The Ootchy-Kootchy Rule

I think Emuna's mistake here was failing to differentiate between smaller PDA's, such as holding hands, vs. extreme PDA's that isn't really appropriate for public view. Despite my parents LACK of affection, I was inspired by my friends who did show affection. My wonderful husband still has no qualms about holding my hand in public. Yes, there are PDA's out there that are not appropriate, but Emuna simply made the mistake of not differentiating.

Dated and married a man who did a lot of this in public, and I hated it because it was so disrespectful....it got more and more out of control as did his drinking behavior. Forced to leave him due to more abuse..he I beleive is and was a sociopath, with deep personality disorders . It was the most difficult relationship I have ever been in. There are many many out there like this, as proven to me by my last two experiences with men who were frauds and sex criminals as well. They ly in wait for their victims and they can't get your co-operation they will force you via date rape drugs, alcohol, or pure force. Every day one has to be very careful who you are associating with....use good judgement and run at the hint of impropriety....I mean RUN!

"Why couples who show the most public affection are more likely to divorce" - this is a statement that is NOT supported by the study you cite, it simply says the ideas of romance come in the way. But that might be simply the expectations the couple has from another, not their public affection. I found this article overly simplistic- look at the other comments here who state that their are married for more than 27/40 years AND show affection in public!

As usual, well thought out and well written! I always love reading Mrs. Braverman's articles!

There is nothing more loving than a husband taking his wifes hand walking in the park, or on the street, or navigating through a party....or an arm around each other on a cold day. A peck on the cheek or on the lips in public is a sign of affection, but not an improper public display. There is also nothing worse or more Barnum and Bailey Circus than a public proposal, the flash of a large surprise birthday party, the bestowing of expensive gifts to be seen in public. Those things are about the giver, look at me and what I am doing and not about the receiver, certainly not love and affection for one another. Some women and men simply don't know the difference.

The key here is AFFECTION. The warmth of the human touch is priceless. It is also a basic human need. To withhold this human need under any guise is sacrilege. You offend mankind counseling against displays of affection between loving family members. Obviously you are acting out -- dare I say -- lashing out at others who you perceive as getting the kind of attention you so desperately seek.

I have been married for 41 years to the same women. Every time I go to the nursing home to see her, I greet her with one kiss on the lips, and later, when I leave I do the same. I do not kiss her publicly to impress the people around me. I do it because I want to remind her that she is the most special person in my life and that I love her so much.

I strongly disagree with your conjecture. My husband and I have been married for 27 years. We are ver happy together, and we greatly enjoy holding hands , or walking arm in arm. Likewise, we often kiss in public. We do not do it because we are in public, but simply because that is usually where we say hello and goodbye to one another- because of work.

I disagree with this article completely. One in three marriages end in divorce the last I heard and it used to be one in two. I am certain to generalize the reasons for so many divorces is completely off. You cannot guess what happens between two people behind closed doors just because of what you see in public. There may be statistics but every marriage has its own dynamic and reasons for failing. This article falls short of proof. My marriage ended for other reasons none of which had to do with lack of or presence of pda's.

i think that PDA is a good idea and haelthy for marrige

I have been married to my wife (the only one) for 47 yrs. We have had three children and my youngest daughter was born with out a hip, (but God healed her instantly).I've been shot at (more than once) while on the Job. I was hit by a car while on duty and my wife was told by the doctor (in so many words) that I wouldn't live (I was back to work within a year). Through it all, my wife stayed by my side and, Yes, we hold hands in public and even occasionally Kiss in public. We also laugh a lot together. We have had our fights. We have bad days as well as good, that includes doctor and dentist bills, car and house repairs and there are times when you wake-up in the morning and see who's sleeping along side of you and you think you must have been on drugs or drunk when you married him or her. When love is based on a feeling your in trouble. LOVE IS A CHOICE! You choose to love him or her and that word "love" in the bible is "Agape" which means "To seek his or her's highest good. The result is that the feeling comes as a fruit of your decision. It is also very important to dump a lot of romance into your marriage. To remember your wife (or husband) on the "non-birthdays or special occassions with a letter, card, or a weekly date night. I enjoy my wife in pubic as well as in private. I know that we arn't special and we're no different that anyone else but public affection does not have to be putting on a show for anyone but just enjoying each other in or out of the public eye.

