by “liberal” elements within their faith. On the contrary, I am convinced that the preponderance of Muslim moderates pay lip service to condemning the fundamentalist/terrorists while finding excuses and “understanding” for the ”causes” which have led, nay, “forced”, them to such behavior. These “good” elements MUST forcefully, frequently, publicly, consistently, and loudly condemn the Jihadists, terrorists and fundamentalists until they have recaptured Islam. Until they so endeavor and succeed I contend that Islam is not a legitimate religion but an invasive military/quasi-military enemy force not entitled to our Constitutional protections.
(83) Anonymous, August 18, 2010 3:30 AM
What an arab TV director has to say about this
Please follow this link http://newsbusters.org/blogs/alana-goodman/2010/08/17/arab-tv-director-ground-zero-mosque-would-be-monument-terrorists
(82) David S. Levine, August 18, 2010 3:09 AM
Bloomberg--A Low Life
today bloomberg endorsed the candidacy of Joe Sestack, one of the Gaza 54 Congressmen who urged Obama to curtail aid to Israel for defending itself against rockets from Gaza. THIS is the kind of person Bloomberg is and all decent people should feel nothing but disdain for him. This endorsement is entirely consistent with his support of the Ground Zero Victory Mosque.
(81) DNA HOROVITZ, August 18, 2010 2:06 AM
ASHAME
ASHAMED TO ALL OF YOU SUPORT THE TERORISTS TO BUILT A MOSQUE ON THE SOIL THE INOCENT PEOPLE LOST THEIR LIVE..AMERICANS WAKE UP DO NOT LET THESE TERORISTS TO BUILT A NEST OF TEROR IN THE HEART OF THE FREE COUNTRY.
(80) Anonymous, August 18, 2010 1:01 AM
Give him the benefit of the doubt
To give him the benefit of the doubt, I think the man was afraid for his life or the lives of his loved ones if he went against the will the the radical Muslims. Haven't they put a fatwah on everyone who goes against their point of view?
(79) Sue Rocker, August 18, 2010 12:53 AM
how insensitive can u be mr bloomberg.
Build a mosque where ever u please but definetly not in the area where 3,000 people died caused by islamo facists. Can you imagine how these families and friends would feel if this did happen?And who is this so called moderate Muslim who will not say whether he supports Hamas or not.I'd like to know more about his backround.
(78) Spencer, August 18, 2010 12:51 AM
award the victors?
It is common knowledge that muslims build mosques at the site of conquest. The Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa are the most obvious, but what about the mosque in Cordoba *the name that will be given this new 'community center'. What about the conquest of, and the mosque in Cordoba. They may have 'a right to build the mosque' but that doesn't mean it is right. What about the sensitivity of the builders of the mosque? How do the y expect to build bridges, when 70% of the US population oppose it?
(77) hotiana, August 18, 2010 12:43 AM
how long we are going to fight on the issue can we be thoughtful for our coming generations or the poor of our world religion is not the major issue but poverty injustice and increasing rapid population are the core issues of today's world. why not to spend money on to upgrade and build a better world
(76) alp, August 18, 2010 12:28 AM
Disagree:because you assumptions are so wrong
You assume and do not even question why this mosque is being built here Not in the spirit of peace and tolerance....it is a shrine to the victory of September 11th...when they danced in the street as 3000 infidels were murdered and the great Satan was successfully attacked. Why do people continue to be so blind? Is it that they will not tolerate that there is deep cultural difference that can not accommodate our values our freedoms or even our upfront ways? It is absurd to them that some people believe and think so very differently then they do. The Muslims who insist on building their mosque here do not think in terms of tolerance and acceptance but will say anything to reach their goal of conversion or domination of all others. Your article is naive and not attuned to the present facts on the ground. I pray that others do not fall for the same trap but really question and open their eyes to what is truly going on here
(75) David S. Levine, August 18, 2010 12:12 AM
Ironies Abound
Ironies abound in this controversy. Comment #29 mentions the failure to allow the rebuilding of St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church. That church was build by Greek Orthodox immigrants from Syria. One of the original members of that Church was the grandfather of Lisa Halaby, now known as Queen Noor of Jordan (and a convert to Islam, the bunch her grandfather was trying to get away from). Anyone who watched the PBS program of Obama's buddy Henry Louis Gates would know this but our crack liberal media has not picked this one up. I wonder why.
(74) David S. Levine, August 18, 2010 12:04 AM
The Peridious Jewish Organizations
One of the most disgusting aspects about the mosque controversy was the presence of people representing Jewish organizations behind Mayor Bloomberg at his conference justifying the mosque. These organizations were nowhere to be found when mayors such as John V. Lindsay, may his name be followed by a cruse for 1000 generations, was destroying the Jewish communities of the City with his policies. These policies literally drove Jews out of the City and out of its student population in its public schools but these organizations has nary a word to say about them. Yet there they are giving the enemies of the Jewish people a heads up to build a Victory Mosque. Shame on them!
(73) Anonymous, August 18, 2010 12:00 AM
i'm in shock!
How can we American's being so blind? Praising Terror!
