I'm approaching my 18th anniversary and I feel like my marriage is dead. It's like the only conversations we have are about the kids. We don't fight, we're just growing apart. What scares me most is if a man approached me, would I have the strength to say no?? I am not sure. How do i find someone to confide in that is safe??

This is the main reason I have been separated for almost 3 years now and will most likely end in divorce. I can tell my (soon to be ex)wife that I need to be a priority to her until I am blue in the face. She always comes back with the argument that they're just kids. I never said neglect them, don't take care of them, or stop loving them... all I want is to be a priority. We just went back and forth with this argument all night tonight which led me to this article, amongst others that support the same notion.

Devorah, I didn't say the words 'passionless marriage'. I stated that the passion wasn't between the man and woman (set of parents). The passion in the marriage I spoke about is manifested toward raising children instead of passion (focus) on the marriage itself. I guess that if a couple doesn't have a passionate focus on the marriage itself -- - - then your words 'Passionless Marriage' could apply to that union. In the article the author writes that husband and wife should have times of love and affection for one another. That they need to be together in times that are not focused on the kids. I also think that is a good idea. I also think that the marriage is the holy union and it should be priority over children. Whatever works for the husband and wife to stay committed seems to be the best for the children of that union. This quote from the article is nice - - -"" If you want to put a huge smile on your young child's face, give your spouse a big hug and kiss right in front of her. She'll explode with delight and then try to squeeze her way in to be a part of the loving gesture"""- - -. I think that's how our kids learn about love, by observing moments of tenderness and joy between loving parents.

It sounds like you are trying to describe a typical couple, but haven't actually observed any in their own settings. There are many, many ways of showing love, and growing love like a planned garden rather than just "falling" into it. A core tenet of Judaism is the necessity for the COMBINED strength created by 2 souls joined in marriage. The relationship itself is something holy, something more than the 2 people. The role of the relationship between a husband and wife is greatly emphasized in Jewish writings and teachings. Yes, we tend to have distinct roles in marriage and parenting. But that in no way means they are separate. For us, and many happily married people, if you spend significant time with them and observe very, very closely, you will see plenty of evidence of a true partnership - not just an alliance for the sake of having children. There are so many ways to say "I love you" without words or touch, but you have to be sensitized to see it. My kids may not be surrounded by PDAs, but they are enveloped by an atmosphere of love.

My husband and I have always worked on making sure we still remember that we were originally a couple. Its good to be reminded of ways to enhance our relationship, thus making us better parents. Rebbetzin Tziporah Heller continues the discussion on marriages when she addresses a question about having a spiritual marriage in her Q&A series at Naaleh.com. This question was in the first class on Rebbetzin's Perspective 2. Its really inspiring and compliments this article very nicely.

One thing I do agree with is that a lot of kids today are too pampered, catered to, and spoiled because their mother focus every drop of mental, emotional, and spiritual and mental energy satisfying their childrens' every immediate need at the snap of their little fingers; this leads to selfish, impatient, and narcissistic children. While I do believe that marriage and children should be of primary importance, I also believe that it is important for BOTH parents to have an outlet outside of the home, whether it be a part-time job, volunteer work, exercise, a hobby, etc so that the mother can have adult interaction and replenish her mental, emotional, and spiritual resources. It is, in my opinion, healthy for children to hear "you need to wait 10 minutes, mommy is doing something" and to give children a few age-appropriate chores to teach them independence and responsibility ie, setting the table, clearing dishes from the table, making their own beds, feeding the pet, folding laundry, etc. The goal of a parent is to raise a self sufficient adult and there is no reason why the parents should have to 24/7-365 be slaves to their children--the royalty. The most well adjusted people I know are those whose parents instilled in them self restraint, responsibility, and fostered independence.

Some people marry only for the reason of having children. That is their focus. They didn't marry with a passion for each other. Man works and supports a home where the wife can live and raise their children. He just does not need anything more in the way of partnering from her. She in turn is happy to be a mother and is totally devoted to that role. It works for them. Not sure how the children thrive with a passionless set of parents who nonetheless respect each others roles in child parenting. For a couple who fell in love and deeply have close feelings about one another is another kind of family. When the children are born the husband wife role changes a bit. Isn't the point to raise, healthy and independent children? It is hard to be objective when you aren't sure whose needs come first you or the kids. The loving marriage is harder to figure out. We TEACH them toilet training, how to bathe, how to eat, we send them to school to be taught lessons, how to work and be law abiding citizens. We SHOW them how to love, and be kind, and be honest.

