I'm a 25-year-old, single woman. I have been studying for my nursing degree. Lately my professors have been pointing out that they feel I'd make a wonderful physician. I know I will enjoy being a nurse, but do not know if I'd be reaching my fullest potential. Being a doctor has been a thought in the back of my mind for a few years now, but I feel that doctors may encounter conflicts when it comes to being a mother, and God-willing when I am a mother, my children will be the most important thing to me. I am concerned that I could wind up both a "sub-par" mother and doctor.
However, there's another thought that nags at me. What if I don't get married? I very much want to, but there are no guarantees. I put effort and time into dating on top of school and other things I have going on in my life, but what if in another few years I am a nurse.... and still single. I constantly strive to better myself as a person. When I entered the dating scene I wasn't even career-minded. I just wanted to get married and start a family, but things worked out very differently.
What should I do in this situation? How can I build my life around marriage and children that don't yet exist?
Shoshie
Dear Shoshie ,
We're glad you wrote to us. You're predicament isn't that uncommon among women who have been raised with the expectation that being become wives and mothers is the most important role they can fulfill in life, and that having a career is of secondary importance. That may seem like an anachronistic viewpoint to some of the people who read our column, because contemporary Western culture often seems to endorse the view that one finds the greatest fulfillment in a career, and that the role of parents is a secondary one. However, the traditional Jewish worldview is that one's role as a parent and spouse (and how we live our lives as God's children) is far more important than the career we pursue.
We like the way a friend of ours described how he prioritizes his life. He's a former air force officer, earned degrees from prestigious American universities, and co-owns a successful high-tech start-up. "I love what I do for a living. It's exciting and challenging." he says, "But the primary focus of my life is learning Torah and building a Jewish family. My livelihood is just a means for me to accomplish what's really important."
Our friend made an important point -- even though our career may be a means to an end rather than the focal point of our life, it can certainly be stimulating, fulfilling, and lucrative. And you made an important point in your letter -- that an individual should choose a career they think will be compatible with their priorities and the lifestyle they want to live.
A different career may provide more fulfillment, but you're not sure whether to pursue it.
As we see it, your dilemma is whether the field you're currently studying, which you think you will enjoy and which you feel is compatible with being a mother and raising a family, will provide you with intellectual stimulation and a sense of fulfillment, or whether you should begin to study for a different career -- one that you're not even sure you want to pursue, and which you think will have an adverse effect on your ability to be a good mother. When we present the dilemma this way, without naming the careers themselves, there seem to be better reasons to stick with the career you are currently studying. Still, it's a good idea to find out answers to some of the other questions you've raised before coming to a decision.
You wonder whether you'll reach your fullest potential as a nurse. Is that because what you are studying isn't stimulating, or because you've caught onto the material quickly and want to learn more, or because other people are telling you that you're "too capable" to be a nurse (sadly, some physicians don't appreciate the fact that nurses are eminently capable and often play a greater role in day to day patient care than doctors)? Most of the people we know in the nursing field love their profession and find it to be rewarding and stimulating. There are dozens of areas of specialization for holders of basic nursing degrees, as well as a great deal of room for advancement for nurses who want more responsibility and higher income, such as the fields of nurse-practitioner, nurse-anesthetist, nurse-midwife, clinical nurse specialist, and nurse researcher. Why not speak with some people who work in various specialties to get a better idea of how you can excel and advance in this field?
At the same time, we think it's a good idea to look into the idea of becoming a doctor. Be honest with yourself -- is this a career you'd really like to have? For what reason -- the responsibility it entails, the challenges, the impact it will have on others, the prestige, the income? Are you prepared to go through college, medical school, residency, and a fellowship before you have a medical specialty? How will you handle the costs, the time commitment, the possibility of relocating to attend medical school or find a residency? After considering all of these questions, ask yourself which career you would choose if being a doctor wouldn't keep you from "being the kind of mother you want to be."
If your answer is "a doctor," then we suggest you explore the impact this career may have on your goal of raising a family. Speak to doctors and medical students who are also mothers, to see how they are able to balance their responsibilities to their families and their responsibilities to their studies, residency programs, or practices. It is important for you to speak to women whose overall lifestyles and perspectives are more like yours. We think you will be surprised to learn that most of the women you speak with are dedicated mothers who have made their careers compatible with their family lives, and that many of have a number of children.
Ask them how they handle the balancing act, and if they have regrets.