(72) David S. Levine, August 17, 2010 11:59 PM
Disgusting
It is totally disgusting that the Mayor of the City of New York is doing this. I remember when Mayor Robert F. Wagner would not give the King of Saudi Arabia a ticker tape parade up Broadway and now the City's political system has degenerated to this. Many will say that the Mayor is a Republican, ha ha ha. Well, the Republican Party of New York City is truly bankrupt when someone such as Michael Bloomberg can literally buy its nomination. Michael Bloomberg is first of all a LIBERAL. Today's liberalism main tenet is the embracing of all forces that wish to destroy civilization. After 1968 the liberals and their Party wished to stop fighting the Cold War and embraced the Viet Cong. Today the liberals have embraced radical Islam. It matters not to them that the site of this abomination was a point of impact of Mohammed Atta's plane, part of which fell onto the roof of the buildings involved. This will be a victory mosque for radical Islam and Michael Bloomberg, degenerate liberal that he is, knows it and simply doesn't care. Perhaps his communications company will be allowed into Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States after he leaves office (which will be at the end of this term, be very certain). At any rate he has shown himself to be an arrogant SOB who doesn't deserve to hold public office and had he done this prior to election day, 2009, wouldn't be. Shame on him!
(71) betty jones, August 17, 2010 11:25 PM
where is common decencyy gone"?. shame on you
(70) Samuel Annis, August 17, 2010 11:15 PM
A Mosque next to the 9/11 catastrophe?
Mr. Mayor; Open your eyes and see the grief of so many relatives who lost their loved ones. Have you no common sense? Have you no sense of decency? Are you not aware that you are flaunting your will against the will of the majority of the American people? Building this edifice will be like turning the knife in the hearts of so many Americans who have suffered through these many years with memories of the madmen who caused this catastrophe. Anyone with a basic sense of good taste should realize that this will offend millions of Americans. There are a multitude of sites where this Mosque could have been built. Why do you suppose the Muslims chose this particular site? Because of people like you who have no regard for the feelings of the relatives of those who died and of the midstream American public. You should be ashamed of yourself for using your path of reasoning in allowing this Mosque to be built.
(69) Beverly Kurtin, August 17, 2010 11:00 PM
I'm OUTRAGED!
I'm shocked by some of the posts here. First, they are building a COMMUNITY CENTER, not a Mosque. Second, it is NOT at "Ground Zero." Both the mayor and president are simply upholding the Constitution. Yes, there will be some prayer rooms, but it will have basketball courts, a cooking school and many other amenities that has nothing to do with religion or terrorism. I'm embarrassed to be an American at this time. Have we forgotten when we were fodder for the ovens of the Holocaust? Hundreds of Muslims were killed in the Twin Towers as were Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc. Does it make sense to blame each and every Muslim for the Saudis and Palestinians who flew into the towers? NO. America has had Muslims in it since before the Revolution. Muslim countries helped us financially while Europeans were hesitant to do so. Again: It is NOT on Ground Zero and is NOT a Mosque. I'm aghast at the number of us who are so intolerant. I'm disappointed.
(68) Larry, August 17, 2010 9:37 PM
Synagogue or church in Saudi Arabia?
When Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia allow synagogues and churches to be built in their countries, we can talk about the mosque at Ground Zero. Wake up America, and that includes your my dear mayor. Or should we all learn to speak Arabic?
(67) Ken Gox, August 17, 2010 9:20 PM
Bloomberg Is A Naive Idiot
Bloomberg is either a bleeding idiot or, at best, dangerously naive. Its standard moral logic that you don't assert a brazen expression of your identity at a place where your kindred committed crimes of which you should be ashamed, i.e., no German cultural center at Auschwitz, no Shinto Shrine at Pearl Harbor, no Russian memorial at Katyn, no Custer statue at Washita, no Serb Orthodox church at Srebrenica - and that's why there should be no mosque at Ground Zero!
(66) Anonymous, August 17, 2010 9:07 PM
Opposition to Mayor Bloomberg
With all due respect to your office and your opinion, the point of this being built at the location where it is to be built is to show victory against the infidel Americans. This is not about religious freedom. The Imam speaks out of both sides of his mouth - one thing to Americans and another to his breathren in Arabic. You are naive and well intentioned, but totally wrong. To build it here would be a slap in the face to all of America, especially those who lost loved ones on 9-11. It would be a victory for the terrorists and their ilk. Please do not allow this.
(65) Anonymous, August 17, 2010 8:50 PM
This mosque is not a question of freedom of Islamic worship
Mayor Bloomberg is completely unaware of history and the Koran. Since its beginning (624 AD), Muhammad and his followers have destroyed, enslaved or slaughtered, and built over previous houses of worship to destroy the history of the previous culture. Al Aqsa replaced Solomon's Temple; the old Cordoba mosque replaced a Visigoth church; the Hagia Sophia replaced a Christian Basilica, and the many mosques throughout the Middle East have replaced numerous Buddhist temples. We allow Muslims to build and pray; there are more than 100 mosques in New York. This mosque would be their symbol of conquest, of supremacy, of triumphalism. They wish to bring back their Golden Era when they ruled over Christians and Jews from the Cordoba mosque. Rauf, the Imam is a Wahhabist, one who would implement Shari'a law over the Constitution, who said he would kill apostates, and who will bring down our democracy. Bloomberg basis his passion on an era when synagogues were not allowed; this does not equate to the current situation. We have accommodated Islam; it is now time for them to accommodate the wishes of our citizens. We want no mosque near Ground Zero, where Islamic terrorists destroyed and killed, once again. If we continually tolerate the intolerance of Islam, our culture will be destroyed.
