Marrying a Convert

Thank you for this wonderful article

Rabbi Akiva and Rus were exceptional. You have 'yichus' so you say. Many do not have the support system that allows their children to marry gayrim. I know of a day school graduate who is now frei because she was rejected in shidduch after shidduch because of her birth. I would have (probably) been ballistic if my son wanted to marry a gioris. It would have been a challenge for his children. In my not-so-advanced stage of geriatrics, I have been out with Jews by choice. I am able to do so because the women I date are past child-bearing age. This is so far from simple and complicates life, which is a challenge. Not so pashut.

I would marry a proper ger.

If the Avos, the Shevatim (the 12 sons of Yaakov), Moshe, Yehoshua, Calev, Boaz, Dovid & Shlomo - among the greatest Tzadikim & Jewish leaders - all married converts, aside from the fact that most of us Jews are descendants from several of these converts, then I think it pretty much says it all. BTW, Avraham Avinu, as the first Jew, was himself a convert...

I thank you Rabbi Blech for your deeply inspiring reminder to us born Jews. I am also someone that fell in love with someone who has chosen to be a Jew. Being so close to someone that made this choice is of course amazingly personally inspiring. For those that have not come quite so cloes it can be, without thought, an underlying cause for anxiety. Articles like yours will go far in helping us all consider, affirmatively decide, and not just hesitantly accept (hoping it doesn't visit our lives) that which Hashem has so clearly commanded.

Biology; such a successful union broadens the gene pool.

I'm a convert and have been married 37 years to my husband. I'm much more observant than my husband--so much so that he says he married his mother and grandmother combined LOL!

Congrats to this article!! Hats off in front of the author! As a matter of fact personally speaking& being a convert to Judaism I must say that we need more article about converts! On the other hand what I have learned throughout my journey to Judaism is that converting is not a chapter about “ my fiancee, my future husband, wife” , actually is a journey about my “ neshama yehudi”, how do I feel about, its not my mother, nor my father, neither my boyfriends sister, it’s strictly a business of my Godly soul, a relationship in between me and Hashem, and a true understanding that Judaism is a lifelong learning, a strong commitment that won’t grow over night, but takes time, and patience!

I converted 28 years ago and my wife 25 years ago. We have been married 20 years, bli ayin hara. We live amongst the so-called ultra-orthodox communities in Jerusalem. We have learned and have realized that we will never be truly accepted by these communties. Thank G-d, this has forced us to STRENGTHEN our relationship with G-d.

Hi I was very touched by your article! כל הכבוד! First time I read an article where someone doesn't just writes on the virtues of converts, but would have a heart attack if son married one! Articles like yours are very necessary! I have friends who converted, married and are extremely frum and wonderful. However, it took them eight years to marry their daughters! This is chillul Hashem and articles like yours work to stop this! May we deserve Machiah soon! Blessings, Nicole

A beautiful article. Shalom, shalom.

As much as we should value converts, people should be wary of converts as some might convert just to manipulate a guy into staying with them even when the guy does not want to.

That is very rarely true, and does not warrant a comment at all. Do you know how hard it is to become an Orthodox convert??

This is why this article had to be written. Do you know just how hard it is to convert Orthodox? It takes years and years of rejection after rejection to convert. It is truly only something the most sincere converts can go through. Yet, here you are, saying that someone goes through all kinds of rejection and humiliation, even, to MANIPULATE another? In the words of a famous goyish lady: "Ain't nobody got time for that!"

I'd like to thank you for your exquisite commentary on accepting converts! It is a subject that needs reminding every now and then as some consider themselves too pious and way above any converts as if they don't have a true heart for Judaism. Thank you for your historical notes quoting prominent figures in Jewish history! May those who think they are superior because they were born to Jewish parents remember that they did not have to go through the life decisions that converts go through in "choosing to be Jewish."

This deeply moved me because I am a Convert. I took the name Ruth as many converts do, because I have always felt that Ruth's words to her mother-in-law are some of the most beautiful I have ever read..... and, of course without the Moabite convert Ruth, we wouldn't have had a Jewish King David or King Soloman! If people don't appear to like the idea of converts, I comfort myself that only G-d knows what is REALLY inside a human heart...AND also the fact that in a dusty drawer somewhere in my house is a certificate, certified by 3 Rabbis that I am 'a Proselyte of Righteousness' Now guys...there aren't many that can say that!!

Dear sister, I'm also a fellow ger, Rus is my middle name on my conversion certificate. Totally relate to what you said, and I bet so much more. Wish we had met! Be well, kesiva vchasima tova.

An Orthodox Rabbi once told me that the person who converts does not do so on his own. Hashem has actually chosen this person, man or woman or child, to convert because he is wanted and needed in the Jewish community. I think this is a beautiful thing, and have shared this with many converts. They always appreciate it.

I wholeheartedly agree with your comment! It's hard business to convert, but we do it out of sheer freewill.

Rabbi Blech is correct, of course, and his examples are right on point. Sadly, gossip (which is a form of loshan hora), is too tempting for many people to resist, and they will sometimes attack even the worthiest among us.

Just the word itself causes division (isn't that we are for to heal?... Spoken in-depth.... No question.

Unfortunately, Rabbi, a lot of people reading this article and many others think that you are including reform converts in what you're giving your blessing. It is not the same thing! Very big problem in the world. Thanks!

I don't understand what you are saying with your comment. I would much rather undergo an Orthodox Conversion, but the very big problem I see is that it is much too difficult to do so. This is very sad. I do not mean to disparage the reform movement. However; if you want converts to be welcome then truly welcome them to Orthodox Judaism! Don't hold souls hostage because it is easier to convert reform. Look within and make changes to practice so that converting Orthodox isn't such a difficult process. Thank you.

