Jewish Day School Fears

Look at the number of staff in the schools. In another culture they would do with a fraction of the staff. Every unnecessary person adds to tuition (mashgiach ruchani, director of hashkafa, director of admissions, .....

Same with American shuls with a full-time rabbi, many making 6 figure salaries for doing nothing.

Much more to say.

I have a question about the claim that 70% of Jews in public school intermarry. Is that the percent of ALL Jews in PS, or a percent of the Orthodox Jews in PS? Orthodox are more likely to send their kids to JDS, but they are also less likely to intermarry. This may skew the results. You cannot compare a religiously dedicated family that sends their kids to Yeshiva to a secular Jew who sends their kids to PS as proof that PS kids are more likely to intermarry. It is not honest. I wonder what the real statistics would show and whether the numbers are truely that grim. I'm willing to bet it is not even close to 70%, especially since, according to the NJPS 2000, the intermarriage rate for secular Jews was only 49% and i doubt that enough secular Jews send their kids to JDS to account for the remaining 21%. It leads me to believe that you are counting even unaffiliated Jews, which would be severely dishonest.

I have a daughter in JDS. She has been there for 2 years, after spending K-2 in public school. She loves her school, but may not be able to attend next year due to funding. Here is my dilemma. The more I think about the option of public school, the more I think it may be better overall. I am a firm believer in meeting people from all walks of life. I do not feel that a JDS allows for that. At a JDS, students learn all the secular subjects, along with strong Judaic studies which is great. But, at least at our school, the students do not get a strong ARTS and music education, short of learning typical Jewish songs. They are offering 10 weeks of music lessons, but you have to pay $150 which is $150 more than any ARTS program in public school. Also, the fact that there are only 6 kids slated to be n her class next year, also doesn't sit too well. It lowers the number of children she has to make or be friends with. She will be in class with these same 6 kids, assuming no one else leaves, until the 8th grade. I think she needs more options in many areas. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate what the JDS has done for my daughter, but I feel they may have done all they can. We will see.

Unfortunately there are exceptions to every rule. Generally, JDS's are much better for a person to retain his Jewish identity and live in the world as a proud, spiritual and often observant Jewish person. Agreed, it doesn't work like that for everybody, but because for the majority it does, I wouldn't be so quick to blame the system. Perhaps, there are other factors as well?

I have 4 grown children who are all products of the day school system. Two have masters degrees. None are high earners, because all 4 chose to go into "service professions" - all are idealistic about using their gifts for a greater good in serving their fellow man, despite a smaller salary, and I attribute their extreme desire to do chesed to their day school upbringing. However, I don't think we can minimize the extreme toll that tuition takes on Jewish families, and the sacrifices made to pay for Jewish education. We cannot underestimate stress it places on one's health, relationships, marriages, etc. I agree with Comment #29 who states, "It is unfortunate that tuition should function as birth control in our community " - a most ironic and counterproductive result of day school tuitions. It is also shameful that our local Associated (Jewish Federation) pays such a minimal amount to subsidize Jewish education in my city.

Some memories of my JDS days in Montreal in the 1960's: A rabbi taught me Latin, a stern Englishman carrying a heavy cane taught me French, Israelis taught me physics, Hebrew, Tanach and Mishnah, a "regular" rabbi did his best to explain the intricacies of secular laws expounded in aramaic Gemarrah, a cute young lady in a short skirt drummed algebra into me, and the principal had me reading English lit and composing compositions. In between we played some vicious field hockey and learned how to handle a Hebrew prayer book. Anybody want to claim I didn't receive a universal education?

First off, I am not opposed to a proper religious education for children at all. The points this article makes about Judaism being just too big to properly get a grasp of from Sunday School are amongst the strongest it makes. However, not all yeshivot and Jewish day schools are created equal, and the point about secular education was terribly brushed over. As a professional physicist, I have cringed at Shabbos tables more than once, at what gets taught to children in my community as "science." There are some rabbaim who will tell you that the sun orbits the Earth. Others will tell you that the dinosaurs were trick placed there by Hashem to test your faith in Torah. Of course that leads into a flood of ignorance about evolution. Math standards are low. By low, I mean no better than and frequently worse than the lowest tier of public school. While it is necessary that children learn Mishnayot, they also need to know geometry and algebra II well - and anything more advanced than algebra II is almost unheard of, and G-d forbid one mentions calculus. History is over barely covered and overly Jewish centered. Again, our children certainly need to know our history, but they should also know things like the American Civil war and the English Civil war (or even that there was an English Civil war). Jewish history can not be properly understood when it is divorced from the larger world that Jews have always lived in. The most troubling thing I have seen is disparity in the education of girls vs. boys in terms of mathematics and science. Girls are simply not expected to learn as much of these subjects as boys and they are certainly not pushed to go further. Why be a scientist when you are going to go to Stern, get married and start a family? Finally, If he want's (notice the he...) to learn calculus, he can just study extra. Just as you can not learn Torah properly at Sunday school, math and science take a bit more nurturing and focus than that.