You'll also find that while medical students and residents have grueling schedules that provide less than optimal time for family life, after leaving their residencies, medical moms often work in specialties that allow for flexible hours and schedules. Ask them how they handle the balancing act, if they have regrets, and what they like about they way they combine career and motherhood. Then, you can decide if you want to try to combine being a doctor with motherhood.
The final question you've raised is: "If I don't become a doctor because I think it's incompatible with motherhood, and I don't get married, will I regret the choice I've made?" We can't answer that for you. However, you're not choosing between an "inferior" career and a "superior" one. Either choice has many benefits -- both careers require intelligence and dedication and can provide you with a stimulating, fulfilling way to earn your livelihood. And each choice has positive and negative aspects.
It may help you to bear in mind that many people have a difficult time choosing a career, and weigh various factors before making their choice. A person who hopes to move to Israel someday may decide on a career that is in demand in that country. Another person may make a decision after reading articles that predict the best careers for the next decade. Someone else may decide to go into the family business and take courses that are relevant to that industry. But, there's a Yiddish expression, "Man plans and God laughs." The move to Israel may never happen, the predicted career may become obsolete, and the family business may go under.
And even though you worry that you may not get married, we hope that you focus instead on the positive. With God's help, you will get married. And at the same time that you pursue this goal, you will also be pursuing a career that interests you and that you hope will be compatible with the lifestyle you aspire to have. Although you won't know the turns your life will take, you'll be well prepared to encounter them.
We wish you all the best,
Rosie & Sherry
(18) Mordechai, October 22, 2007 12:52 AM
Go For It!
On this very website (Aish.com)
there is an "audio" by Rabbi Noach Orlowek (titled: The Dating Process for Older Singles)
in which he relates that a young man told him that he was dating a young lady who wanted to be a doctor - which the young man didn't like.
Rabbi Orlowek explains that he urged to the young man to marry somebody else -
because he saw no reason why she shouldn't become a doctor - and he speaks very highly of women who are doctors (if that's what they choose to be) - explaining that there's no reason to disuade them.
Caveat: Although the previous commenter stated (correctly) that in order to make it work, you will need your spouse's cooperation, I will add that You are the one who will need to find the appropriate balance so that your children won't suffer from your absence.
I have seen this work very well in the case of my former neighbor - and the reason it worked so well was because she was able to find the right balance so that her children were never neglected.
(You can access this "audio" from this very page on Aish.com - by "clicking" (above) on the line which reads
"Hear Related audio on this topic" -
and then clicking again - next to Rabbi Orlowek's name.
(17) Gisele, October 18, 2007 8:09 AM
a woman can only have it all career and family if
her spouse helps out too. without both spouses pulling their weight family ansd work can't work in this day and age plain and simple.
(16) Liora, October 12, 2007 10:28 AM
go for it!
In my community at home, there are multitudes of medical moms. They have specialities such as the ROAD a previous comment posted about, they are also surgeons, pathologists, pediatricians, gynecologists, etc. All of them are excellent doctors and excellent mothers. all of whom are married to doctors as well, might i add.
It isn't easy! and to be fair, all of them have only 1,2,or 3 children, but they seem to manage just fine in both their professional lives and home lives.
Shoshie-go for it! there is no time like the present, and if you do not pursue your dreams, you will regret it in the future. It sounds like what you really want is medical school, and it sounds like you are capable, so why have fear? Who knows, maybe you will meet a nice Jewish guy in medical school.
This issue is very pertinent to my life, because I long to be both a successful lawyer and a wife and eema, too.
Thanks for posting this issue out in the open, and Shoshie--may you find your true passion and your bashert soon!
(15) L. Kanterman, October 3, 2007 1:41 PM
Mrs MD
As a manager of a group of physicians that has seen 3 female physician-moms leave in the past year, I would caution you that medicine is a demanding mistress. It is almost impossible for a doctor-mom to balance career and family given the economics of modern medical practice. Bluntly, unless you pick certain specialties, there is not enough time to raise a family and make a "good" living in medicine. If you wish to be a doctor - hit the ROAD - Radiology, Opthalmology, Anesthesia, or Dermatology. These specialties have limited emergencies and lend themselves to a structured schedule, while still being lucrative on a limited time basis.
(14) R, October 2, 2007 6:49 PM
excellent advice
forget everyone's sob stories and really do your research on which job would be more fulfilling for you.
PA does seem like a good compromise...so it gives you a third thing to research.
I do have to make a comment about the prestige of nurses...although they don't get much, they really are more critical to the patients' care than the doctors. During my hospital stays, I have had horrible and amazing experiences, and with both extremes it was because of the nurses' skills and compassion.