(64) Anonymous, August 17, 2010 8:48 PM
Mosque yes, just not at Ground Zero
Grace Fishenfeld & others like her, in the vein of "tolerance" and religious freedom, are naively allowing an Islamic Victory Structure to be build at the site where they had a military victory, and 3000 innocent souls, most American, were lost. They COULD easily build it elsewhere in NY, if not for their purpose, as Islam dictates, for them to build this victory trophy!! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!
(63) alvin deskin, August 17, 2010 8:37 PM
mosque
It is one thing to accept people who want to be AMERICANS. I is quite another to encourage people who seek to distroy AMERICA.I don't understand why people can't see the difference. This is deffinatly a part of a plan to dominate the world if left unattended. I am not paronoide! Just old enough to see this happening
(62) sarah rivkin, August 17, 2010 8:35 PM
not about rights
To say there is a right to build a house of worship somewhere is a mute point. Nobody's denying Muslims' right to build Mosques. There are already, I believe 150 (?) Mosques in NY and no shortage in Manhattan. The point is, the lack of sensitivity to build one in this location. To build one here, so close to Ground Zero, and where there is not even a Muslim population in this strictly business district, is a clear, and has been acknowledged as such, statement of triumph for Islam and the success of the 911 attack, and a kick in our face. Many moderate intelligent and sensitive Muslems agree with this.
(61) chaim, August 17, 2010 8:24 PM
I'm all for freedom of religion also. But what if the religion you practice preaches that you must take over the world in the form of jihad and terrorism? What about the fact that the people who spearheaded the cordoba initiative were working together with the actual 9-11 plane hijackers? The left has zero intuition; they just let the arabs go ahead on the basis of the first amendment while ignoring this.
(60) Van Hove Francois, August 17, 2010 8:04 PM
islam is not a religion of freedom. And should be totaly forbidden in the free world. In the 1950is komunism was persecuted in the US. Why not this mudering religion.
(59) Al, August 17, 2010 8:03 PM
Political Correctness
Oh,the curse of political correctness!!!! Mayor Bloomberg knows in his heart that it is a travesty, a total disrespect to the living and the dead to erect a mosque near Ground Zero. This henious act was an alright war against freedom. It was a war against life!
(58) eileen dewalt@yahoo.com, August 17, 2010 7:20 PM
on my
Well does not anyone remember the video clips on the news of muslims all over the world celebrating the attacks on 911 . Also just look at what has happen on the Temple mount the Jew can not even build a elevator. ..... Well as I alway say .Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem set your cell phone alarms for 12 noon when it sound whisper a prayer for the Peace of Jerusalem .
(57) Sydelle Sydney, August 17, 2010 7:10 PM
Rights are lost when wanting to institute sharia law!!
What Islam couldn't conquer with the sword they now declare they will get thru democratic law and then institute sharia law. They wipe out Judaism and Christianity by building mossques over our sites...Example Temple Mount, Rachels' Tomb!!! Believe what the are saying.
(56) aa, August 17, 2010 7:04 PM
self preservation
Were the attackers of 9/11 (and other perpetrators of terrorist acts) acting in ways consistent with Islam? That is an important question. If they were and Islam does teach its followers that such acts are highly rewarded by Allah, then we are endangering our own lives by extending religious freedom to such followers. We can only expect that some of Allah's followers will commit more of such acts!
(55) AzizA, August 17, 2010 6:40 PM
BUILDING A MOSQUE
Ask the Arabs in Saudi arabia if the allow a church or synagogue to be built any place in their country or other arab countries.
(54) Anonymous, August 17, 2010 6:16 PM
Muslems should be free to build where ever they wish, but Jews can't build in Jerusalem. Are we ready to give them the world ???
(53) catherine, August 17, 2010 6:16 PM
Shame On You
I am embarrassed at the decision Bloomberg made to allow Ground Zero to be deficated upon. This isnt a matter of religious freedom. There IS a mosque 2 blocks from the NEW proposed site. This is a symbol of Victory to Islam and to Muslims.They are driven and motivated by conquests. Bloomberg needs to remember WHO he works for - I gaurantee you that New Yorkers will not vote for him in ANY upcoming election. He bought his election last time - and I suppose "Never Again" applies to him as well. What a disgrace to NY and a disgrace to America
(52) Anonymous, August 17, 2010 6:09 PM
There are Exceptions
It's not about religious freedom, there are over one hundred mosques in New York, it's about the Muslim religion's particular kind of anti-Americanism and about them trying to take over the world. They just want to rub in our faces that they took down the towers and this is their way of doing that. I say let them build it so a few American fanatics can blow it up and send it crashing to the ground like out towers! Screw Islam and Ishmael and Allah and Muhamad! Up with Israel!
(51) Anonymous, August 17, 2010 6:07 PM
Let them build the mosque at ground zero? Do you like the mosque on the Temple Mount? Well, we don't want it at ground zero either, build it else where, better yet, build it in Iran.
(50) Glad Tidings, August 17, 2010 6:05 PM
Islam is an IDEOLOGY!
Islam is an Ideology that encompasses EVERY aspect of life - not just "A RELIGION!" That is why islamic countries use the koran as their constitution, and that is why EVERY MOSQUE is a local administrator of their "government". Bloomberg needs to get his head out it's dark spot and get informed!