I read a study that indicated that couples who called each other by pet names tended to stay together longer. I think the special nickname is a sign of affection and even intimacy that has a positive psychological effect. I was saddened when my wife stopped calling me by her pet name for me and I think it went hand in hand with a distance between us. Fortunately, once again she calls me by that pet name and it makes my day and gives me a feeling I am special to her. I had a couple of pet names for her and mostly continue to call her by one of those - and more likely to do so the happier I am with our relationship ... so I think there is a correlation. Of course sugary sweet insincere pet names are likely counter productive and superficial.

Excellent article. Another interesting aspect of keeping PDA's nil is that if there should be a divorcing couple; divorced couple; a widow or a single person is search of a special someone in the immediate area if may make them feel sad. Ok, so that may be most of the continent, yet it all focuses on the issue of sensitivity towards others' feelings.

have to say I found this article slightly offensive. My husband and I have been married for over 5 yrs and are very much in love..... before marriage we held hands in public but that was all.... after marriage we commonly show PDA. I have found that those who have G-d as the head and are madly in love will show PDA more often... do we get crude in our PDA? No, a kiss, a hug, hand holding, his arm around my waist, him slapping my backside sometime *blush*... do we do it for those around us? No we do it so the other knows that we have eyes only for them and that no matter what is around us we want all to know the other is the love of our life. It is not fantasy or a romance novel mindset. We know the hardship of "dirty diapers, unpaid bills, and leaky faucets" but showing our love to each other in a tasteful manner is what makes those things bearable. Also, a little tasteful PDA keeps your life exciting and that is not a bad thing :) ~SM

I think the author has stated it perfectly; the greatest and truest expression of a couple's love belongs to the couple, not the world. It doesn't stop them from being affectionate in public, but it their public displays are as good as it gets, how sad is that?

You need a basis of passion for couples to put up with each other's foibles. My 1st marriage of 20 years ended because frankly she didn't have any romantic connection to me whatsoever. When the tech economy tanked in 2001 there was no 'glue' to hold it together ... even with 3 children ranging from 6 to 18 years old at the time. She spent the last year of the marriage holed up in the bedroom reading romance novels. Clearly she yearned for romance in her life, just not from me. Although I give her credit for trying during our reconciliations. My 2nd (common law) marriage has withstood far greater crises and disappointments because the passion makes it wonderful no matter what happened.

It is the old problem of throwing the baby out with the bath water. I totally accept that as Torah Jews we must behave within halachic strictures,That being said, public effection in public, if sincere is not wrong.

While some couples who show affection in public seem to do it more for the benefit of others, I know plenty of couple married for many years in deeply committed relationships who hold hands or walk arm in arm in public and I think its is wonderful! For these couples It's not a show at all, but a sign of true and sincere affection for one another. Emuna, you have painted this subject with too broad of a brush. Trying to justify your views regarding modesty or trying to justify the views of Orthodox Judaism with regard to modesty with a false argument as you have presented will simply lead to people giving less credence to your future columns. If you want to promote the Orthodox view of modesty, that's fine. But do it in a reasonable and non prejudicial fashion without extreme or nonsensical declarations such as "couples who display affection in public are more likely to divorce". Respectfully submitted, Barak F, M.D.

This comment is 100%right!