(13) Anonymous, October 1, 2007 2:49 PM
I got that your passion and heart will tell you how to proceed.
I thought your article about the young 25 year old woman, deciding whether shw should continue nursing or become a doctor was very wise and thoughtful.
(12) Debbie, September 30, 2007 12:36 PM
Doctors daughter
I'm only twenty so I can't tell you much from the dating perspective, but I can talk as the daughter of two high powered physicians. I think you need to decide what makes you truly fulfilled and why, and do that.
Both of my parents are doctors and I grew up thinking that that was normal. I didn't realize how lucky I was to always have dinner with my parents and have them teach me Torah and be careful to spend extra time with me on Shabbas, and I didn't care if my father sometimes came home later because the time I had with him was quality time.
I don't regret their decisions. I have TONS of respect for them and their profession, and ya, I do think some of their stories are fascinating...and sometimes I don't have a clue what they're talking about! But they are my parents and I never felt lacking because they were doctors.
(11) Lisa, September 29, 2007 7:58 PM
Shoshie, fulfill your dreams
Shoshie, what a wonderful question to post, as MANY women have these concerns. Just 3 years ago when I was 25, I worried about the same thing. Ever since I was a child, I had wanted to become a veterinarian. I purposely postponed pursuing my passion, in hopes that I could find a man for marriage. Unfortunately, I wasted years waiting around. Living in Los Angeles, I found most Jewish men were not marriage-minded and were heavily influenced by the Hollywood culture (even the Orthodox men). A Rebbetzin took me out for coffee and advised me NOT to go to veterinary school. She told me I was making a BIG mistake, and that I should hang around Los Angeles in hopes of finding someone for marriage. I had reached a point in my life where I was frustrated with dating and the people I was meeting, and I decided to do what I always wanted to do... I went to veterinary school, and I graduate this May. My remaining unmarried is not a product of me following my dreams, but rather a product of the times. Men are not driven to get married in this society. I have left behind some wonderful girlfriends in Los Angeles. They are all well into their 30's now, and ALL remain unmarried. Even worse, many put off their passions in hopes of finding that elusive man. While I remain unmarried, I do not regret following my dreams. When I walk into that exam room with the patients and clients, I come ALIVE! I truly LOVE what I do, and as my father tells me, it is something I will always be proud of.
My biggest advice is follow your dreams, whether it be family first or career development. It is up to you to decide what you want. I also warn you to take into account the people you take advice from. Everyone has their own agenda. You need someone who really loves you to give you advice. Furthermore, should you consider going to medical school, I advise moving to a very Jewish area for medical school (like New York). As a veterinarian, I did not have this luxury, as most veterinary schools are in rural areas away from the Jewish masses. Many orthodox people have spouted that women with professions do not make good mothers. I have found this to be not true. I recently met a 50 year old women physician who raised 3 children. I was so impressed by her children, who are all very talented and grounded people. Make time to date while you are in medical school. This will help you balance you life. As another person advised, medical school is not a decision one makes on a wim. It costs money, time and energy... which all of these factors should be weighed carefully.
I wish you much mazel in making your decision! Furthermore, I hope a man recognizes your beauty and is not afraid to tell you.
(10) sonia, September 26, 2007 6:46 PM
too many doubts
Go on studying. You need not stop studying when dating. Maybe your husband to be is a doctor who needs a partner. And your children to be will enjoy your hospital stories. If you love helping othhers, health job is for you. And if Hashem gives us knowledge to understand people's diseases, and you like working in that, there is no need to stop it for dating. Rather find a husband to help you advance. I work in biochemistry and have a husband. sometimes he feels neglected, when I have to work beyond cook time hours sometimes he understands, more often he is proud of me. We are human beings. You should never put down the idea of a family because of climbing a ladder in your career. Because that is something you may regret. But you can be a mother AND a doctor, or a nurse, or a chemist. Of 6 women in my lab 5 are married, some 3 kids, one 4 kids. We all are like the octopus doing 100 things at the same time. May Hashem give you a man to love and be loved in return and a big family, AND a job you love and get well paid in return.
(9) JuJu, September 26, 2007 4:06 PM
You have to take care of yourself first. Think of the oxygen mask instructions on an airplane - they always stress that you have to put one on yourself first BEFORE doing so for your children; because, how much use are you to your children if you are dead?
Well, by the same token, you can't sacrifice your personal growth and development (if that is indeed what becoming a doctor would be a part of, for you - growth is highly individual) for the sake of your children (especially hypothetical ones). How happy a childhood are they going to have with an unfulfilled and despondent mother?
