Dear Ziva,
About four months ago, I met Adam on a dating site. He proposed meeting at a free concert in Central Park and I thought we had a really nice evening. He brought a picnic blanket, a bottle of wine and a box of strawberries. I found him attractive, engaging and romantic. He texted the next day to say he had a great time and wanted to see me again sometime soon. I said I felt the same way and waited for him to propose another date. More than a week went by before I heard from him again. He said things were really busy at work but he’d been thinking of me a lot. And yet he still didn’t invite me on a second date. It took two more weeks for that to happen.
Since then, we’ve seen each other only three times. He texts me at least once a week but doesn’t actually invite me out more than once a month or so. I would conclude that he isn’t that interested, but he says and does some very sweet things. He tells me I’m beautiful. He sends me romantic songs and funny GIFs. Once when I was sick, he arranged for a local deli to deliver some soup to my apartment. When we do see each other, he is gallant and charming, conversation flows easily, and I always have a wonderful time. I have to say I really like him a lot.
After we’d gone out three or four times, I asked if we were dating. He said, “I’m enjoying your company and getting to know you better. Why do we need a label for the time we spend together?” He said that when he hangs out with a new person from work or from his softball team, there’s no push to steer things in a specific direction or get to any given endpoint, but when he spends time with a woman, there’s always pressure to define the relationship and force it forward. He said it was like trying to force a flower to open faster instead of letting it happen naturally.
To be honest, when he said that, I felt embarrassed and exposed. Because the truth is that I do have an agenda – I want to get married and start a family. But when I told him that if he’s not interested in taking our relationship to the next stage, it would be best for us to stop seeing each other, he asked me why I was “throwing away all the great things between us.”
I didn’t expect him to resist my attempt to break it off and now I’m more confused than ever. Is it wrong for me to feel unsatisfied with the pace that things are unfolding? I just don’t know what to make of all the mixed messages here. If he admitted he wasn’t that interested, I would of course be very disappointed, but at least I would have clarity about the situation, which in some ways would be a relief. If he’s not that into me, why would he be so attentive during the (long) intervals between dates and why wouldn’t he let me go when I tried to move on?
Do you believe there’s any hope for this relationship? Should I just relax and give it more time? I honestly don’t know what to think anymore.
Please advise!
Beth
Dear Beth,
Because of all the young people who come to me with their relationship troubles, I have learned all the modern terminology for distressing behaviors in the dating world. A man suddenly disappears into thin air? He’s ghosting you. A woman lied about her age and weight? She was kitten-fishing. Your boyfriend couldn’t be nicer when you’re alone together, but he won’t introduce you to family or friends? You’re being stashed.
And now it sounds very much to me as if you, my lovely girl, are being breadcrumbed.
Breadcrumbing is the act of stringing the other person along, giving them just enough to keep them around but with no intention of committing.
Why is Adam doing this? Without knowing him, it’s impossible for me to say. Maybe he wants to keep all his options eternally open. Maybe he does this with regularity and it feeds his ego to think he has a veritable harem of women waiting around for his attention -- all on tap but none on top. Maybe, like many men who fear commitment, he can’t commit to “no” any more than he can commit to “yes”.
However, this much is certain: we all know how it feels to be wildly interested in a romantic prospect. When we are very excited about someone, we want to see them more than once a month, just as you want to see Adam more than once a month. The fact that he doesn’t appear to want or need more from you tells me all I need to know about his intentions, if not his motives.
But his motives are not really your concern. Your own emotional well-being is what matters. And being played like this can wreak havoc on your heart and mind. Your instincts were correct – this relationship is toxic, and leaving it is the right thing to do.
No matter what he says, there is absolutely nothing wrong with dating with an agenda. Think about it: we work hard for everything else we want in life. We strenuously pursue degrees, jobs, promotions, raises, financial security, and the homes of our dreams. Why wouldn’t we pursue the single most important thing in life, the one element that’s most essential for lifelong happiness and fulfillment: the right partner?
You are very wise to prioritize this and to realize you don’t have unlimited time to find it. It is absolutely appropriate not to waste time on men who don’t share your dream of marriage and a family.
