Holocaust Deniers

Debate or ignore?

Comments (34)

(30) CHRISTINE MASSEY, May 9, 2011 3:06 AM

YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED AT THE AMERICANS WHO DO NOT EVEN KNOW THESE HOLOCAUST DENIERS EVEN EXIST.I FIND IT A PROBLEM THAT ANY HISTORY BE DENIED I BELIEVE IT SHOULD BE DEBATED TO LET MORE PEOPLE KNOW THESE TYPES OF PEOPLE EXIST.THEY ARE DANGEROUS TO ALL PEOPLES.

(29) Beverly Kurtin, May 7, 2011 2:19 AM

I will not debate

I live in Texas. We have some really great people living down here, and we've got more than our share of Jew Haters (Arabs are also Semetic). I just look at a denier and ask if their parents were married when he or she was born. No matter what they say, I just say, "I doubt that" and walk away. It is astounding to me that something that happened in my life time can be denied by some people. Forty-seven of my aunts, uncles and cousins went to the ovens and that person is telling me it never happened? However, there have been times when I do ask, "Why do you say that?" They cannot wrap their heads around an atrocity of that magnitude. To them, it couldn't have happened like that so they think they have to deny it. Let's face it, if you were not Jewish and someone told you about the horrors our people went through, would YOU believe it? The people I cannot stand are the ones who see something in my house that commemorates the Shoa. They may say something like you're Jewish? I didn't know that. When are you Jews going to drop this crap about the Holocaust; haven't you made enough money off that yet? I ask them to come with me, I open the front door and shove them out of my house. And DON'T COME BACK. I refuse to be spat on in my own home! So the bottom line here is that it depends on the individual whether I try to reason with them or not. Let's face it, it is hard to accept that supposed human beings could be so callous as to do what they did. Had I been born over there, my brains would have been smashed out of my skull. Why? For what reason?

(28) iris, May 2, 2011 4:03 AM

response to : To debate or not to debate Holocaust deniers

I have come to trying to educate, not debate the 1 or 2 people I have come into contact with that have either been told, or that have read that either the Holocaust didn't happen, or that we Jews exagerated &/or embellished the facts . Such as : " Oh, it wasn't that bad, you know the Jews are always complaining " . I then began to educate those people . My feelings were that if I can change just one persons mind/view, that in effect, that just that one person could possibly change many peoples belief . For example : that persons children, relatives, friends and so on . Or at the very least, I have shown one person that their previous information regarding the Holocaust and Jews was horribly,hurtfully,wrong and anti-semetic without knowledge of the truth . It also helps if you allow a denier or someone that has had no aquaintance or friendship with a non-stereo type Jewish person into your world and show them by example who you are . I believe it defuses the fear and the ignorance . People ( yes, even Jews ) fear what they do not know or are not familiar with . Iris

(27) peter kraynik, April 30, 2011 6:46 PM

Agree with Rabbi

Trouble makers, want to use people to stir up hate and ignorance. Why play into their hand? Truth is is truth. If someone is genuinly interested; the truth is available. G-d will make all right in HIS way and time. Till then, there is much to learn, understand,and wait. G-d is patient with us. We should be patient with HIM.

(26) Gary Katz, April 30, 2011 6:13 PM

The poetic justice I wish could be

If Rod Serling were alive today, he could write a "Twilight Zone" episode where a Holocaust denier finds himself transported back in time to one of the camps, wearing the inmates' uniform, tattoo on arm (he did do a similar scenario, involving a former Nazi). One question about Holocaust denial is, how many of these pea brains really believe their drivel, versus they know they're lying, but they just want attention and to foster hatred?

(25) Amber, April 30, 2011 5:19 PM

In High School....

When I was riding the bus home from High School one day, the neighbor kid fogged up the window and drew a swastika. I asked him, "Do you know what that symbolizes?" When he said no I asked if I could visit him later in the afternoon and he said yes. I came to see him later with some books I had on the Shoah and gave him a brief lesson. He looked at me right in the eyes and said, "You're lying, those books are lies. That never happened." Instead of arguing with him in his own house, I gathered up my books and went home. A year went by, and in our Junior English class we read "Night" by Eli Wiessel and went over the Shoah. My goodness....the look on his face in that class! He pulled me aside in the hallway after class and said, "Amber, you were telling the truth all along! How did you know?!" Sometimes debating is, or isn't necessary. I believe that when it's not, realization of the truth will come out sooner or later.