(49) Anonymous, August 17, 2010 5:53 PM
Another Location Accomplishes the Same Goal
Why can't they be told to build it in another location? As other people mentioned, this is not the first time a religious group looked to build a religious hall and were denied. To have this mosque build elsewhere would be considerate to 9/11/01 victim's family members as well as being considerate to the moderate (we hope only them) Muslims.
(48) Infidel_Pete, August 17, 2010 5:37 PM
Peace in Our Time, eh, Bloomberg?
Bloomberg's legal argument is sound but his remarks that Jews and Catholics were denied the right to build synagogues or churches is a warped and repugnant analogy. Immigrants to America always had one thing in mind: overcome prejudice and build a new life for themselves and, in doing so, they made America a great nation. Later on, Hindus, Buddhists and myriads of other people professing esoteric beliefs settled in America. All of them believed in the American dream, contributed to it and more than tolerated people of other faiths. Can anyone with half a brain say Muslims have the same mindset? Interfaith Dialogue? What's that? How can a philosophy dedicated to destroying non-believers possibly undertake an interfaith dialogue? Monologue about how peaceful they really are, yes. Dialogue about equality of religious belief? Come on! I don't believe Bloomberg is not intelligent enough to be aware of their true agenda: turn America into a Caliphate through a combination of force, intimidation and legal manoeuvering. Religious freedom is NOT their ultimate goal and Bloomberg knows it but is cynically ignoring this important fact. Daniel Pearl was just as liberal (maybe more so) than Bloomberg when he sought to dialogue with this religion of peace. That didn't alter the fact that, to the people who murdered him, he was Jewish. Bloomberg: No amount of appeasement will soothe the savage breasts of those with a systemic hatred of infidels--especially Jews. Get that into your thick-headed liberal head!
(47) Anonymous, August 17, 2010 5:24 PM
Bloomberg as Mayor D'himmi
Tu., 08/17/10 common era Mayor Bloombereg is dangeorusly naive. He ought to read Robert Spenser's book THE COMPETE INFIDEL'S GUIDE TO THE KORAN. He o ught to be investigating, with the State Department's assistance, the source of the funds sought to be donated to build the mosque. According to Spenser, who is fluent in both Arabic and English, the Koran permits Moslems to lie to non-Moslems for the purpose of achieving some advantage. I read that there are now about 1.5 billion Moslems in the world. Even if only 0.05% of them are jihadis, that's still 7.5 million fanatics who have unlimited funding from the Saudis. Wake up, Mayor Bloomberg! The Moslem Brotherhood collaborated with Nazi Germany. It's goal is ISLAM UBER ALLES!
(46) Elyah Leboff, August 17, 2010 5:13 PM
RADICALISLAM
Are you not familiar with the RadicalIslam movement? I think it is total ignorance to view the proposed building of a mosque as an innocent "house of worship" Rather, it is a "House of WARship." Would you be so tolerant for a proposed neonazi community center? I think not.
(45) Grace Fishenfeld, August 17, 2010 4:53 PM
Uphold OUR Laws and Values
We, Americans, live by our laws. Freedom of religion is a most important Constitutional right. Bloomberg is correct in holding to the principals of religious freedom for all Americans. That is what our country is based on. Bitterness about 9/11 cannot be focused on moderate Muslims. We cannot form our behavior based on the structure of the Koran and use it as examples for denying Muslims of this country the right to build a house of worship on private property. As far as who is deemed for salvation, didn't the Catholic church, until now also say that only believers in Jesus Christ would be saved? That has changed and so has much of biblical violence changed. We must be guided by good actions and NOT by FEAR. We hold fast to OUR legal structures, because that is the core of American tradition and values.
(44) Jerome C. Liner, August 17, 2010 4:40 PM
Build a mosque , but not at this locatioin.
As many rabbis and ministers could tell you, they were denied permission to build their synagogues and churches at their first preferred locations. Communities for various reasons deny building permits for houses of worship at certain locations. As a result, these synagogues and churches are built elsewhere. There are plenty of reasons for this mosque to be built elsewhere. The fact that they were offered another location for their mosque, a half mile away, and rejected it, leaves one with questions on their motivation.
(43) Inna, August 17, 2010 4:35 PM
Betrayed
Mayor Bloomberg, you betrayed everybody: those who perished in the attack and those who survived. It is a common sence not to build a mosque on the sacred ground!
(42) Bernie Rosenberg, August 17, 2010 4:33 PM
i'll be brief. all the PC people are wringing their hands over this mosque problems. i have a problem with this. how soon do you think a muslim nation would grant permission to erect a church,synagogue,or any other place of worship? don't hold your breath. with muslims it's purely a one way street.
(41) Anonymous, August 17, 2010 4:31 PM
I couldn't expound on it better than the #2 comment by David Foremen.
(40) , August 17, 2010 4:25 PM
Hey Mayor Blkoomberg, You are an insensitive lout, and illogical as well. The issue is not if they have a right. It's a matter of the whole attitude of their project. It is obvious that their intentions are not to foster peace and the remembrance of this dastardly and despicable act of religious expression- Jihad, by their bretheren, but at least until now nor in their future have they ever disparaged their fellow Islamists for their heinous crime or violent eruptions around the world. You and your ilk are cowards and hypocrits as well, as your ignorance of human decency to the victims shows!
(39) Morton Friedman, August 17, 2010 4:13 PM
Community? What community. That area of Manhattan is far from being a residential community, and it is doubtful if there is a moslem living anywhere in the vicinity. Will Blomberg kowtow, in addition, to the noise pollution of 5 times a day call to worship, will the PA system reeive dispensation in the name of religious tolerance. When the Dutch ruled, hundreds of years ago, it was a residential area. That has long since disappeared.