Don’t second-guess yourself. Break it off and move on. If he tries to argue, don’t respond. Go on real dates with men who can’t wait to see you again and show it. You deserve nothing less, and nothing will make you forget Adam faster than opening your heart to someone who’s worthy of it.
May you find your bashert in short order and go forward with him into a fruitful and beautiful future!
Much love,
Ziva
(19) Anonymous, November 29, 2020 10:23 AM
What if a couple are dating more than a year? And the guy hasn't let the girlfriend see his family yet because the family was toxic and judgmental with prior girlfriend's. Nor committed to marriage but still shows consistency in the relationship. What should the girlfriend do in this case?
(18) Jean-Victor Côté, September 13, 2019 2:33 PM
That man may be fearful of his own future because of bad job prospects.
He may be working to improve his financial situation so he can commit to her.
(17) MESA, September 13, 2019 1:51 PM
Beth, your gut is right on the money. Ziva's advice was simply more word-y than mine. You have every right to date for marriage and if he doesn't want that, then you shouldn't be wasting your time. May Hashem help you find your bashert very soon.
(16) Anonymous, September 13, 2019 11:13 AM
Prof Joshua Berman
Great, beautiful story of your great-grandmother.wonderful.
(15) Anonymous, September 13, 2019 7:13 AM
Why is it so difficult to be assertive?
I wonder why we, women are often embarrassed to admit we are looking for the "one". After all, our biological clock comes with a deadline if we want to build a family. And even if not, even if we are on our second marriage and beyond the age of giving birth, we should not be played with at the cost of feeling foolish. But we do when our interlocutor treats us as "uncool" or "impatient". It's a question I am asking everyone. Thank you
MESA, September 13, 2019 1:45 PM
The modern-day radical feminist movement has left us with the idea that we're not allowed to want traditional marriage and commitment because that's old-fashioned and we're supposed to be able to do exactly what the men do. Thanks to this attitude, so many women are embarrassed to admit that they do want traditional marriage and commitment. I consider myself a feminist in part because I see no good reason to ignore that feminine part of us that wants marriage and family.
(14) Reuven Frank, September 12, 2019 7:22 PM
Good advice and MY advice.
Dear Ziva
Good advice and only TOO True.
Dear Beth
This is why finding an appropriate Shadchanit (female matchmaker), is important.
I don't mean a matchmaker like in "Fiddler". I mean someone modern whose purpose is to find a similarly minded man with some common traits.
You then date with ONE previously agreed upon condition. Namely, that you both understand that the purpose of your dating is to find out if you are marriage partners, or not.
Think about it, it's worth it. And, you'll never have to ask Ziva for dating advice again.
(Of course, you MAY need wedding advice but I think you'll be much happier asking for it.)
(13) Anonymous, September 12, 2019 12:24 PM
I was breadcrumbed
I went out with a man about ten years ago who did EXACTLY what the man in the article did. He strung me along and when confronted made every excuse in the book. "I am about to retire. Inhave my mom's house to empty. I don't want anything moved in MY house " Blah, blah, blah. He also was a hoarder. As much as it hurt, I finally told him to bug off. He wasn't serious.
(12) Steve Katz, September 11, 2019 9:28 PM
He's hedging his bets
It sounds to me as if he's dating multiple women at the same time and is trying to figure out which one to fully pursue (if any at all). After 4 months, my suggestion would be to cut the connection and find someone who will better and more frequently communicate.
(11) Rachel, September 11, 2019 4:37 PM
I respectfully think more info is needed
The writer doesn’t explain the man’s work. Sometimes there can be a a very busy time at work, and everything else has to be put aside. I agree no one should be strung along, but I also don’t believe in giving a potential mate an ultimatum. I think the writer should continue to go on dates with others. She should not pine away waiting for Adam. On the other hand, if he starts to make more of an effort I don’t think she should slam the door in his face. She has been honest with him about her wish to find a relationship that will lead to marriage. Finally, I don’t know if in her circle this is prohibited, but why doesn’t she take the initiative to ask him to join her for a date or at least a get-together with other people? If her shul is having a special program before Rosh Hashana, let him know she plans to go and then go afterward for coffee. If they have a mutual friend who can invite them as well as others to get together for a potluck, have the friend extend the invitation. If it’s meant to be, seeing more of each other without the pressure of a formal date may help. And if not, they move on naturally, without drama and acrimony.