(24) robin, April 30, 2011 2:41 AM

how can you debate insanity?

when someone is psychotic, you don't try to "reason" with them because it's not possible. they are in their own world. the same is true of these people. It's an absurdity not worthy of giving it any credibility.

(23) Anonymous, April 29, 2011 5:40 PM

I AGREE WITH RABBI SALOMON 100% . ANYONE WHO DENIES THE HOLOCAUST CANT HAVE A LEGITIMATE REASON BEHIND SO THEY ARE GOING TO DENIE EVEN FACTS

(22) Independent, April 28, 2011 3:57 PM

Denial is a signal

Denial of the Shoah is an outward and visible sign of an inward spiritual disgrace. The evidence is so clear and overwhelming that denial obviously stems from motives other than a desire for historical truth. That is why the renegade Bishop Williamson has been totally inhibited by the Pope from exercising any clerical functions. I think that one should always debate matters of history demanding that those who deny the obvious, such as the Shoah and the record of anti-Jewish activity by the Grand Mufti and his followers well before the foundation of the State of Israel, should be confronted with facts and evidence.

(21) SusanE, April 28, 2011 3:46 PM

I Agree with Rabbi Salomon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I agree Rabbi Salomon. Debating with irrational people brings us to an irrational level... it puts us in a position of winning and losing. Winning doesn't depend on how well you debate the facts... it depends on the attitude of those who are listening to the debate. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Holocaust deniers don't care whether there was a Holocaust or not. ~~~~~~~~~~~ Let me repeat that...Holocaust deniers don't care whether there was a Holocaust of not. ~~~~ You are right when you say they have an agenda... and that agenda is to discredit Jews in every way... and they always know what issues are inflammatory. Rise above those people who would loudly deny your history. Always be aware of the deniers, but remain dignified toward what you know to be true. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gary Katz, April 30, 2011 6:17 PM

Anti-semites have never needed facts

Good point! Propagandists don't care about the size of the lie. I remember when the Palestinians claimed the Israelis killed 500 people in Jenin, when the total turned out to be about 50. How could anyone be off by so much? After all, it's hard to mistake a live body for a dead one. The answer is, they just say whatever they feel like, and they don't let facts (stubborn nuisances) get in their way.

(20) Ariel, April 28, 2011 2:22 PM

How is this different from Israel advocacy?

I definitely understand your point but how is this different than debating people who say that we unjustly took Eretz Yisrael? Anti-Zionism has certainly become legitimized and even encouraged, and maybe if there would have been as much Israel advocacy fifty years ago as there is today it wouldn't have become so widespread. Or maybe, if there wasn't as much Israel advocacy today things would also be better. Many people argue that if the Gilad Shalit campaign wouldn't have become so publicized it would be a lot easier to free him (in fact I saw a video on Aish.com arguing that point). Maybe the same thing applies for Israel too?

(19) Anonymous, April 28, 2011 1:06 AM

Holocaust Deniers

One should definitely stand up to a Holocaust Denier. Depending on the circumstances and the person. Most people who are Anti-Semites know very little or nothing about the Jewish people, just 2nd hand information passed down from their peers. To confront these people is not the way to do it. Although you might feel to call them stupid, ignorant and your blood starts to boil. This is NO WAY to deal with it. They will walk away insulted and that they were right. Dealing with these people in a friendly manner not lecturing, but educating them would be far more fruitful, Telling them about my own experience, that I have seen a stream of Holocaust Survivors coming out of concentration camps, a pittiful lot of human misery, emotionally and physically drained skeletons, just skin and bones. A sight I will never forget. This was in Breslau, Silesia, now Poland in 1945. Not only Jewish people, but Germans and many other nationalities. One of my uncles was one of them. I have worked with them in post war years over 10-30 years later. The Anti-Semitics I have run into were for the most part ignorant and nice, misguided people, even today. Telling them what the Jewish people have endured, suffered, being discrimated, they were blamed for all the world's disasters over the past 2000 years. They were not allowed to practice a trade, but were pushed out by the Trade Guilds. Christians were not allowed to charge interest on money, but Jews were. That Kings, weathy people gave their money to the Jews to make more money for them and on top charged them protection money. Fortunately, if the Jews were to blame every single German and their children,today and for generations, 2000 years to come, what the Germans / Nazis did to the Jews - it would be the same what Christians/Gentiles did to them. - But fortunately not.

