Ma's Intermarriage Game

I am going to play this game with my teenage kids, iy"H. (:

It would seem to me, Eddie, and Mr. Shapiro, that your view of what is considered halachically acceptable and "more Jewish" is based very much on your emotions. What's "more Jewish," and what "betrays God" is outlined by Torah alone, my friend, and not on what people would like to think. Not living the way of the Torah is betraying God, and to speak of Ruth as the model convert? She was a Torah abiding Jew. Please. Let's not fool ourselves by making believe that we can be good Jews without doing God's Will. It's not about FEELING warm, fuzzy, and Jewish inside. That alone is not enough to hand down farther than, if we're lucky, a generation or two. HAts off to Alexa Witt for a beautiful article.

There are so many lonely Jewish women out there. What if a woman waits and waits, and tries to meet Jewish men, but no one wants anything to do with her, and then comes someone who isn't Jewish but is crazy about her? Isn't it better to marry him than to stay alone? Because if that woman stays alone, the line will stop anyway!!!

There is a similar aish.com article regarding that I believe. Basically, a marriage is about a husband and wife connecting to bring about 'tikun ha'olom' :correction of the world. We each have our own distinct roles and to marry someone outside one's own beliefs doesn't lend one to correct the world as a pair-a partnership needs to be between similar individuals, not ones with totally opposite opinions and values. A Jew and a non-Jew have different outlooks and views and marrying one into the other doesn't cut it. It's not that 'we need to get married,' it's that we should get married in order to 'fix-up' the world with our partners. The right one is always out there, but sometimes we need to remember that the time for it might not be now...aish.com also has some great dating articles....

It's not better to marry the non-Jew.. Even if she will never marry and not have children anyway. Because she will stay loyal to God and His Torah. Jews have given a lot more to remain loyal to G-d. They were burned at the sake during the Inquisition, slashed to pieces by the Crusaders. So this woman will give up marrying a non Jew, and stay single, and remain loyal to her Creator.

One of the 613 commandments that the Torah specifically states is not to marry a non-Jew. Essentially, it doesn't matter that the line will end there. The fact is that the lonely women must stick to the Torah and not marry out anyway.

Thank you Mr. Shapiro, could not say it better or add to your insights. Too often, I see this attatude among the observent Jews. I also find that many converts are more observant and proud to be included in the jewish community than ethnic Jews.

This article is very short sighted and could be considered racist at times. Yes, we must remain Jewish and we must continue the legacy of our ancestors. But have we forgotten that we are to be "a light unto the nations"? It is part of Judaism to seek converts, to bring them closer to God. It is only in the diaspora, for fear of persecution and death, that we have become an "exclusive club" that is virtually closed to the outsiders. But it was not always that way. In Roman times, the Jews constituted 10% of the population of the empire and many more Jews lived in the Parthian empire, outside the Roman reach. Not all of them were direct descendants of the 12 tribes of Israel. In fact, most of them were converts or descendants of converts. Some of our most revered Talmudic sages are converts or descendants of converts (Rabbi Akiva being one of the most famous). What of King David? Have we forgotten that his grandmother Ruth was a Moabite? Yet, we hold her in such esteem that a descendant of hers will one day be the Moshiach. At this time, with Hanukkah fast approaching, I should also remind everyone about the Maccabbees expansionist policy. Not only did they liberate the Temple, Jerusalem and the Land of Israel, but they expanded their kingdom beyond its ancient borders and made converts by the sword (King Herod and the Idumeans anyone?). While it is against our beliefs to force people to accept Judaism, we should return to our long abandoned practice of actively seeking convets. It is our duty to offer the gifts of Judaism to others. We should not shun the world, we should embrace it and make a special effort to bring people within the fold of Judaism.

As far as siting the insincerity of some converts, we should concentrate on the Jewish spouses of such failed unions. Should we not seek to educate our fellow Jews? Should we not strengthen the knowledge of their heritage within these Jews? If Jews can't even stand up for their beliefs and history because they lack any knowledge of these, how do you expect their newly converted (or still gentile) partners to take Judaism seriously? How do we expect children of such unions to remain Jewish?