Anonymous, September 12, 2019 12:28 PM
Dump Him!
I wholeheartedly disagree with you. He lacks the maturity, and there is a lack of consideration for her feelings. He is only thinking of himself. She deserves better.
(10) Zipora Midrony, September 10, 2019 6:40 PM
Such a beautiful article well written and so strue
Such a beautiful article well written and so strue
(9) Anonymous, September 10, 2019 6:19 PM
This is also called "love kernels" and is not acceptable.
(8) Anonymous, September 10, 2019 4:48 PM
Excellent advice!
Excellent advice!
(7) Leah bleiberg, September 10, 2019 4:39 PM
Great response
Thank you for all the updated vocabulary to clarify some of the terrible behaviors that go on in dating. Your answer was right on target and kudos to you for giving her the clarity she needs.
(6) OK, September 8, 2019 9:04 PM
Another great response from Ziva that hits the nail right on the head!
Another great response! We need more of these typs of articles that tell the truth as it is! Kol Hakavod!
(5) Anonymous, September 8, 2019 8:49 PM
YOU ROCK ZIVA - YOU ARE 100%
in a class geared for women only given by a man...he stated point blank..
"WOMEN, SAY WHAT YOU FEEL AND BE HONEST ABOUT YOUR DESIRE TO GET MARRIED, THE MEN WHO STAY ARE ON THE SAME PAGE, THE ONES THAT DONE WONT BE AND NEVER WILL BE AND BETTER THEY RUN AWAY RIGHT AWAY NOW THEN WASTE SO MUCH OF YOUR TIME"
Ziva your advice is perfect and impeccable.
(4) cindy, September 8, 2019 8:14 PM
just enough to keep you coming back for more
This happened to me, except the guy strung me along for 3 months!! You say, how can you allow this to go on for so long? But you can be sure there were always good excuses and promises he'd take me out the following week. And when I wouldn't hear from him for 1-1/2 weeks and thinking I was dumped, he'd suddenly call and be so attentive with another promise for the following week. I tried to stop this madness after 6 weeks but he pleaded and begged me to give him a chance. And in the end, after 3 months, I made it clear I was done. No more phone calls when youre conveniently on the road and want phone company. Withdrawa symptoms are severe from someone like that bc they give and withdraw and when they show up, they are beyond attentive and it does something. chemically to hook you. And int he end, he is making fun of m "Look she's counting!" as if I am in the wrong for being aware hes stringing me along for 3 months. I know bc Purim to Pesach is 1 month and then one and half months to Shavuos. Too bad I wasted anytime on that guy (stolen time and emotions), and if I had Ziva around to consult with at the time, you can be sure I wouldn't have. Now I have a name for that behavior. Dating is getting to know someone, and this guy was showing his selfish , self-centered side. Wanting to feel he was desired and wanted with no regard for the other. Better to know before you get married and are locked in. Good riddance. And indeed, once he knew I wasn't tolerating bad behavior, he showed another side and was real nasty and denigrating. This was just an important clue to what was at core underneath and an ugly character. G-d bless Ziva for all her guidance.
(3) A Jerusalemite Man, September 8, 2019 6:38 PM
Men get breadcrumbed too.
It can happen to men too. I recently dated a woman for around a month and the same thing happened. After realizing what was happening, I was direct with her about it and told her I needed some clarity from her as to what her intentions are. In the end, we went out one more time and I realized it wasn't the right fit. It didn't feel like we were mutually looking to share experiences together and want to genuinely learn more about each other. Next. :)
(2) Anonymous, September 8, 2019 4:53 PM
Great article
I am woman whom dated in the secular world for two decades and then started becoming baales Teshuva and dated in the orthodox religious way with modesty rules and no touching til marriage. I only dated for a one to three month period to see if marriage would happen and then if not went on to next. I did get married this way and happy I didn’t waste time dating in secular dating. I lost two decades of my life dating in secular way.
(1) Anonymous, September 8, 2019 4:18 PM
Great column!
Ziva gives clear advice and knows all the modern terms. I hope to see more articles by her!