It's supposed to be a difficult process - it's designed that way. We are not a proselytizing religion; we are not looking or asking for people to join. If someone shows - through much hard work, effort and persistence - that they are genuinely sincere in wanting to join our nation, with all of the hardships, persecutions, rules and ways of living that it entails, then we embrace them (and if you're in a community that isn't doing the embracing, move - there are many of them out there that do). If a person would like to just "poof" become Jewish, for whatever their reasons and motivations, then, no, our door is not open. That does not mean that we don't respect them as a human being, or think badly of them. Every non-Jew has 7 commandments to fulfill and live by. If the Orthodox conversion process is too difficult (and I do not write that in a patronizing tone; I do know that it is a truly difficult process, in many different ways), then surely 606 extra commandments will also be too difficult, and there is, quite honestly, no reason or obligation for a person to take that upon themselves. Additionally, something you work for is commensurately more precious to a person - easy come, easy go, and if someone truly makes the commitment to Torah and mitzvos and "goes," then the consequences (spiritually) of that are vast. So, yes, better to leave the process as is. There is a reason why that one is the universally accepted one...

It's precisely because non-Jews also have a valuable role that we do not readily accept converts.

Reform converts believe that they are Jewish. Many likely do not even know the halachic definition of a Jew according to Orthodox halacha. So what should the response be ? First it seems to me that non Orthodox Rabbis have an obligation to let perspective converts know that in order to be married by a rabbi in Israel, or considered a Jew according to Orthodox Jews that they would need an approved Orthodox conversion. It seems to me that anyone converted outside of Orthodoxy should be treated sensitively and respectfully, but told they would need to undergo an accepted Orthodox conversion to become Jewish according in order to be recognized as such by all rabbinic authorities. The fact that they already underwent some kind of conversion is at least a signal that they want to be Jewish, and I am guessing they should be embraced, instead of needing to start from scratch. No easy answer as many of those converting who are motivated by a desire to marry a Jew would not be willing to commit to even a basic Orthodox life style. The result is the Jew involved may move further away from his /her religion. If the children are halachicly Jewish(a Jewsih mother) they may not even know it and receive know Jewish education.

Thank you for this beautiful article! May the people of Hashem be welcomed in with humility and not predjudice!

Ashkenazim need to be proud of their convert past, and they need to recognize that they too descend from converts. Humility is Key in our Judaism.

The problem with the Ashkenazi community is that they forget about their past as well. Many Ashkenazi's carry European last names, but they do not sound Middle Eastern. Their genetic makeup is more European than Middle Eastern. I am myself Jewish and I see the problem when I attend Ashkenazim communities in that they look to Nordic, or Anglo and I remind them that their family members converted to Judaism. Of course they get mad at me because the Jews who lived in Europe unfortunately intermarried with the Europeans which should have never happened unless conversion took place. So if we had to dig this issue deeper most Ashkenazim have family members who converted to Judaism some point in history, and in effect also changed our genetic make up! Most people think that Jews are all White, but in effect we are not! We tend to be shorter, black hair, and tan skin that is our original middle eastern characteristics! I encourage Rabbi Blech to dig this issue deeper because this is a case of arrogance in part of the Ashkenazi community! We as a Jewish people need to humble ourselves, and reminding ourselves of the past that we also had family members who converted to Judaism in the past! Unfortunately, many Jews are stuck with the idea that "White" is better and your last name does not sound to Jewish! If my last name Barajas does not sound to Jewish neither does Altman, or Goldberg, or Blech (sorry rabbi), Stein, Zaklos, Friedman, Moskovitz etc. Lets look at our past and see if we also come from converts. We are being to arrogant with our Judaism!

This fellow is forgetting all the rape that took place over the centuries in Ashkenazi Europe. That is a much more major source of "local" characteristics in Ashkenazi Jews. And maybe one reason continuity of Judaism is defined by the female line.

We Jewish family and we love our Jewish people. God bless my people

For certain the Torah was well aware that those joining Am Yisrael would oftenface difficulties as it sadly is difficult for people to fully accept those who were once "outsiders". On Passover we humbly state we are all descended from idolaters but day to day its a challenge to remember. Glad all worked out we for the couple in your article.

For me, the best part of Rabbi Blech's article is the last part where he confides that his own son married a convert.
It's all very nice and well on behalf of any proeminent Rabbi to preach about loving the convert but if he himself isn't ready to allow his own very son to do so, then all the talk is worthless.
Having such a daughter-in-law the ultimate litmus test!
Thank you Rabbi Blech for yet another brilliant analysis.

Whole-heartedly agree. It is so touching to know he is living his Vort... There are people who tell you they love you, then there are people who actually love you.

I'm an Orthodox convert and can only agree. You know how many times matchmakers said they don't work with converts because it's too difficult, race is an issue, blah, blah, blah. It's amazing how the same people who keep reminding converts of their past and that they're no longer goyim sometimes have a problem marrying these same people. Sad.

Part of the reason people don't want to marry female converts is that they might have engaged in secular-style dating before they became frum and a lot of frum guys have an issue with that, even if they themselves are baal teshuvas and their past isn't so squeaky clean.

People don't love and respect converts. How many of us are alone on Shabbos or Yom tov? How many of us get asked stupid or personal questions by complete strangers and are constantly reminded of the fact that we're converts? How many of us are spoken down to in a condescending manner as if we just started learning about Judaism when we've been frum for years? How many of us have our kashrus/shmirat halacha questioned even when we're frummer than most? How many of us get turned down in shidduchim just because we're converts? (And those who are interested in us usually have real mental, behavioural or social issues... )

Rabbi, I wish I felt more inspired by your response. Unfortunately, I feel so dead in my Yiddishkeit because of what I have gone through. I used to wonder why geirim go off the derech - now I understand. You turn your life upside down trying to do the right thing, and you suffer immense isolation, humiliation and pain in return. It's the worst feeling.