Besides, you just have to live in the here and now, and not base your decisions around the life you might (or might not) have in the future.
(8) mirriam, September 25, 2007 7:45 PM
Go for it
I don't know why you are 25 and still studying nursing as I thought it was a shorter program and could be accomplished before that age. Medical school is four years after college so if you had gone to medical school would you not have been finished by 26? Yes I know there is the residency etc but you do get paid for that.
So, if you have the stamina ( it is not merely brains) and the ability to sit and study, and the desire to do so, now is the right time. Who knows you may just meet a doctor to marry!
As for me, I did go for a Masters Degree before marriage but that was only because I was not married anyway, so what else was there to do with my extra time after work, especially as I was not dating that much anyway? Most of the other students were already married and wanted to further their careers so the pool for dates was small.
I think you should try and marry FIRST and then go to medical school. There are many babysitters who can help you with your family.
Again, do you have that stamina?
Most women do marry and have kids but few are physicians. Why? Because motherhood is a better choice and more satisfying. So if it is one OR the other, naturally choose motherhood, for sure. But if it is possible to have both, GO FOR IT!
(7) Nechama, September 25, 2007 1:04 AM
Here's the reality
Remember, just because a career is traditionally female does not make it necessarily more compatible with motherhood. Lower-paying jobs can be just as stressful and grueling as higher-paying ones, and usually more so. And you will have to put in more hours to make the same money, or less money. Take the career in which you'll be paid the most for your time. Then you'll be able to have a decent income and still have time for your children (as well as less aggravation and money worries.)
(6) Anonymous, September 24, 2007 11:34 AM
Practical Compromise
Why not become a Physician's Assistant? You earn better wages and have more responsibility and authority than a nurse, and get more respect from physicians. You perform many of the same procedures that doctors do, yet don't suffer from the incredible overhead in maintaining an office, malpractice insurance, paying back huge loans, etc. and the amount of schooling required is much less than medical school when you take into consideration the need for internship/residency etc. Becoming a Physician's Assistant is an ideal career for bright, medically-inclined frum women whose first priority is their family and home life.
(5) Anonymous, September 24, 2007 7:42 AM
I had this same quandry myself, 20 years ago-
and I made the wrong choice. I had a chance to go for my Masters In Social Work, and hold off marrying my ex husband a little bit. But at that time we were already dating 3 years, my mom has just passed away and I saw life was too short to put off marriage, so I married my ex husband, and decided to finish the last two months, of my bachelors degree- and then when i graduated I gave myself 6 months to find a job on my field, and if not go back for my master's degree- I was a newlywed then. I found a job with in a few months of my graduation, though oh I will work 1/2 years in my field then go back to for my advanced degree- but my boss quit during my first year of my job, and I temp, took over her job, but the job would not pay for me to get my master's degree to take that job permantely, and I resented that alot, and asked my ex if I quit that job and go full time back for my advanced degree my dad was to pay for the college, and we just had to live on one income, my field work/ plus class room studies did not allow me the time to work part time, my ex husband did not want us to live on his only income, despite it was only the two of us to support- no kids yet, and we just paid rent no house mortgage, etc. So I lost my chance to get my master's degree, and he even left his job to go into business for himself- with out even consulting with me, and I was resentful that he did that but would not let me leave my job to go back to advance myself- but I had to support his pype dreams. Then I felt well if he only wanted me to work and here we were married four years, it was time to have a child so we decided to get pregnant with my son. And I helped him with his business though my pregnancy- I got fired prior to my pregnancy the firm brought in their head, and she let me go- hired her own staff.So I was became pregnant Baruch hashem had my son, and took 6 years out of working to raise him, and went back to work part time when he entered school. By then my marriage was in trouble, and I was miserable. I had no desire to go for my master's degree. And just did Baruch Hashem my job part time, and basically raised our son alone, we divorced when my son was over 8 yrs old. I then added to my part time job as a Geriatric Social Worker, to be a sub preschool teacher, tyo help pay my son's Yeshiva. So any dream of mine of obtaining my master's desgree died with my marriage! And ever since I can't pursue this endeavior because I am a Single Mom on a fixed income, with an ex husband who pays no court ordered child support.And I work still part time because my son is having a very hard time dealling with his dad's total abandonment of him, and I have too may stresses in my life to work full time, and still raise my son alone with no help in any fashion. I am a worn out not bitter Chas Vashalom, single mom, but none the less I feel it is just too late for me to advance my carreer, but I am grateful that I at least went four years to college, which ios much more than my family and friends did in life, but my dad sees it as a waste of time and money- because I don't earn 50- 60 grand, and I struggle as a single mom, because I married the wrong man instead of maybe marrying a better man- someone else my parents wanted me to marry, or that I just did not go right after finishing my bachelors degree, go right away for the master's. I say if there is no guy in your life- and nothing to tie you down- go for any advance degree you can get, that is a sure thing marriage is not just as sure, and do not be like me wishing that I furthered myself, and not married the wrong guy! The only gift I have from my marriage is Baruch Hashem my son, but I wish that I could provide a better life for him and myself if I had that master's degree. If you have the support to do it- go for it girl. Work at your full potential, do what you are talented to do. And Marriage and kids will come if Hashem brings it to you with Brochot- now he has given you a chance to help humanity, and yourself, so why not go for it, while you have the ability, talent, the youth, and the freedom to pursue your dream. Do not be like me regretting the poor choices I have made.