(38) Rabbi Jeffery Feinstein, August 17, 2010 4:08 PM
Is Islam really a religion?
The 1st Amendment to our Constitution that the government will not interfer in nor establish any sponsorship for any religion. So saying we must first establish a definition for a religion. We may define religion as a belief system that owes allegiance to a supreme diety and is a moral guidline to our daily lives. Because Sharia is an integral part of Islam it clearly falls outside of this definition. The guiding principles of sharia demand the overthrow of our current legal system (and therefore our government). This not only places Islam outside of 1st Amendment protections it also places it in the category of sedition and treason (as it calls for the violent overthrow of our government). The second problem with Islam is that it clearly states that the land upon which a mosque sits is no longer a part of the state. Again, this is clearly outside of constitutional protection. As a Jew, I am very aware of religious intolerance. It has been practiced against Jews for centuries. But when a group demands that I believe as they do or be killed, the line has been crossed and action must be taken. Even though we have been persecuted for centuries, never once has a Jew placed a bomb in a bus or cafe targeting civilians. Islam glorifies those that do this. Wake up America and the rest of the world! They are laughing at us and we are allowing our own laws to be used against us.
(37) Margaret, August 17, 2010 3:48 PM
I quite agree with you, David Foreman, Mohammed uilt on your holiest site and also other Jewish holy sites in Israel - he was truly evil and his followers inherited his evil examples because he was able to get away with doing what he wanted to do. PLEASE don't let any other faiths fall victim to their intentions to dominate the world.
(36) Raisa, August 17, 2010 3:42 PM
Wake up world!
As the previous responder, David Foreman says:wake up, world...before it's too late! Mayor Bloomberg lost the ground under his feet and is completely, terribly and dangerously wrong! Of course, Islam is related to the 9-11 attact, of course, the people who did it, just take their religion seriously. Read the Koran and you can see it! Of course, the mosque is not a place of worship, but the place of hatred. And who do you think they hate? They hate us the very people on whose soil they build their houses or hatred and terrorism. Bloomberg is leading the New Yorkers to the same deadly mistake European governments has made. The bones of innocent victims of the attact cry out for justice and this is our goal to defend their memory!
(35) Sid, August 17, 2010 3:41 PM
Islam is not a religion
Islam is a nation. Wherever Muslims live the islamic nation exists. Islamic constitution is the Koran. Islamic law suppossedly comes from Allah, can't be changed, can't be questioned and can't be amended. I wrote this several years ago about the dangers of Islam. How egotistical is the Muslim who believes that Allah favors him. Over the Christians and Jews, The Buddhists and Hindus How evil is the Muslim who believes that Allah desires jihads, Wars with body count scores. And holocausts where millions are lost. How egotistical is the Radical Muslim who believes that Allah favors him Over the Pagans and Polytheists, The Agnostics and Atheists. How wise would be the Muslim who’d believe that Allah’s only command. Is to love one’s neighbor and there should be peace in every land.
(34) Steve Edelman, August 17, 2010 3:32 PM
Bloomberg made some errors
First, he was mistaken about New Amsterdam being a bastion of religious freedom. Peter Stuyvestant hated Jews. His masters in old Holland had to rein him in. He also hated Christians who did not see things the way his particular faith did. Ultimately, any freedom can be limited by interpretation of the Supreme Court. For example, Justice Oliver Wendel Holmes clearly stated that yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre when there is no fire is not a form of protected speech. IMHO, if it can be shown that building the mosque will be harmful then it would not be protected by the constitution.
(33) anonymous14, August 17, 2010 3:31 PM
Who are you kidding?
"Of course, it is fair to ask the organizers of the mosque to show some special sensitivity to the situation, and in fact their plan envisions reaching beyond their walls and building an interfaith community." Oh yeah--I'm sure that will happen; you hold on to that dream--just like the Vatican did. If you remember, 1995 the Vatican supported the Saudi's opening of a huge new mosque in downtown Rome, with assurances that Christians would be less restricted in practicing their religion in Saudi Arabia. We’re all still waiting on that. But I’m sure this moderate imam Faisal is really sincere when he states his peaceful intentions. If you believe that the placement of this mosque-cum-community center is anything but a slap in the face to every American and civilized person, you are beyond hope. History is filled with one culture taking over and dominating another, until the dominated culture capitulates. Think it can’t happen in the US? Ask an American Indian if he/she knows what I mean. What you have with Islam is a totalitarian political system masquerading as a religion and demanding the freedoms accorded to religion by the US Constitution, while never tolerating other religions in muslim countires. So I guess that there’s just nothing else to do but permit the structure to be built. I believe it was W. C. Fields who said, “There’s a sucker born every minute.”
(32) Howie Subnick, August 17, 2010 3:25 PM
A Mayor With Eyes That Cannot See
BLOOMBERG YOU ARE A FOOL! DO YOU THINK THAT 9-11 WAS A CELEBRATION? IT WAS WAR! CALL YOUR PROCTOLOGIST! YOU NEED YOUR HEAD EXAMINED!
(31) Carol Sulak, August 17, 2010 3:18 PM
Why must we all suffer for the actions of a few?