The things you discuss having suffered are in absolute contradiction to both The Torah and the Rabbi's express teachings.
Sadly, Jews -- whether born Jews or Jews by choice -- are far from perfect human beings, and often have no knowledge of the relevant halachot (and proper ethical behavior).
Hopefully, this article will help. The fact that it's gone viral (almost 2,000 shares on Facebook alone) shows that it hit a nerve.
Plus next time a convert's significant other is questioned by his parents or friends, he can show them this article. A convert is more than good enough for Rabbi Blech, but not good enough for you????

I am sorry to read that... I am in the process of converting to Orthodox Judaism. I live in Manchester. I was with my partner 12 years and we both wanted to convert but unfortunately he became alcoholic without any willingness to change... When I go to the Shul I just can't wait but when the service is finished, I always go back to home without company, completely lonely... It's really hard to describe that loneliness...

That's almost funny because a convert is automatically 100% pure.

In my understanding of the subject of converts we are supposed to "love the convert" and "forget that they are not born Jewish", in other words I believe that once a person converts we are not supposed to be going around talking "about the convert", but rather "about the Jewish person". "Conversion sealed and not reopened for discussion" unless brought up "by the Jewish person", not by others.

I especially appreciate your ending. I am married for 17 years to a wonderful person who is also a Jew by Choice (I love that expression, never heard it before). I got the same flak from my family and friends when I was dating. I also called my rabbi to discuss it. He, too, encouraged me to continue my relationship with my husband. BUT, when I asked him if he'd allow his daughters to marry a convert, he reluctantly admitted that he would not. So thank you for your article. I really appreciate it!

Dear Rabbi Blech - a BIG todah rabah for soothing another wounded soul with your kind words of acceptance!
Yes, it is indeed very sad, but true and hurtful that converts are often not very well accepted. Yes, outwardly we are apparently "loved", but we very well pick-up on where we are treated differently, or I have even overheard less than favorable comments when they think I'm out of hearing distance by the same ones who apparently loves us so much!
There are two quotes from Albert Einstein that always stays with me, the first is when he said:
“I'm sorry I was born a Jew, because it deprived me of the privilege of CHOOSING to be a Jew.”
As Rabbi Blech and several commentors have said, often times converts takes mitzvos MUCH more seriously, diving into it whole heartedly and making no compromises - for which we are then often judged by those who grew up in it and who are much more "relaxed" or casual about it. But we chose to be Jews!

Ha'navi Yeshayahu 56:3 says "And let not the son of the foreigner who has joined himself to Hashem speak, saying, "Hashem has certainly separated me from His people"... :6 Also the sons of the foreigner who join themselves to Hashem, to serve Him, and to love the name of Hashem, to be His servants, all who guard the Shabbat, and not profane it, and hold fast to My Covenant - :7 them I shall bring to My qodesh mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their slaughterings are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.".

It always soothes the pain, to know that Hashem accepts us and doesn't make a distinction.
I wish that all "born Jews" were on Rabbi Blech's level of spirituality, acceptance and Torah observance! And to Rabbi Blech and to all those who really extends a hand of friendship and acceptance - TODAH RABAH, you have no idea how much it is appreciated and respected!

the reallity is that converts are even more ostracised today. The only way to survive is to go underground and stay silent, otherwise converts get kicked out of jewish Events and synagogues (as observed with a chinese convert). For the persons concerned it means foregoing any deep friendship (forget about having a family) but that is the only real choice if the harsh reality of hte public insults etc are observed by all and noone says anything against it. Many Jews only believe DNA makes jews. but then even Born Jews love dejudaizing their brethren. A pitiful state of jewish life today.

it seems to me that in the area of shiduchim/marriage partners that the datii leumi world is much more accepting of converts than the haredim, but the former head of neturi karta married a convert so one cannot generalize.

Perhaps it depends on the community and country. My observation is that the younger generation has, honestly become really racist. Walked out of jewish events with an israeli friend in protest to the public insulting of converts (the favourite pasttime by some). but then it is also the favourite pasttime of many Jews to dejudaize other jews (also within orthodoxy)

Neturei Karta does not equal "Chareidim," and if it does, then you are leaving a good chunk of ultra-Orthodox world Jewry behind. Neturei Karta is a fringe group and most of "us" do not agree with most everything they do. Being a Jew by birth, I have never experienced the struggles of a ger tzedek. But I do know many Jews by choice, am friends with many - I think what it ultimately comes down to is making sure you are living in the right place, because this ostracization doesn't happen in my community, and no, I am not burying my head in the sand.

Thank you so for sharing your Torah perspective as a Rabbi and your experiences! Having converted many years ago, it pains me too, to continue to hear about the lack of acceptance for so many Jewish neshamos as a potential spouse for a born Jew. Although I don't personally feel resentment, I mourn for the rich relationships which would benefit those born Jews. I wonder if this could be one source of baseless hatred which delays the perfection of this world.

Many Jewish women feel that when Jewish men marry converts or not yet converted Gentile women, they are ignored and are losing an opportunity to marry a nice Jewish man. Unfortunately, there are fewer Gentile men who convert to Judaism.
Now, that is true in Orthodox circles. In non-Orthodox circles, intermarriage is becoming the rule of the majority and this question does not apply any more...