I wish much Hatzlacha in what choices you make, and much success, mazel, and Brochot always. It is a shame that women have to be in these quandaries and men do not have to make so many sacarfices as women.
All the best- and I hope my story has helped make the right choice for yourself.
I wish you the best.
a Friend.
(4) Anonymous, September 23, 2007 5:05 PM
Tough decisions...
I was in a similar situation a number of years ago - I was a clinician in an allied health specialty for about 10 yrs. and people said I should study for my doctorate. I had wanted to go on but also wanted some clinical experience before pursuing the doctorate. I decided to pursue the doctorate - it's not all glamorous - it's a lot of hard work, and sometimes more than I thought I could handle. But, I'm nearing the end and am glad that I will have the credential and the career options it opens up for me. Some of my friends balked when I told them I was undertaking the doctorate, saying I was wasting valuable time that could be put to use dating for marriage. All that is true, but many things in life are trade-offs. The time will pass either way - whether you pursue medical school or not, and you may or may not meet your bashert in the meantime. What if your bashert is waiting for you in medical school or at your internship or residency? I made my decision based on what I wanted and what I knew would be good career-wise. That's what I could control or be in charge of. Meeting one's bashert can be a long road and there is NO guarantee that it'll happen at the time we want it to. If you put off pursuing medical school will you regret it in 5 years? 10 years? never? Only you know yourself best - your abilities, your interests, your own heart. Follow what's in your heart and mind and relax into whatever decision you make.
Some more food for thought: if you don't pursue medical school and practice as a nurse, and don't meet your bashert anytime soon, despite efforts to the contrary (as many older singles experience), how will you look back on your decision?
Whatever you do - may it be for the best!
(3) Anonymous, September 23, 2007 2:53 PM
Even when the woman works and is a mother
the husband has to help too. it is not fair for her to assume most of the responsiblity and the husband does not do his share- whether he is an Earner and a Learner, or one of the other! Too many women feel stessed and over welemed, when the husbands don't help in the house. Chesed, and Mitzvot begin in the home! Also I feel these issues must be discussed with the people we date prior to marriage- and if they do not see eye to eye- than the couple should not ever marry. Shanah Tovah to all.
(2) Anonymous, September 23, 2007 8:59 AM
Even with larger families
I know of many women who have five or more kids and work while their husbands are in kollel or because they have to make ends meet. My friend's sister-in-law just returned to work after having her fifth child and is managing just fine. Both of my sisters-in-law work and they have three children. I agree with Anna for the most part, since it is the man's job to support his family. However, there are many men who cannot support alone or are in kollel and choose to stay there for the long term. It is all up to the woman herself if she feels rushed, stressed and miserable, or happy, exhilerated and serene. I just came back from maternity leave after having my first child nine months ago and it is hard, but it is necessary for me to work.
(1) Anna (Israel), September 23, 2007 6:14 AM
Whom are we kidding?
B"H
The demands made on a woman today, to "have it all" and be a wife, mother, homemaker and career woman, are impossible. Suffocating. Unbearable. Potentially leading to misery, rush, worry, anxiety, stress and ruin of the woman's emotional and physical health. It might not be this way for a woman who only has two or three children, but we, as Jews, believe children are blessings - and who wants to prevent God's blessings? If a woman has a large family, a career - or even a regular job outside the home - is too heavy a toll, in my opinion. Isn't the husband, according to Torah, obligated to provide for his wife? "By the sweat of his brow" is men's curse, not women's.