On a personal level, I am a secular Jew and I cherish my Jewish heritage. I hold strong beliefs in God and His promises to us. My heritage is exremely important to me and I will never abondon it, willingly or under duress. It is important to me because I am a link in a 4,000-year-old chain of continuous Jewish history; because within me flows the blood of King David (and his grandmother Ruth) and (through my mother's line) the blood of Aaron the High Priest; because for over 20 years I have studied (and continue to study) various aspects of Jewish history; and because I believe that we, as Jews, have a special relationship with God. I would never betray God, my ancestors, and our beliefs. The suffering of my people is ingrained within my DNA and I will never forgive and forget. And because of all this, and because seeking converts is a part of my heritage, I find this article misguided. For 2000 years we have retreated into tribalism and have forgotten about an important part of our heritage and we have shirked our duty to share it with the rest of humanity.

Because of my strong identity, I was able to marry a convert. My wife was born a WASP but had converted to Orthodox Judaism before we were married after almost 2 years of studying. Though we do not practice, she identifies herself as a Jew. She even uses a smattering of Yidishisms that would warm the heart of any Jew. Our 2 children are halachically Jewish. They know who they are, even though their maternal grandparents are Christian. And yes, we visit them for Christmas, but my children know that it is not their holiday. Whenever Hannukah falls around Christmas, we light our menorahs in their grandparents home. How fitting it is for my children, who are descended from the line of King David, to have a convert as their mother.

It is time we have changed our exclusivism and began to once again offer Judaism to the rest of mankind. That is the only way to ensure the survival of our people and our heritage.

The talmud clearly states that converts were not accepted at times that the Jewish people were flourishing. This was intended to weed out those who were converting for purposes other than the proper service of G-d. We can bring them closer to G-d without them converting and those that do convert properly are treated as valid Jews. However there significant issues with converting people that will not follow Halacha. Yiddish is not what made the Jewish nation, rather the following of the Torah and converts who do not do this are actually more of a liability than an asset. It would also be better for these people to remain gentiles than to convert and not practice. THere are a few members of my family who married converts and they were all embraced but there is no imperitive to actively seek converts. Additionally, King Herod was actually a slave who freed himself and proceeded to kill many innocent people during his reign so we should not bring any proofs from him.

I agree with all your thoughts. I am ultra Orthodox. I believe in trying to convert the nations to Judaism. Our Rabbis of blesssed memory taught that we accept converts throughout history ,except for the days of Kings David and SHelomo and in the time of Mashiah, because when Israel is on top everyone wants to convert to Judaism. However, to be truly Jewish and to convert others, you must be more observant. Our Rabbis taught: correct yourself and then correct others. You know that converts often embarass born Jews by the former 's devotion to Hashem and the latter's lack thereof. So, please come home. You are a proud Jew; become a proud observant Orthodox Jew. It will fit you well and you will be happy.

You had a long winded comment that was not necessary. A Convert to Judaism is a Jew, especially one who convert way before you met her. Wasted diaglogue.

The problem is those who marry non-Jews who will not convert and have no allegiance to Judaism. All they want is a Tree in December and will leave you do your thing the rest of the year. Those Unions are not Kosher and do keep people who want to date and marry Jews from doing so.

I'm sorry, but this sounds like a horrible article - is that all there to marry Jewish, to perpetrate a tradition that you dont really understand or care about aside from it being forced on you by your parents. Judaism is not a tradition, its a religion; its not the way we do things because our parents did, but its the way we do things because this is our reality as determined by Hashem and the Torah. If all there is to marrying Jewish is guilt about breaking 2000 years of tradition, and nothing about preserving a Jewish soul and Torah household, it makes sense why the intermarriage rate is so high.

So the author thinks her mother's games are ridiculous, but she accepts their message in the end - you must marry Jewish because you are Jewish, while divine commandment is never in the picture. Or else the more rational option is Christopher.