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I would guess that a Ger Tzedek - a Jew by Choice -- is far *less* likely to drop out from frum observance than someone who just happened to be born to a frum Jewish family. Sadly, in today's open world and for various different reasons, I've seen many children from even the most committed wonderful families leave observance, to greater and lesser degrees. The statistics are very distressing.
In any event, it's not the married converts who leave observance . It's some (unknown) percentage of those who have been rejected time and time again due to being a convert. If a religious Jew marries another religious Jew (who happens to be a Jew by Choice), then they are both likely to remain religious for the rest of their lives. In fact, I've seen numerous cases where the convert makes the Jew-by-birth *more* religious.

I actually left the Orthodox Jewish Community because of the constant discrimination I faced while dating or attending services. Baruch HaShem I still observe Judaism but following my conversion which took almost five years, I felt incredible but only for a short period of time probably two to three months. Thereafter I truly hated my new identity because of the constant racism I faced. It was intolerable. Truly, I never thought that converting was such a sinful act for the Jewish Community. Anyways although I'm not planning on coming back to the fold ever again, I'm glad to see that some progress is being made in accepting Jews by choice and that Rabbi Blech is making people aware of how Special we are. Rabbi I wish I had met you right after my conversion. Good luck to all those Jews by choice out there.

Mike, it's never too late to come back. As a ba'al teshuva, I, too, was the target of discrimination. Having semicha and a teacher's certificate, I applied as a rebbe in a local yeshiva. The response from the principal was "Your mother wears pants!" It could have destroyed me, but I realized he was wrong and it is all a test from Hashem. You're right, there are some hurtful people in the orthodox community, but I hope you can find it within yourself not to judge the entire community based on the ill-manners of individuals.

Dear brother, I am also a Jew of color finished my orthodox conversion recently, knowing that discrimination exists in this world. I am so sorry that you felt that way, but if you'd like to talk, I'm here. If you believe that Hashem is just, it follows that everything is letovah, even if it is difficult for us... Yes, I am a convert, I suffer certain things, but deep down I know to conquer these nisiyonos is my tikkun and is a huge Kiddush Hashem if I am able to do that. Why do we care about other people anymore? Even the religious people are just people, they're not Hashem, chas veshalom. We came here for Hashem, and we can trust Him to send us only the tests we can overcome. May you go from strength to strength!

Your story touched me deeply as I myself am a convert. I made a halachic conversion at 32 and am now on the eve of my 44th birthday and still single. As a woman, this is a real problem if I want kids, which I still do. I pray to Hashem like my Rabbis and Rebbetzins told me too, but none of them ever tried to match me with anyone. I even lived in Israel for several years, in Jerusalem mostly, but by the time I got there at 33, most of the religious men were married, unless there was something seriously wrong with them. I often wonder if I had converted at 22 instead of 32 would I have fared any better. Truly, I think not. I was mostly treated like a mascot. Some people in shule would openly state in front of me that they would never want their sons to marry converts. The only men I cannot married is a Cohen, so they cannot use that as an excuse, as their sons were Israel and Levy. I am still happy I converted and keep as much of the laws as I can. I used to be keeping them 100% but after 40 I was so heartbroken every time I went to shule and saw everyone with their beautiful families that I didn't have that I just couldn't take it anymore. I tried living in different cities (Jerusalem, Miami) with more observant Jews than my hometown but it is the same wherever you go. I am on the verge of giving up and going with an open-minded gentile as a husband because at least he would respect my adopted culture (non-observant Jews in my experience are repelled when I tell them I convert - it scares them off because they feel threatened by someone who actually practices Judaism when they didn't have to, so they themselves have no excuse). I am glad that the author of this story is righteous enough to love converts like he is supposed to. I regret I never found that genuine acceptance.

Dear Michal, I can't imagine how you feel, but I urge you not to go out with a gentile, being that you are 100% Jewish. The rabbis and rebbetzins were derelict in not at least directing you to someone who deals with marrying converts. Don't confuse the message with the messenger. The Torah is from Hashem, and perfect. Sometimes, however, the practitioners fail to uphold its tenets. As a Jew, Hashem wants you to marry only a Jew. Don't give up hope, as Hashem will never give up hope in you.

I had tears in my eyes when I read your kind response. Please pray for me...Michal Bat Sarah Imeinu. Please pray in the presence of a minyan if possible, or in a holy place. Thank you truly. I have not given up yet on a shidduch and children but I am running out of strength.

I can feel your pain. Unfortunately this is also my observation, if a Person is a convert in the jewish community, and converted not due to marriage prospects, they are doomed to remain single and without friends. Find comfort in the Jewish faith - perhaps that was supposed to be like that. Who knows, not all Jewish marriages end up happy and perhaps one is spared that pain. Perhaps consider foster caring sort of underrpriviliged children in your community.

Michal-sending you lots of love and strength! Please give us an update and how you are doing. I just got rejected because I am a convert and never thought that it would happen.

I am not Jewish but D&A showed we have some Jewish people in our family.
I believe that G-d gave me a Jewish heart when I was a child. I have always loved Jews. This article is a blessing.

We give names of meaning to them we not know. In this we judge a faith and not see that all are in exile, as this we see ourselves. For who would judge the Maker of all mankind and say it is this or that when it was Joseph who welcomed home his brothers with ever-loving kindness, mercy and forgiveness. For the body is only a vessel and its captain is its spirit given by the blessed One.

I converted when I was 19, and have faced my share of discrimination. It took a year the first time. When I became more observant, I went through the process again (Geirus l"chimera). That took two years.
Thanks to the RCA, the process has been streamlined. Potential converts know exactly what is required. I didn't the first time. I teach women going through the process, and let them understand what Judaism is.
Conversion is more accepted. I married a man whose three sisters were intermarried. Although his brothers married Jews, we were treated like garbage because we kept Shabbat, Kashrut and sent our kids to Jewish schools. Many years later, our children are the only identifiable Jews in the family.
My own family cried over my "lost soul" and completely rejected me.
My kids are dating or engaged and have no problem, and we are in the process of moving to Israel.
Becoming a Jew is the best thing I have ever done!!!