Anonymous, April 30, 2011 2:32 PM

The holocaust deniers are of 2 kinds: The one who are antisemites, those don't care about the Jews, the veracity of the holocaust and what really happened. Those who are ignorant, miss-informed, peer-pressured to that attitude. Those should be informed, but the onlly way to do it is to choose something they really care for themselves and ask them what would they feel if it was denied to them suddenly, the way it was denied in very practical examples to Jews. . The same thing hold for statements against Israel. Ask how many times they would agree to have their home targeted by rockets with the police/army/governement being idle As for "giving back" territories, ask them how many would agree to go to and Indian reservation and give their property back to the "Native Americans" whose ancestors were leaving it is even more powerful for persons who have a summer house occupied only part time, the Indians were "kind of nomads" moving in winter toward warmer places for example). Of course that applies better if the person has more belongings

(18) Nancy, April 28, 2011 12:07 AM

Keep Quiet?

I don't think I could remain silent if I heard someone denying the Holocaust. I firmly believe, "To thine ownself be true." Remaining quiet in the face of this anti semetic behavior would not help me to be true to my own beliefs.

(17) Dov, April 27, 2011 9:22 PM

Not questions but excuses

Holocaust deniers are not looking for answers or proofs of the holocaust. Their denial is an 'excuse', not a 'reason' for antisemitism. The same goes for all the other conflicting 'excuses' for antisemitism such as rich jews, poor jews, jews that assimilate, jews that remain different etc. There is no point debating with these people because they have no interest in listening to the answers. We must simply continue sending out true information and evidence to educate the world in general.

(16) Bill Vanderhoof, April 27, 2011 8:51 PM

Debate them

I have a different view than the Rabbi's and the rest of the posters here. I say debate them and if you have your guns loaded for the debate the deniers will run out enough rope to hang themselves. Logical thinking and knowledgeable debate will always show the deniers for what they are, that is bigoted, anti semites that should be exposed for what they are. Remember a quote from Shakespear that went something like this "The play's the thing wherein we catch the concious of the King" That may not be verbatim but it is close enough. During a free wheeling debate one of the parties is sure to blurt out something that is really offensive but will show his true colors for all the world to see. So debate 'em and watch them self destruct.

(15) Adam Zioin, April 27, 2011 7:52 PM

David Irvins vs. Deboral Lipstadt

This trial shows the correct way to handle such a debate. Lipstadt effectively destroy's any claims to historical legitimacy by Shoah deniers in her case. -Z http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_v_Penguin_Books_and_Lipstadt

Solly Berger, April 28, 2011 9:54 AM

Never get into an argument with "Jews for Jesus". They are armed with quotations you have never heard of and they always win the debate. The same applies to Holocaust Deniers. Unless you are armed with detailed facts and statistics, you wont win. For me- I choose to igniore them

(14) Winnie, April 27, 2011 7:43 PM

The sanity of those who deny the holocaust should be questioned But we Christians of Britain must also repent for the harm we did during the crusades

(13) Anonymous, April 27, 2011 7:29 PM

ignorance or arrogance

a SAGE SAID, "THEY WILL BELIEVE WHAT THEY WANT"...about heresy believers..is it not the same about these people or is it " ignorance"? If we know it's ignorance we should refute but if it's "arrogance"...ignore them.

(12) Paul ~ Santa Rosa, California, April 27, 2011 6:50 PM

Perhaps Germany & Austria have not done enough in seeking forgiveness for the holocaust

Dear Rabbi Salomon, Excellent Video & certainly something to think about. Perhaps Germany & Austria have not done enough for the Jewish people, perhaps they never can. I have met many Germans & Austrians in India that wanted to do something for Jewish people but did not really know what to do. Seeking forgiveness for the holocaust was very important for them, even for younger Germans & Austrians. Perhaps the governments of the countries that participated in the holocaust should be approached with some good ideas of what more they could be doing to help the Jewish people, especially the people of Israel. One idea that I am in favor of is ongoing educational grants for Jewish people, not just holocaust survivors. Grants and scholarships given from Germany & Austria to Jewish people, welcoming Jewish people and encouraging another Viktor Frankl another Albert Einstein and being proud to have them as a guest could be a step forward.

(11) Meira, April 27, 2011 6:29 PM

No time, no space!

In this case I'd rather understand G0d's words about erasing Amalek’s name pretty literally. Completely ignoring them is the best way of saving time and space for real battle with evil.

(10) M.D., April 27, 2011 4:49 PM

agree 100%!! But one thing we should always make sure, to clarify that the reason we ignore is because we don't debate people who try and have self-interest in siding to one opinion.