The author gave a good reason to marry Jewish in the end. It is she will have somebody who feels the same about her identity who is also feels the same. A non-Jew (unless one who has Converted) will never share the same feelings about being Jewish. A Converted was moved to convert. Someone of another religion will always have allegiance to their own because that's how we are. The author is very clear on her choice. It was a good choice.

Though I normally enjoy aish.com a great deal, I found this one quite offensive. Ms. Witt talks about the "family friend whose non-Jewish wife became a Jesus freak and sent the kids to an evangelical summer camp from which they returned asking Daddy if he was Satan." Though I don't doubt that some Evangelical camps are bad, many are not. My guess is that even fewer teach that Jews are Satan. However, if this example had to be used, it could have been said without the derogatory and cliché term "Jesus freak". She continues with "we were brought up to believe that people of all races and religions are unique and important." Unique and important, perhaps, but obviously not worth being treated with the respect she herself would like to be treated.

I enjoyed reading Alexa's article, and strongly feel the same way her and her mother feel about the responsibility to marry a jewish person to keep the jewish people going, but I felt that she didn't continue far enough to the point- why keep the jewish people going?
IN her articel she says, "to perpetuate and strengthen the line of whatever the Jewish people can nobly contribute to this world"- but she does not mention what that "whatever" is- the most important element of the jewish people- the understanding of God as the Creator of the universe and Giver of the Torah. The whole purpose of being Jewish and perpetuating Judiasm is to teach the world and help mankind recognize God as the creator and King of all Kings, which is done on a personal and national level through the following of the mitzvos, and ultimately through the beit hamikdash, b'mheira b'yameinu.

I have a different experience I'd like to share. My parents are both Jewish. My father's family emigrated to Israel in 1938 from Berlin and he moved to the United States in the 1950's. He and his family have never been observant. In fact, he would eat every Yom Kippur, claiming he had a headache. My mother is a Holocause Survivor and she is the one who brought observance to our house. That was a mixed message for a child even with both parents being Jewish! I dated both Jewish and non-Jewish guys, and fell in love with one who is not Jewish. We dated 15 years and were engaged for 2 years so we entered marriage knowing each other very well. We discussed, as another email suggested, the rules for our house before we married. Our home would be (and is) a Jewish home, our children would be Jewish children (if Hashem will please Bless us with children!!). Before we were married, we took a Basic Judaism class at The Temple. There, as students discussed their personal experiences, both of us were astonished to discover how many Jewish people had grown up having Christmas trees in their homes! Today, instead of becoming less observant I'm growing more so. With Aish and other resources on the internet, I'm able to study, and share what I learn with my husband but without pressuring him. If he does choose to convert I feel it must be his decision. He observes the holidays with me. He's a wonderful and kind person and is actually the best person I know. He is devoted to my family and loves my mother as a son would. I have been similarly devoted to his family, and his dear mother, a blessed memory, welcomed me and loved me as a daughter. Interestingly, my husband's sister (who I consider my very own sister), her husband and 2 daughters converted several years ago and they are more active, observant and knowledgable than many of the people I know who were born Jewish.

I find this article to be both wonderful and right on the money. The BIG PROBLEM I see with it is that the other sex (male jewish population)seems to feel the need to marry lots of blue eyed babes who just happen to be Shiksas and in some cases Moslem. I am a Russian Jew who was raised in NYC and I go to lots of weeding on a regular basis. In the last 6-7 years I have attended only 3 weddings where a Jewish male married a Jewish female. I made the Shidduch for 1 of these weddings (my sister) and the brother of my brother-in-law also married a Jewish girl. Every Jewish boy I grew up with has married a shiksa. They are always complaining that Jewish girls are difficult to approach and difficult to talk to and get along with. They always talk about how shiksas are very beautiful and make wonderful wives. I would love to marry a Jewish guy and unfortunately I have found that in NYC many are not looking for marriage and are die hard commitment phobics or they have waited so long to get married that they are not looking to marry a girl that is age appropriate and want a 20-25 years old. I happen to be 30. Thay also don't want to marry women who remind them of the mothers that they can never get away from because Jewish mothers hold onto sons with teeth and nails forever and don't want to let go, so of course there is no girl good enough for their spoiled and overindulged sons. Perhaps someone should play this cute game and teach all these wonderful thing to the male of our people and then we will not have to entertain notions of marriage with non-Jews because there will be available Jewish men for Jewish women to marry. We cannot marry men who don't want to marry us.