From a fellow ger - B"H!!! So happy for you, may you have lots of nachas from your kids and have a smooth aliyah!

A young man once came to Rav Shlomo Zalman Aurbach and asked if he should marry a convert. Rav Aurbach answered "Of course! You will be fulfilling the commandment to love the convert every day of your life!"

All the best - S

I'm sure Rabbi Blech asked the young man if his young lady had a halachic conversion- a detail left out of the story. I fear that this omission will lead to non Orthodox proponents assuming all converts are to be accepted.

There is no worry anyone might think there was a non-halachic conversion, as Rabbi Blech himself officiated at the wedding!!

It is obvious she had a halachic conversion as Rabbi Blech was the officiating rabbi!!

I'm an Israeli woman who married a convert. Actually I was drawn to converts all my life so it was not a surprise for me or of any difficulty for me to be marrying him.
As a couple of baalat teshuva and a convert, we never experienced any problem with getting our children in schools. kindergartens etc.
In our very frum/hareidy community, people know that my husband is a convert, and they are very accepting and appreciating of him.
Only two days ago, he told me that one of the men in the shul (sp?) told him before the morning prayer that he wants to talk to him after the prayer. This was a man that my husband appreciates very much, someone who is always seen studying torah and very yere shamayim (what's the word in English...) and after the prayer he met my husband and told him that he heard he has a remarkable story and that he would like to hear chizuk from him.

Generally speaking about FFB's marrying converts or even baaley teshuva, I think that in most cases it is not a good idea. The background and life experience is too different. Personally, when my kids will be in shiduchim, I don't think I will let them meet baaley teshuva or converts. The best will be for them to be matched with other kids of baaley teshuva.

To all converts - welcome to the Jewish people.
It is not always easy I'm sure, but 'le'fum tza'ara, agra'.

Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, of blessed memory, wrote that there is nothing wrong for an FFB marrying a baal(at) teshuvah. I am a ba'al teshuva and my wife is FFB, and baruch Hashem, we married off all our kids without any problems. It depends on the sincerity and commitment of the ba'al teshuva/convert. Please do not generalize.

I hope you were not offended - I didn't say that there is anything wrong with an FFB marrying a BT, of course it can work out and they can have a wonderful marriage.

I meant that the life experience between BT's and FFB'S can be so different that it can cause a natural incompatibility (Yes, I'm generalizing).

The most obvious difference that comes to my mind is the dating experience.
How many hareidy men would agree to date and marry a woman who has been around and has been intimate with a man? she can be a wonderful person, caring, has great characteristics and yirat shamayim (and also very sincere and committed in her avodat hashem), but in the bottom line, this is a huge compromise for a man who has never had any physical contact with a woman.

Rabbi Moshe Feinstein zt"l wrote that there is nothing wrong with it, but would he recommend it?

I really want to stress out, that what I wrote is not coming from an inferiority complex or something, not at all, I think we BT's are great :-), it's just that I think that we should avoid marriages that have more chances of failing.

It's a pity, I think, that a person will make this into a flag - If FFB's are willing to marry me than I'm accepted in the hareidy society, If they don't then they are bigots and hate me/ my group.

It's horrible that some comments assume that non-Frum people engage in intimate behavior during dating. While some do, it's inappropriate to assume this holds true of every non-Frum person. Many people are drawn to Orthodox Judaism because they respect our values.

I married a convert and I can only say that not only am I more deeply in love with her than ever, she the most amazing, fantastic, precious person that I have ever met. More than anyone I can think of, she helps me grow in Torah, mitzvot and spirituality. I should remind everyone that mitvza #431 is to love a convert. In fact a person is commanded to love a convert like they love Hashem which is in fact MORE than you are commanded to love a regular Jew which you are only required to love them like you love another person. Did you know the Torah says 36 times not to distress a convert! Can you think of anything else mentioned so many times in the Torah? All Jews were converts when they they left Egypt as the Torah says. I urge people not to tolerate at any level anything besides tremendous care, love and admiration for a convert. Anything less is simply not following to the Torah properly and not being a proper Jew.

This question, I believe, still shocks every convert who read it a bit deep down, even though we are used to it. Last parsha, Re'eh, just spoke of ahavas ha-ger.
The fact that this is such a difficult issue for some people for the mere fact that she is not your race / a convert / baal teshuva / not your tradition / has no yichus when she's very good otherwise shows that our Torah level can use some elevation, and the rabbi already explained well in the article.
I'm a convert who is B"N trying to learn every day, before work, after work, during meals, during Shabbes rather than schmoozing and snoozing... Why? learning Torah is my way of proving to Hashem "here Tate, you didn't put me in a family of rabbis, not even of Jewish parents. But I am trying hard from Modeh Ani to going to bed to give myself chinuch; my father is Avraham avoteinu and I learn from his humility and how he passed all the tests for You, my mother is Sara imateinu and I learn from her clarity and modesty; and I am learning from Rabbi Akiva that it is never too late to try my best to educate myself even if you have no yichus, you're poor or anything else". Judge people for who they are. Yichus of a person had to be made before it existed. We can make our own yichus :)

Who said converts dont have yichus? We have wonderful yichus from Avraham and Sarah. I've personally met various converts who are truly admirable, and role models for every Jew born or converted.