Leaving religion and politics aside, common decency is not to build any building that stirs up emotions in the majority of the people. I believe this mosque will never be built unless the people import workers from other countries., to be this mosque. I don't think any New Yorker from any union will work on this job, cause construction workers are loyal true Americans. Besides I don't believe God will let this happen cause it will hurt too many people. Let's put our faith in God and let Him change the hearts and minds of these stubborn people.
(30) Anonymous, August 17, 2010 3:16 PM
This is the second attempt to erect an El Cordoba Mosque, Spain said NO
What mayor Boomberg denies is the fact that the name and the location of thie El Cordoba mosque is another attempt to build a mosque of the same name as the one in America, because of their failed attempt to convert a historical church called the El Cordoba in Spain. This created a great controvery and despite the fact that the Muslims have increased in numbers exponentially in Spain , the Christians protested vehemently because they opposed the symbolism that was intended. Mayor Bloomberg's attempt to equalize the playing field by comparing the deaths of the radicals to those who were innocent, by ignoring the sensibilities of those New Yorkers who died because of the Sharia mandate is unconsionable and ignorant. I will post that link below. In addition the organizer of this project, has terrorist links. This video of him is retrievable on You Tube. What is it that Blooberg fails to grasp.? Here find the link to the El Cordoba Church in Spain where the original protest took place : http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2010/08/11/ac.terror.baby.cnn?hpt=C2
(29) Burton Paikoff, August 17, 2010 3:15 PM
Obligation
Why are they so determined to put a Mosque so close to Ground Zero. There are Mosques and Imams converting young Americans and training as well as supporting them to BLOW UP American Airplanes. Remember FREEDOM OF RELIGION requires some OBLIGATION for them to Help Root out these Terrorist Organization from AMERICAN SOIL before demanding their Freedom of Religion Rights. Then we may be able to Trust Them.
(28) Anonymous, August 17, 2010 3:14 PM
Bloomberg is a hypocrite
St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, which once sat right across the street from the World Trade Center, was crushed under the weight of the collapse of Tower Two on September 11, 2001. St. Nicholas was the only church to be lost in the attacks, and nine years later, while City of New York officials are busy removing every impediment to the building of the Cordoba mosque two blocks from the site, St. Nicholas’ future remains unclear. http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=38462
(27) stan corbett, August 17, 2010 3:08 PM
Religions are different
Not all religions are worthy of the same respect. Some are peaceful and good. Others are violent and have a history of persecuting others. Look at the recent and past history of Islam in order to decide. As well, do some reading of the Koran to help you make the decision. Is the religion of Islam one of peace or not?
(26) Verne, August 17, 2010 3:04 PM
Nonsense
Keep in mind that Islam has for 1400 years practiced religious intolerance and in most countries where it is dominant denied others the right to worship as they wished. No one is denying the right of this medevil religion that worships a mass murder, pedophile and thief but the location is clearly intended to send a message to Americans that Islam will dominate.
(25) Leah, August 17, 2010 2:59 PM
How about a German war-memorial outside the White House?
Or a Japanese war-memorial on Pearl Harbor, or... The point is not whether they*can* build the mosque there, but whether they should. If a group of Jewish terrorists had killed 3,000 people in a single spot, would we be agitating to build a Great Synagogue next door? Putting a mosque *davka* there is a way of marking territory conquered. The greater NY area is big enough for them to build almost anywhere else.
(24) Anonymous, August 17, 2010 2:54 PM
Build the Mosque, the Muslims are already at ground Zero!
There are hundreds if not thousands of Muslims who live around the area of ground zero. The Mosque is just showing us what is actually going on in the neighborhood. Bush allowed a lot of them to come to this country while he was in office, Bush stated his reason for doing so was, they helped us to remove Sadam and with the war. I think he was wrong for doing so, but Bush made a lot of dump decisions.
(23) Anonymous, August 17, 2010 2:53 PM
Build it elsewhere
The letter left out about the location. The same speech given with respect that the Mosque was being built somewhere else besides by ground zero, would be correct. Location, Location, Location! It's all about the location of the place. I don't live in NY, however when NY was attacked by terrorist two blocks from this propose Mosque-community center to be established rages me. I didn't lose family or friends at 9/11. I spent hours and days and years in efforts of our military and our freedom in the United States. My life changed after NY got attacked. Efforts in keeping morale up, endless hours with soldiers and their families who one was sent off to war. All the spiritual warfare, I can't even go into. After all these years in this war, and to build a Mosque like some memorial place speaks not about religious freedom but just how thoughtless those people involved in this Mosque are. These people are giving us reasons to hate them. And they are saying the terrorist people are not Islam? Well, the people building the Mosque are, do they even care that 87% of Americans are against this Mosque-community center being built in that location? NO they don't. Just like the terrorist didn't care that they destroyed the world trade center and killed so many people. Same kind of attitude from the religious and non religious terrorist as they say. Patterson, a city official, has offered them state land at a deal of a price, and the builder's owners has refused to accept that. They are determined to build it by ground zero. Doesn't sound like friendly neighbors already. This Mosques-community center is trying to give a message, they are conquering the United States whether the majority of Americans like it or not. Let's not forget where the Dome of the Rock sits! All cities needs to take focus of Islam owned property by a site that could be future terrorist invasion. They like to leave there mark! BUILD THIS COMMUNITY CENTER SOMEONE WHERE ELSE!!!!!
(22) Mikhail, August 17, 2010 2:50 PM
To Build or not to build?