(9) Binyomin, April 27, 2011 3:37 PM

Debate them and more.

Debate them and more. Jews have long stood down from antisemites. We need to face these people give them the facts not only so they can hear it but so can others. The more people that hear the facts the better. I am also a Jew of action. I have never walked away from an antisemite that has made any comments to me. I return the favor and it has come to blows on many instances. If every Jew had done this in Europa maybe, just maybe the shoah numbers would have been reduced. If every nazi was met with bullets, clubs or even a fist that buys time and time buys saving Jewish lives during World War II. I believe in the other Jewish way.

(8) David S. Levine, April 27, 2011 3:13 PM

Rabbi Solomon Correct (In Most Cases)

In most cases Rabbi Solomon is correct. Indeed most Holocaust deniers began life feeling (but never thinking) that the Holocaust was a good thing. Then they made the leap to denial. However there are cases when it is more than proper to answer them. A prime example of this is when Deborah Lipstat answered David Irving and drove him to sue her in the English court system where the burden of proof was on her, not him. When she was victorious in court Holocaust denial was dealt a serious blow. (This was also the case in Los Angeles when a denier actually put up a reward if someone could prove the Holocaust happened and had to pay up when he lost the case). So, there is a general rule that leans against debating them and exceptions when they can be made to look ridiculous. One complements the other.

(7) Paul Winter, April 27, 2011 2:45 PM

Debate or not debate

It is too clever by half to ignore Jew-haters. Sure, we don't "debate" facts, but neither should we let such vile and hurtful perversion of history go unanswered. We should read (or if one has a sufficiently strong stomach) what those mamzers spout and then we should make a statement pointing out their stupidities and their venom. We should not withdraw from joining battle with such low-life creatures, because silence is taken as an acceptance of their villainous lies as "truth".

(6) Anonymous, April 27, 2011 2:43 PM

Same as debating Christians

I heard the same argument 50 or so years ago re debating Christianity. We don't do that . I spent over 40 years in Christianity until a Jewish debater showed me the errors I had espoused. Jews fight injustice before it again swallows us up.

(5) Anonymous, April 27, 2011 2:28 PM

Holocaust Deniers

Debating Holocaust deniers is probably a waste of time because maybe these deniers do or do not believe there was a Holocaust. That is not as important as the fact that they want those who don't know one way or the other to believe it did not happen. If you repeat a lie enough times, people will believe it. The answer is education. The only problem with that is that many people, Jews included, feel that the Holocaust has been used for far too long as an excuse for everything and anything Jewish. The fact is, that the Holocaust historically is still so new, that we are still numb from its magnitude and cannot comprehend its enormity and the tragedy that ensued. Therefore, as time goes on, it will be the responsibility of the next generations to continue to transmit what happened. The problem is, that it is a race against time. We have to get to those who don't know about the Holocaust, before the deniers do. The survivors are dying out and the youngest survivors are in their late 70's and early 80's. Therefore, once again I say that education en masse is the only answer to the Holocaust deniers, with all the truth, pictures, and evidence that exists. And there is alot, enough for most people to believe that it happened.

(4) Paul Klein, April 27, 2011 2:26 PM

Debate the right adversary

The people with whom we should debate this issue are those who would listen to the deniers as if those people had something to offer. The deniers? i agree with Rabbi Salomon: they aren't interested in truth or reason. Only denying them converts to their thinking will block them.

(3) Sylvie7, April 27, 2011 12:02 PM

Agree

I agree with Rabbi Salomon. Is there actually someone who wastes his/her time debating deniers?

(2) FRAN DUFF, April 27, 2011 11:38 AM

NO DEBATES WITH ANTI-SEMITES

I agree debating with such fools would be foolish in that they would use the debating to twist minds who do not think for themselves or seek truth. There is all kinds of documentation, photos, news media files, and President Eisenhower had a document video film especially made up for those who wanted to deny it ever happen. NO DEBATE WITH IDIOTS/ ANTI SEMITES.

(1) Anonymous, April 26, 2011 1:31 PM

Some people are just looking to provoke and don't seem to care about evidence

In that case, I don't feel its worth it to respond. We have our reasons to retain our beliefs. I do agree that its best we don't argue with those who are not capable of thinking rationally.

Anonymous, April 27, 2011 11:59 AM

Debating these deniers, will not change their way of seeing Jews. It is part of their DNA. History has proven this repeatedly. I say, ignore them and keep this endless battle going by disproving them with historical facts. This is the Jewish way.

 

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