A true convert's soul stood at Mount Sinai while the yichus-rich person's did many generations ago. Next time someone asks you this question, tell him Batya a convert saved Moshe; David came from Ruth, so the Moshiach comes from a convert; what do you care about - Torah or people's opinion? Are you marrying her, or her ancestry? A dad who wouldn't marry his daughter to Rabbi Akiva before he was Rabbi because of yichus issues is the one with problems, not Rabbi Akiva. Look at the neshama not the kelipot.

My favorite joke when meeting someone new (which really has zero to do with my being a ger) is when i say "Oh yeah - I remember you!"
And when they give me the questioning look, I will reply:
"You were right there. Same black hat and everything.... You know... At Har Sinai! (And I may add the appropriate addendum like - I was looking through the mechitza; or - yeah, you know, you were on the Left with those folks while I was on the Right... or - Whatever is funny and appropriate)

That was a good one!!! Thanks for sharing. Sorry Im only seeing it after exactly 1 year (?!)

P.S. I'm the same person as Alexandra. I've just finished my geirus!

Blah, blah, blah. Bitter ? Not any more. When I was young , In 1972 I converted at age 21 in Tanger, Morocco under Haham Yamin Cohen. (I was stationed in Rota, Spain.) As someone who simply wanted to be a good Jew, and not to get married, as is the case for the vast majority of seekers, I took the plunge. I already spoke Hebrew very well, and studied everything I could. Well, after I got off active duty, I studied for nine months at Ohr Someach in Yerushalayim, while Rav Noach Weinberg was still there. Wow, was I an anomaly, their token convert! People were very nice, but there was always a very strong undercurrent of "Who the hell is this guy?" though it was never blatant. When I moved to New York City and went to college, again, most people were very nice and I made several very close relationships with some of my now most cherished friends. However, none of them would ever want a convert in their own family. After dating a rabbi's daughter, I could see them squirm when she had me meet them. Soon afterwards, I found out she only dated me to make them do just that. I was just a tool for her to get back at her parents ! Well, after seven years of being as frum and sincere, I got the picture, and simply left the Orthodox world, even though I kept up my friendships. I have met other converts with similar stories. Not every ending is as sweet as this lovely story. Even today I sense this feeling of aloofness from many Jews. Often they're shocked that I am a convert, because I speak both Hebrew and Yiddish so well, and am extremely knowledgeable about the Orthodox world. After all, I lived this life for the majority of my time on this earth !

This is not simply sad... It is heartbreaking that a Ger was "driven" out of observing Mitzvot -- and no doubt the people who did this deed will "pat themselves on the back" -- saying "I told you so"...
All I can think of is that after "120" -- The *REAL* Beis Din will judge those people as they truly deserve....
AND.. I am SO sorry that this person could only meet the "religious" folk who could behave in such a despicable fashion -- and that the person missed out on all of the TRULY religious people who would never have put this ger through such an experience....

You appear to be the only comment that is genuine and truthful. There is tremendous bias against geriim in the right wing frum world. Some do sweet lip service and outwardly condone a "mixed match" but in private - not. And it starts with the shaddgunim who steer families away from converts! The people we are to believe have deep commitment, special talent and knowledge are often the biggest offenders. You sound like a catch - hang in there.

Hi Barry, I was really touched by what you wrote.
I converted when I was 12, but am 26 years old now... and continue to face what you wrote of everyday. I was bullied in highschool (all girls), shunned by local communities, even rejected by some events due to my "convert label" Sometimes, I wanted to give it all up...I was tired of feeling alone/ different/ and yes even embarrassed. But then I remember how much I went through and go through every day to be a frum Jew.... Being a religious Jew is not easy, but a religious convert is more difficult. But now I point to shamyim and say "You are always worth it...." So I guess what Im trying to say is, dont let anyone push you away from being Jewish by choice---it's still your choice every single day. You make your ending... I wish you all the best :)

My fellow ger tzeddik.
I realize that the time may have come and gone for you however, there is always a new future in store for all of us.
I have been blessed enough that I have remained with the program (frum) with the help of my wonderful Jewish wife; my wonderful children; and my fantastic grandchildren!
I'm lucky as all get out that I converted in a warm and embracing community where probably 1/2 of our shul are either gerim or baalei teshuva's.
So - yes. Hashem has blessed me in spite of the profound personal failures that keep on pursuing in my own life...

With all due respect - It does All depend on what YOU want.
Unfortunately, the majority of gerim in our community that have converted in the last 25 years of my Jewish life, have fallen off the derech and are no longer part of our community.
Then again - the overwhelming majority of gerim combined - those who converted in the last 25 years in our community; those who have moved into our community in the last 25 years; or those who became Jewish before the last 25 years - are all going strong!

My friends who have left Yiddishkeit all did so for similar reasons as has been expressed here. Some felt that they were not treated "right."

We all have our baggage that we carry around with us. Jews are no more "enlightened" than anyone else.
But - we are all enjoined to be kind. To emulate Avraham Avinu. We learn that any Jew who is unkind is suspected of not being Jewish at all!
This includes thee and me....
I am required to be kind enough to accept other people's foibles and, that it is not other Jews that I have to worry about accepting me - it is whether I am doing what G-d wants; what Hashem demands of me.
As I find that I fail more often than not in doing what G-d requires of me - why in heck would I care how other Jews regard me?
I'm still a work in progress.
So are you.
C'mon back. Life is Beautiful All the Time.

I know who wrote this from "Life is Beautiful All the Time."
Yasher koach, and thank you for being an example to me.