They should be allowed to build on one condition... for as long as a functional Synagogue and or a church to be erected in mecca.,
(21) Dvirah, August 17, 2010 2:45 PM
Usage
The above speech is correct if the building in question is being used only for worship (prayer). The activities can be investigated and if found to be subversive, the place can be closed down legally.
(20) , August 17, 2010 2:33 PM
its a BIG NO!
(19) Rivkah, August 17, 2010 2:27 PM
Triumph on the ashes of our loved ones
Should the Nazi's have marched in Skokie IL in the 70's as was their right? No, it was too hurtful to the residents who happened to be Holocaust survivors. Look at the islamization of European cities; in Berlin, a center similar to the proposed cordoba center had to be shut down due to their "activities". Please don't rely on American "fluff" media for your information. Look at BBC news & other alternatives where you'll learn just what a threat this proposed mosque is.The muslims are well-known for placing mosques to ahow their triumph over we infidels. NOT IN NY!!!
(18) Anonymous, August 17, 2010 2:26 PM
There is legality ans sensitivity. What are the muslims trying to say when they insist on erecting a muslim only site near ground zero? This will aonly further animosity toward their religion if they insist on going forward. In the spirit of peace why not refrain and donate some funds to victims? Why not build a ecumenical center for all religions? The Imams are not telling us the truth. They want a monument to their victory and are using our legal system to get it. Shameful!!
(17) Anonymous, August 17, 2010 2:25 PM
Religious freedom
The religious freedom of Muslims stops at the end of their suicide belts. Not a day goes by when Muslims aren't blowing themselves, other Muslims, or "infidels" to smithereens. I suggest you speak to ex-Muslims (all of whom have death threats from Muslims threatening their lives) like Walid Shoebat about how "peaceful" Islam is. Michael Bloomberg, you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself. Practice saying "Allah Akbar" and bending your waist and knees several times a day, because that will be the result of all of this. Islam is a violent way of life, and the more you deny this, the faster we'll all have to pay with our liberties.
(16) Lesly, August 17, 2010 2:20 PM
For Muslims, Tolerance is a One-Way Street
Notice how muslims demand their rights and religious tolerance but are the most narrow minded, bigoted, intolerant group. Mayor Bloomberg, had he lived in Germany in the 1930's, would have been telling other Jews that the Nazi's were there friends and not to make waves. No mosque should ever be built on American soil because muslims believe that once built, it is Muslim holy land forever. It is no longer US soil but Islamic soil. Wake up America!
(15) Anonymous, August 17, 2010 2:18 PM
Peace or Plan to Conquer?
Statements in the Koran lead me to believe that Islam is actually a battle plan presenting itself under the guise of a religion. If they are building the mosque for the sake of peace, and they now know that it is offending thousands, why then don't they propose to build it somewhere else, for peace?
(14) Asher, August 17, 2010 2:09 PM
No words will change your mind so why bother...
Mr Mayor, Shame on you that you would believe for even a second that the ulterior motive of building a Mosque on the holy ground where over 3000 men, women and children died is to make a somewhat of a peace treaty with the muslims, jews, christians, african americans, indians, etc. They have taken over the Temple Mount in Jerusalem as well as in Turkey and in many other places and have not had a success in the so called peace making. I am not going to say that there are no exceptions since there are many great muslims amoung New Yorkers, but they are the ones who would agree to have the Mosque built in a less sensitive area. We must leave Ground Zero alone and do not disturb the souls who have been lost there. As a jew, would you build a synagogue at the site where there was a mass murder, I do not think so. Yes the freedom for religion is great but there must be also sensitivity towards each other as that is the basis for all freedom. Without caring for each other what is the point of being free..
(13) Baruch, August 17, 2010 2:00 PM
Ask yourselves WHY in all of NYC they chose this location
then you'll know why it shouldn't be there
(12) Ronni, August 17, 2010 1:54 PM
Love The Mayor/Hate This Policy
I have the greatest respect for Mayor Bloomberg but religious freedom has nothing to do with this. When the World Trade Center is destroyed in the name of Islam and then a mosque is put in it's place that seems a monument to the terrorists and to what they did. Nobody can see it any other way and it's the ultimate disrespect to choose this site. By allowing this to go forward you will be burdening the city with the security it'll take to keep that mosque and it's worshippers safe as the many crazies or not so crazies will never let it stand.
(11) David Altschul, August 17, 2010 1:39 PM
Government's first job
The most important and legitimate function of government is protecting its citizens. A mosque is a place where people gather to study the Koran, text that teaches the sacred obligation of Muslims to slay or subjugate all who do not believe (see, for example, the recent slaying of 80 Pakistanis in a mosque not considered orthodox enough). Thomas Jefferson wrote that when strict obedience to the letter of the law causes the country to be threatened, we lose the reason for the law itself. Enemies of freedom, women's rights, America, and open debate may find places to gather. Why do we need to allow them to furrow and foment in the shadow of their 3000-corpse victory?