Unfortunately, this message has failed to be communicated to many modern day women who choose their children over their husbands. The initial and most important relationship is the one between husband and wife. Your child wont remember that extra dance or karate lesson that came at the expense of family time or made mom so tired that she had no time for dad. My marriage failed because my wife chose to devote herself exclusively to my two adopted children. She made sure they had the best of everything. Dance, karate, batting lessons...you name it. The result was there was no time for me. She was either too tired or just plain busy to devote the needed attention to the marriage. After repeated attempts to bring this to her attention, I too disengaged. Sadly, we are apart now after 17 years of marriage. We both clearly have a part in it but the end result is that my soulmate is gone. I am angry, resentful and feel like my life is empty. Every attempt at reconciliation has failed because the children, in her mind, must always come first. I am so saddened by all of this but cannot go back to a marriage where I felt ignored and neglected. I miss my soulmate and best friend terribly. I hope newly married couples will take heed from this article before their marriage suffers the same fate as mine. :(

I remember when I became engaged my mother told me to always put my husband above my children because when the kids are grown and out of the house we will still be together. My 3 children are all grown and out of the house for many years and my husband and I are still behaving as if we are on our honeymoon.

just a comment on one point; Kids can draw from the love between their parents without demonstrative shows, which sometimes only scare the kids. the parent's love is like a pumping heart, that's power and warmth is felt even when the heart itself is hidden

What a great, applicable article. I know first-hand the lonliness that results when the husband is not, never has been, and probably never will be first in his wife's life because the children always come first. It creates a very sad, lonely existence. Children can be very demanding when small and young, and especially as teens; however, it is smothering to have to raise such children alone.

amazing...this is so long overdue and well said. conventional wisdom is that parents must be first for the kids, however that only leads to a corrupted example of marriage for children to have in their subconscious. i.e. parents acting like strangers and sometimes enemies. bad "seeds" make for "weeds" in the future. Rabbi-Dr is right on and just ask the kids of divorce what they want most - parents that love each other not more videos or chuck-e-cheese

Sadly, too many people, even educated ones do not understand or implement making their spouse and the marriage first, and moving aside whatever may potentially conflict.

Wow, I don't know where to start. But some quick comments. Tellingly you speak about your great relationship with your kids and grand kids, no mention about your relationship with your wife. You seem to feel you proved your point by pointing at your parents' ability to stay together, again no mention about their happiness or the fact that they raised a son who feels immature people focus on their marriage. I don't think you understand what marriage is. Marriage is the furthest thing from selfishness. A successful marriage involves learning how to be selfless and only wanting to give to another, become one with another and making the needs of another come before your own. Isn't this the most important message to give to children? Before the need for "discipline". Of course if a marriage involves "what can I get out of this" "How can I have my emotional needs taken care of", yes, it would be selfish to occupy yourself with that, at the expense of your children

The Talmud speaks about a challenging marrigae, and states that the bottom line for a man to stay in a marrige is "she raises our children and saves us from sin" - in that order.

If there isn't a strong bond between 2 parents, they cannot be a strong family (with their child or children.) This takes work, as the article states. Taking time out for a "date" with my husband on a Sunday often does make me feel guilty, but after reading this article, I feel that it is the right thing to do even if my son has to stay with a babysitter. I'm going to see if my family might like to try the idea mentioned in the article of each adding on to a story that one of us starts. Dancing, cooking, swimming, and complimenting one another all work well for our family as well. I'll try to do these things more often with my family. Thanks for the great article!

Your article reminded me of a comment a friend had made many years ago that shocked me. She said, she felt that without the children to occupy her time and her husband's, they would have nothing to talk about. She was wondering what would happen when the children left home. I was so worried to hear this, about the quality of her relationship and his to her. It seemed they were using the children as a kind of buffer to prevent closeness and that perhaps this was taking on a life of its own. Yes, parents need to spend time together, and to rediscover each other, because there can be too much time spent with children, and then distance is created that needs a bridge, which is to be together without the children, to take time for each other. A truly wise article with many ramifications!

Children come first. They are demanding at a young age and learn from their parents who interact with them. My wife and I have 3 wonderful children, all married, and all successful. We have a great relationship with them and our 8 grandchildren. We did a lot together and my wife and I understood that our personal emotional needs were secondary. We had an understanding before marriage. You get one shot to raise children and focussing on your marriage instead of meeting your children's needs will be interpreted the wrong way as being selfish. Children need support and discipline and gradual freedom to develop their personality and skills. My parents never focussed on their marriage and stayed together until my father died. Parents need to earn money and this effort plus raising children consumes 24 hours of each day. Immature people need to focus on their marriage. Mature people have an understanding that transcends the need to visibly show affection and focus on themselves.

Thank you for this amazing little article. You gave me a smile and a feeling like I want to try some of your good advice, if not now then maybe in a year or so. I especially love the dinner idea- foreign countries. Great article!