Barry, I totally get what you say. How sad! As a baal teshuvah, I get this. Ruth was slandered, put down by everybody. Her commitment was still complete. That showed her malchus. Jews judge baal teshuva and converts as someone who can potentially ruin their perfect purity (I don't know where they get this looking at their actions). You already know that Orthodox are people and they make many many mistakes. Everyone will be judged. People who reject converts will be judged. People who make judgement based on lashon hara will be judged. There is again Hashem who KNOWS the truth and values all you did, all your effort, struggle, love--it's very dear to HIM. He will reward you. YOu seem like straight arrow who never done it for people. So keep it up for God. He will reward you greatly. You are not token Jew, you might be most important Jew. Dovid was greater than Saul.

Thanks for this beautiful , powerful written article.
There are more areas in Judaism where ignorance has caused damage and I hope more of these kind of articles will be published by Aish or others.
Ketivah vachatimah tovah

I am a convert too, and I feel that I am treated as a second-class member of my black-hat community. And it is clearly not just a matter of prejudices contrary to Torah. You bring the positive statements, but there are sources in the gemara, for example that say negative things about converts, that seem to be actively applied in practice. Like that a convert should never hold a position in which he could exercise any authority with respect to born-Jews ("even an irrigation supervisor", i.e. a pretty lowly technical position). I am a professional but have never been asked to serve as a board member on any community organization. At my shul for over a decade I have never been encouraged or permitted to daven from the amud. It is all very hush hush. Maybe you would like to write about and explain what the Maharal has to say about converts. Ultimately, I feel that all the negativity about converts is actually a distortion of Torah. But it needs to be acknowledged and confronted. This kind of xenophobia ((even more than other kinds!) is a chillul Hashem.

That's what the Rabbi is saying, in essence.
And living, in practice, by being thrilled to welcome a convert into his family.

Unfortunately, there are people in our community who claim to be frum but are selective in the mitzvohs they choose to follow. They're extra concerned about people who might sit or stand when they make Kiddush, but ignore the Torah when it comes to treating a Ger properly. They won't eat a strawberry but will never show Hakores Hatov to the nation that allows them to follow their religion freely. They overlook the very severe sin of Chillul Hashem but have no problem welcoming the trangressor back to Shul and honoring him with an Aliyah instead of shunning him as they should.
Basically, our priorities are all screwed up!!

With all due respect - you either need to find a new kehilla or.... possibly give the benefit of the doubt to those whom you daven with...
Myself, I would favor moving.
I am a ger. I have served on the boards of all of our community organizations until they stopped asking me because I am an impatient fellow who cannot sit and dither with other board members over their petty ante issues (and why don't they simply take MY opinion as gospel?!! ;) )
I have been asked to daven for the amud until they stopped asking because I have a weird sort of stage fright (despite having been an actor - which is why I am not one now) where I cannot lead davening in an intelligible manner in a language that I do not completely understand. I tried a few times and stumbled badly as I was trying to concentrate on each word... Now, I just tell them that if they want Mincha to last an hour, I'd be happy to daven....

However - I don't know you or your people. But - from the way you write it, it does not sound healthy at all.
I would recommend moving to Minnesota where (after a certain amount of time - a year.... 5 years.... it depends... just kidding) Everybody is Nice (well - except for Those people whom I do not talk to at all! Still kidding... Sort of...) and Life is Beautiful All the Time!

Seriously. Do not foster resentment in yourself by hanging out with those people whom you do not feel treat you properly.
Please.

Benav, I feel your pain. And what you say is sad truth. I would encourage you to change community. If you have opportunity to leave place, do it. There are better and worse communities, depending on parnass, rabbi, and most important variety of Jews. Unfortunately black hat community believes only in one kind of Jews (others are not even Jewish in their view) and create their alternate reality=illusion=estrangement from actual Jewish values. Remember that Ruth suffered tremendously. So did King Dovid. They still said about him--he is not even Jewish! People did not change:) But you know--we follow Dovid, not Frum From Birth idiots who questioned his heart!

I recommend changing shuls and "nobody needs to know" who is or isn't a convert vs. a born Jew. It's just plain not anyone's business. "You were raised in a secular home and now you are a Ba'alat Tshuvah", that is it. You deserve and have a RIGHT to do anything as a Jew. Stand your ground and don't take what you're being dished.

“Should I break up the relationship?” the man asked me. “Many of my friends and family are advising me to do because she didn’t grow up the same way I did and she really doesn’t have any prominent rabbinic figures or notable Jewish role models in her family. What should I do?”

Thank you, New York.

Due to multiple similar situations with family members and acquaintances facing the same decision, I have found that there is more merit in those who made it their choice to become Jewish than those have it by birth. I have seen countless relationships where mostly the wives take the religion principles more profoundly than those who inherited it. I have seen the negative side where a Rabbi has rejected perform any form of services to individuals who although they are converted, they cast doubt about the level of conversion, thus living them in a limbo, and at the end losing them as members and resentful,.....

This article makes me happy and sad. Many people look down on converts yet converting to orthodox Judaism is a difficult path and my experience is that converts make better Jews. They know all the Halachot, they are very special people who chose to be Jewish. It makes my blood boil when I see that a convert is worth less on a Ketubah than a person born in the Jewish faith. Yet a convert could probably tell you more about Judaism than many people born into the faith. I salute all converts.

I am a Jew by choice. It's gotten easier for me, and more accepted in the frum community over the years, but there are still people who are not supportive. It means so much to read this on Aish.

I, personally, am a BT. The mother of my children is a convert.
(We're divorced, but that's another story.)

There is still too much negativity in the FFB world against the BTs
without even getting STARTED talking about the converts.

I know families who are raising Down's-Syndrome children not their own because the birth parents
"can't have anyTHING like THAT in the family.
It'll ruin the shidduchim for the other kids."