(10) Barbara Ray, August 17, 2010 1:36 PM
Insensitive not prohibitive
I believe the choice of this site to build the mosque is insensitive and will lead to YEARS of diruption, and attacks on the building and the people in attendance by our own "fanatics". I agree with Mayor Bloomberg AND our Consitiution allowing for religious freedom, but the wounds are too fresh! Surely there are other parcels of real estate in Manhattan that could be purchased for the building of the mosque and community center. I agree with Mr. Foreman ( see comments above) regarding the motivation behind the building of the mosque. I question whether Mayor Bloomberg or ANYONE in New York City government met with these people to try and disuade them and redirect their plans to another site. AND, if these people are so "peace loving" WHY would they want to cause more hurt on the people of this country - especially those in lower Manhattan who actually witnessed the disaster of 9/11?
(9) Lindsay, August 17, 2010 1:22 PM
AMEN!!!!
Thank you!!!!! Every time we justify denial of the rights this country stands for, we have the crazies another victory. AMEN to the ideas in this statement, and a round of applause to Aish for publishing it, especially in light of the prejudice against all Muslims I am hearing in so many of our community gatherings. We as Americans, must continue to stand for freedom, civil rights and not allow ANYONE to chip away at those precious things in the name of "safety", "feelings" or bigotry! Happily sharing this piece with everyone online! Thank you!
(8) , August 17, 2010 1:19 PM
Charles Krauthammer Got It Right!
Charles Krauthammer's article gets it right on target. The sensitivity to those opposed to building a mosque in this location is a true test of understanding, mutual respect, discernment, consideration, compassion, understanding and the heart of the matter. The lack of sensitivity of those insisting on building in this location speaks volumes. Enough said.
(7) esther, August 17, 2010 1:11 PM
wake up my fellow jews
now do we see? of course under the us constitution the muslims have the right to build a mosque. jews have been selling their abandoned synagogues to muslims thru-out ny. as we jews cling less and less to our torah,the muslims cling steadfast to their koran.
(6) Liora, August 17, 2010 1:11 PM
Build elsewhere
The issue is not whether a mosque can be built but whether it is wise or compassionate to build it at Ground Zero. There are plenty of sites in New York to build a mosque so why is this site so important. And why would the builders wish to name it after another 'conquered' city; Cordoba? I've not heard much in the media about the gay gentleman who plans to place a gay club next door to the proposed site. Will HE be tolerated?
(5) Kathy, August 17, 2010 1:10 PM
Freedom of religion IS NOT the issue, DOMINANCE is. They continue to use this as their battering ram to override the will of the people in this matter; to be able to make a statement to the underlying radical Islamic's as a sign of continued progress in conquering the infidels.
(4) Sam, August 17, 2010 1:07 PM
Useful Idiot
This is not a issue of religious freedom. We must get off of the "political correct" train. Reality is the purpose of this mosque is to celebrate the event, and the "victory". Is not an issue of if they CAN build it there. The issue is dealing with the sensitivity of the location, applying common sense, and not letting "what should be the right thing" get in the way of saying "no". If this gets built, watch - in no time, we will hear about how the murdering terrorists who hijacked planes will be made into heroes. Bloomberg - you are the perfect example of an useful idiot - the Islamists will use you until they have control and will take away the very freedoms you are wrongfully defending right now. They are not interested in making peace - they are using the system until they control the system.
(3) karen, August 17, 2010 1:03 PM
you have got to be kidding me!
obviously, there are loads of insensitive people who forgot Sept. 11, 2001. those who lost loved ones are forever walking around hurt (I know I am even IF I did not lose anyone close, but I barely escaped from the city on that day). I will repeat as I responded at the end of the second seder this past Pesach, when someone commented at my table: 'we are liberals, and proud of it; as if there is something wrong with having a muslim president'. and I answered, 'absolutely nothing wrong with it! but tell me another religion which has people strapping bombs to their bodies, and are willing to explote themselves in order to kill others?' no one said a word. furthermore, to allow this building to go up near Wall St. (financial district) is to hand them over America for free. Wall St. = money and money is power. we must remember the words of Martin Luther King Jr.. and we must remember that in the USA, you are allowed to scream 'fire!' as long as you don't hurt others. well, this hurts others.
(2) David Foreman, August 17, 2010 11:20 AM
Why not build it somewhere else.
The argument for religious freedom is compelling, something we as Jews appreciate. Why here so close to where Islamic fundamentalists destroyed freedoms for 3000 people and to a lesser extent the freedoms of the rest of the free world? It is the Islamic agenda that is the real question. Not radical Islam, mainstream Islam. Read the Koran, it is certainly not a peaceful tolerant view of the world. Jihad, forced conversion, submission to Islam are its main theme . The fate of the non-believers, the infidels is not a peaceful one. Only the true believers (according to Mohammed) will have salvation. Very little wiggle room for tolerating others' beliefs. Also what is their agenda here.? The Dome of the Rock is a glaring example of their agenda. It stands on our holiest place forbidding our access to a site mentioned many many times in the Torah, AND NEVER ONCE IN THE KORAN. The presence of the Dome of the Rock is a statement of Islamic arrogance, just as this proposed mosque/community center is an attempt at showing Muslim victory in the heart of the Great Satan (USA). Wake up world!! If it were about religious freedom, a compassionate religion would not want to put this shrine at the heart of its victims. The Muslims know the difference and are hiding behind the cloak of our religious freedom and tolerance.
(1) Doron, August 17, 2010 10:56 AM
Equal Opportunity Political Correctitude = Death to a Generation
We can all see the sense in being fair and holding to principles, but what if we allowed someone to drill a hole under their seat while sitting in a row boat with them in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean? There has got to be another way to hold our principles dear and at the same time, manage this potentially fatal fiasco…