Good article, and I know where you're coming from as I have an extremely frum daughter & son-in-law who do not consider any form of PDA to be snius. BUT I don't agree about the unsuitabilty of holding hands or using pet names. (extreme PDAs excluded!) My husband & I have been married, Baruch Hashem, for 49-1/2 years! We always use our pet name for each other, and hold hands often - in a movie theatre or ocassionally walking in the street. It's an unspoken way of saying I love you! I don't believe that romance belongs only in the home. We love each other wherever we are!

In my opinion Mrs. Braverman is a prude and envious of public displays of affection. Feelings of love are not place specific, but should be discrete such as holding hands, an arm around the other, a special smile in a public setting; maybe OMG a liitle peck on the cheek. Relating divorce to PDA is ridiculous. I think the author should re-examine her viewpoint.

With all respect to your husband, and for sure not as misleading as confusing the Rambam with Ramban The phrase describing romance at its most base physical only level is not ootchy kootchy.The correct wording is hootchie cootchie from the great Willie Dixon song"I'm your Hoochie Coochie Man" I strongly suggest any blues enthusiaists google you tube to hear Muddy Waters version of this classic. As it relates to your article readers/listeners can draw their own conclusions as to if we were created to share this gift publicly, or even in private with many, or is it a gift to be reserved for a single private intimate relationship?

Until I became religious and understood the Jewish perspective on this issue, I thought maybe there was something wrong or repressed about me because I was instinctively reluctant to engage in much PDA with girlfriends. My parents' PDAs were rare, but at affection at home was generous between them. Though not observant, they knew that physical affection is special and best reserved for private time and space. It turns out that I had picked up from them an inherent sense of modesty that is now for me a manifestation of a desire for holiness.

The whole PDA problem is valid, the superficiality of performance love is real.But the sarcasm a/b those whose love overflows into the public sector is uncalled for and a little inaccurate. Romance too has its time and place, and for better or worse, people care a/b their images, and its nice to feel that others (especially those that care a/b u) can see judiciously, that you're happy in your marriage.

I remember when some of our more secular friends and family was almost expecting a certain amount of PDA and thought that we perhaps we weren't attracted to one another when we failed to oblige. Nothing could be further from the truth, and something is to be said for keeping private things PRIVATE.

I think the author has some good points, but it should be noted that we are human beings who require attention and emotion, and sometimes you just don't want to have to wait 6 hours for a peck on the cheek until you get home from wherever you happened to be 'in public'...I think its great to have discipline and create a 'public/private' barrier/boarder for the relationship, but if we are so adament about being 'stiffs' in the public realm and not even holding hands when we want to connect with someone, we are doomed to become cold hearted and overly rational - too much head, too little heart.

I think you're mostly right, but I would add the caveat that it's different for newlyweds. I remember as a newlywed going a little overboard with the PDA, but I do think that's perfectly normal. After all, newly married couples are insecure in the new relationship and do have that need to announce their love to the world; they also haven't been hit with reality just yet. But as life happens and the shiny newness goes away, they do start being less nauseating. My husband and I, like everyone else, eventually landed back on earth, and came to appreciate privacy, though we do still sometimes hold hands and call each other "hon" in public. Basically, I think your premise is correct, but if it's a newlywed couple doing the oochie koochie, give them a chance to return to earth before assuming they are unhealthily insecure.

but I disagree with "put romance back on the fiction shelf". The Rabbis explain the reason for the laws of nidda are "k'dai l'chavev isha l'bbala". The laws of family purity are all about bringing romance back into the marriage, month after month after month! It's about the wife becoming that mystery woman, the woman you're forbidden to touch, for half of your married life- and then reuinting: check out the romance!

The period of niddah/menstruation may be about returning romance to a marriage each month, but it's also about forcing a couple to learn to display their love & caring for one another without touch, either in public or private. I knew a woman who was the wife of a chabad rabbi. When she was giving birth, her husband was with her, but after a certain point, was halachically forbidden to touch her. The nurse who was there with them later said she had never seen a couple display such love to each other. And it was without touching, & most likely, without pet names.