I wouldn't want to be those people when HaShem asks them about it.
And, BTs who perhaps have a greater zerizus than some of the
FFBs? or, Who have a more mature approach to Chumash and Mishnayos than many FFBs?
When did WE stop being Jews?
Because we have no illustrious ancestors in the last ten generations?

So you're article is true and inspiring and makes a great point, but
it's MUCH more than a little sad, too.

I am Rabbi Blech's eldest daughter, and the first of his children to get married.
Nearly 35 years ago, I married a wonderful man who checks *two* of the boxes that are supposedly negatives in the upside-down priority list of many current parents and shadchanim: He is a BT and the child of divorced parents.
My parents accepted him with love, and without a moment's hesitation.
As my father wrote above: " Their children give proof to the adage that greater than glorying in our past is the ability to take pride in our future."
This clearly applies to BT's as well, and here too my father "[p]ut his money where his mouth is," so to speak.

Tamar, it's wonderful to hear how accepting your family is towards BT's and Converts, but unfortunately, the majority of frum Yidden would not want to have one of us marry into their families. Our shmiras halacha is suspect, are past is held against us, and as mentioned in your father's article, our sincerity doesn't seem to suffice and we are seen as not Jewish enough for not having been raised Jewish... It's exceptionally painful.

I very much hope that you're wrong and the majority of "frum Yidden" as you put it would be thrilled to marry a Jew by Choice (assuming the person is the right one, of course).
All I can say is that I agree with the comments above: It depends a lot on the community. I live in a "Modern Orthodox" neighborhood in Beit Shemesh, and no one cares less. We have plenty of BT's and Geirim.
Frankly, I think one will find that most of the problem is in the formal "shidduch" system, where people literally have "shidduch resumes" (!!) and points are added or subtracted based on a perverted understanding of Judaism. I advise you -- and everyone if I had my 'druthers -- to meet your mate the old-fashioned way: by meeting them at Shul or Shabbatonim or work, etc., or by being set-up by a friend, not a Shadchan.
Because something's definitely gone wrong with the existing system, which often seems to inculcate and effect the very opposite of what the Torah teaches us.
And finally, thank you so much for choosing to join us!

Yes, exactly:) Your question "when did we stop being Jews?" is very good one! I consider some of FFBs not Jewish the way they behave towards other Jews. Second temple was destroyed for this. They seem to think they are mezora, using their time studying Torah, yet they don't get basics. American rabbis hijacked orthodox Judaism and recreated their reality. Instead of learning from Holocaust they recreated version that most of the Jews were just assimilated "nonJews" so Holocaust was "right thing". USA, which never experienced WW they think they are better, they are protected by their virtuous behavior. Oy, they never learn!!!! I fear for my people!!!!!

My wife and I just celebrated our 38th wedding anniversary. Her mother, of blessed memory, converted when my wife was a few years old. This was in a foreign country. She was told her mother's conversion would include her. Then when she was older, she was converted again ( also in that same country, just to make sure). Before we got married, I suggested that she undergo another conversion, just to make sure. And she did. My son, who lives in Israel, wanted to marry an Israeli woman and was told that his mother needed to undergo another conversion, because all the paper work she had, was somehow not satisfactory. Remember, we are observant, Shomer Shabbas and kosher! We went through the process with my niece, the wife of my nephew who is a Chabad rabbi. They studied together for a year and my wife was converted for the 4th time, by the RCA. We were then remarried, for the 4th time! This seemed to be acceptable and so my son and his beloved were married. I asked the RCA if we could be entered in the Guinness book of World Records. They laughed! It has been a very interesting journey. My wife is a gem! My advice is stick with it and don't look back. There will always be naysayers but that is life. Elul is around the corner and what better way to observe it than by planning this wonderful step forward.

Everyone should be so patient and good humored as y'all are...
I myself did a Conservative "conversion" first before we evolved further...
But it is sad that I have friends who resent their "non acceptance."
There is a woman I know who was brought up as a Jew - her father was Jewish; her mother was not.
Although she wants to be more observant, she will never convert and is offended if others do not consider her Jewish.

My experience has been that the more religiously knowledgeable a community is, the more welcoming they are to a convert. In my early years as a Jew by choice, I was treated kindly but with occasional scepticism at a synagogue where community edged out religious observation as the primary motif. Later on, when I lived in Jerusalem, cynicism and suspicion were absent. For the most part, Israelis worry less about yichus, think someone who longs to be a member of a famously stiff-necked and long-persecuted people is just fine and welcome to the club. I am now back in the USA, an active member of an Orthodox Sephardic congregation, where religious knowledge runs deep and where I feel respected for my learning and embraced for my devotion to Jewish values - not treated differently from the way I might be had I been born a Jew. I don't take this for granted -- I still feel a thrill when a fellow worshiper leans over and whispers, "What page are we on?"

I remember when I was single and people would try to find shidduchim for me. There were a few people who would try to have me date men who were not 100% Torah Observant just because I have to date these gorgeous guys. I would say no. But then I would try to tell them that I wanted a man who was Torah Observant, but that I was OK with a ba'al teshuvah or a ger, these "shadchanim" would be aghast at that one. Terribly sad. My bashert turned out to be FFB, but he knows very well that I wouldn't have turned him down if he had been a BT or a ger. True ba'alei teshuvah and geirim are truly special people who appreciate Torah and Mitzvot in ways that many of us don't.

Shkoyach for your kind words.

BTW, we have three very special children who are not yet in the shidduch parsha, but we've agreed that they need to marry very special people. Geirim and Ba'alei Teshuvah are inherently special people so we don't object to that at all. We just want our children to marry Torah Jews who love Torah and Mitzvot.

This article of yours touched my heart and restored my soul.
Thank you so much!