I appreciate the sentiment behind the words, but it is very painful to be lumped into conversions gone awry, even when you use a qualifier. I am a convert who happens to be of African decent. I worry about my children who will constantly have to assert their Jewish identity simply because they have more melanin than their European counterparts. It is very frustrating when you consider JFB of European decent that never have to assert their Jewish identity despite their lack of observance. It is very disheartening to consider the total disregard of Jews of color, either from birth or conversion.

Ultimately, despite my desire to convert out of sincerity, it is hard to be considered suspect. This line of thinking will make it difficult for Jews of color to avoid intermarriage.

Hey! Nice to see you published on aish.com! Good article. D

Do people realy think we are jews by accident?A legacy from over 4000years!
Do people just drop everything for someone`s blue eyes and break a chain for ever? In a country where finaly one can be a jew without a problem! Is it realy so that when we are free to practice we drop our Jewishness?Every jew owe^s it to himself to at least try to discover these eternal truths before he drops everything by marrying out of his religion.
I live in Europe and thank G-d there is still some kind of antisemitism now i realize that maybe after all ....it might keep some people staying Jewish.

A man asked me to marry him. He said he would convert, all the way, bris and all. I went for it.

He tried. He said the Eshet Chayil on Friday nights, along with the kiddush and motzi. He went to Friday night Temple (he did not like being "banished" to the men's side of the mehitzah; he wanted to sit with me.) We kept kosher at home--and partially in restaurants--just as I'd been reared. We studied Jewish texts. We took lessons in Hebrew. (Yes, I'd been to Hebrew school but I still needed to learn.)

But as a daugher-in-law I realized I had "married" his whole family. Fortunately, only one of his aunts actually disliked Jews, and she tried to keep it to herself. One of his cousins, a nurse, regaled me at our first meeting with diseases found among Jews. Most people were fine. My mother-in-law tried to provide us with a semblance of kosher meals when we visited. BUT--my child's first two Decembers were spent under an Xmas tree in her home. With the best will in the world, we could not resolve certain disagreements with my dear mother-in-law based on different primary values. And it turned out that my convert husband, so eager to embrace a religion without Jesus, was hoping to find a religion without Gd either!

Moreover, following my example, my brother dated, and fell in love with, a Catholic, whose conversion was marred by constant complaints about the stupidity of kashrus and Shabbos and about wanting "more spirituality"; the bottom line is that my husband and I lasted 17 years and then divorced, with devastating effect on our child; my brother's marriage lasted 30 years, and after their divorce his wife started going to church. His children are devastated. He is devastated. And his daughter, who is now dating a man who for her sake is taking conversion classes, is already having to defend herself for not wanting a Christmas tree in her home, "for his mother's sake."

I remember a meeting of Jews in mixed marriages. We went around the group and everyone had special problems. One poignant example which has haunted me ever since was the man who said, "My wife said since she went to church regularly and I didn't go to services, this proved that her religion meant more to her than mine did to me, so of course she should raise our son as a Christian. I couldn't think of an argument, and now I have to see my own precious little boy praying to Jesus every bedtime and every morning and every meal. It just tears me up inside." The pain on his face made it clear he regretted not standing up for his Jewish commitment. So if you are convinced that this person is the one for you, then, at the very least, make it clear from the gitgo (from the outset, from the very beginning) that Jewish commitment involves something other than attendance at services, and that you absolutely DO care that your child be reared as a Jew, and that this is not negotiable or even questionable.

Remember, when you marry him/her, you also marry his/her mother, father, sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles, cousins, the whole works. Go together for a year. Be engaged for a year, complete with conversion classes. See if your beloved's desire to become Jewish really "takes." You may find that you are not as comfortable with this beloved person as you wish you were.