I am happy that you made the decision of sending your child to a yeshivah. When my parents went to public/private secular school many Jews there has strong Jewish identiies. Jews were traditional, loyal to their families and would never intermarry! Many Jews that I know who went to public school do not care about anything that has to do with Judiasm. Also, on a practical level how can you expect certain limitation to your child (dating non-Jews, keeping shabbat, hoildays and kosher) then put them in an enviornment where everyone can do what they want. I don't think its' fair to the child! Parents can still teach Jewsih values to their children who go to secular schools, but they are risking the chances that their children may not care. I hope you inspire a lot of people!

Our son goes to day school and we are very happy with his education. However we have a very hard time understanding and affording the $15,000 tuition for kindergarden. It is unfortunate that tuition should function as birth control in our community.

A priest and a rabbi had houses of worship across the street from each other. Both the synagogue and church were rather old and the church was overrun with rats. The priest asked the rabbi one day why the shul wasn't infested with the vermin. "That's easy," the rabbi explained, "we give them a bar mitzvah and they disappear." That's not meant to be funny. It is meant to illustrate what happens in virtually every synagogue to which I have belonged. As soon as a kid got his "papers" he or she were never seen again. Why? Because Jewish kids are NOT being taught what it means to be a Jew. I have asked Jewish kids why they are Jews. At least 80% say, "Because we don't believe in Jesus." They are ripe, low hanging fruit for missionaries to the Jews. Ask the average Jewish kid to explain Leviticus 17:11 and they're already half way to becoming new Christians when the missionary asks, "So since the blood is what atones for your sin and you don't have a blood sacrifice anymore, doesn't it just make senses to accept Jesus' blood which he spilled for you? Of course, the entire chapter simply is talking about NOT EATING BLOOD; the 11th verse is just explaining the only proper use of blood. In Torah we read that nobody can die for the sins off another; Ezekiel 18 is all about nobody being able to die for another's sins, yet our children DO NOT KNOW THAT and they NEED to know those facts. Right now, on many college campuses, anti-Israel and anti-a Semitic demonstrations are being paid for by the Muslim Students Association who, in turn, are being paid by various Arab countries. Are our children ready for that? Are they ready to support Israel and support their own Judaism? Sadly, for most Jewish children, the answer is a resounding NO.

I went to Jewish day school from 18mos. to 8th grade. We prayed every day, learned Hebrew/Jewish history, and then learned the typical school subjects of history and English. While it was a great experience, it pushed myself as well as most of my classmates away from Judaism. I am still a Jew, but I rarely, if ever, go to synagogue and I don't remember much about customs, holidays, traditions, etc. I think sunday school is the best option if you want your child to have a Jewish education, and here is why: 1) We live in a global society, and kids these days love diversity. JDS's shelter kids too much. 2) Smothering your kids in Judaism every day is too much. I believe that if I had gone to sunday school rather than a JDS I would have been much more into my Judaism then and today.

Wow, I don't agree with your alleged cause-and-effect percentages at all. Parents can instill strong feelings of Jewish identity that evolve into a strong desire for a Jewish spouse no matter where their children go to school. While a high percentage of the parents who do so are in the group that sends their children to Jewish day schools, and the percentage of future intermarriage of such students will therefore be significantly lower, I do not appreciate your faulty cause-and-effect logic that the reason for the lower intermarriage rates is the schools, rather than vice versa.

Kol Hakavod, wonderful article! Yes, we do sacrifice a lot of material goods to send children to Jewish day school but the benefits are enormous! You get a high chance to have a respectful child, whose individuality is formed on the solid fundament of 3,500 Jewish tradition and not a cookie cutter average Joe raised exclusively by mass media sharing tastes and opinions of the mediocre masses. My Irish neighbours sent their children to a Catolic school because they are impressed how our children turned out in the Jewish religious school. My daughter goes to a Jewish high school where boys read Descartes instead of watching TV and where every student is her friend and knows her name instead of a small ethnic / social class clique of kids in an industrial size mass product public high school. Yes, we did not save money throughout 10 years that our children went to day school, but we did not loose them in bad investments either and with G-d's help survived the financial crises.

I have a son who may or may not have ADHD. His father does, and he has all the symptoms of it. I have done what I can to increase his Thiamin intake which fights this disorder. His best academic progress was in the local Jewish Day School and their secular academia was at least two years ahead of public school from Kindergarten onward. However, since the third grade I have had to put him in home school because I can't afford the day school which has nearly triple the yearly tuition because they are building an actual school. While I applaud them, what is wrong with using the temple during the week as a school? Many, many churches do this and have for decades. It saves them money. I am a single parent with a special needs child and I refuse to subject him to the cooie cutter solutions of public school. He will end up in all sorts of 'special needs' (i.e. dumb naughty kid) programs that don't really do anything but separate and later in "at risk" programs. So I work at night and school in the day or vice versa. I buy my supplies at Barnes and Noble and TAPS. Much much cheaper. And I own a JPS english-hebrew Tanakh as do each of my children, purchased at Barnes and Noble. We read daily together.

After reading comments subsequent to mine,it's clear that one cannot generalize about Jewsh day schools based on individual experiences. My family was fortunate to fall into a good one, but that certainly doesn't mean all are good (as some writers make abundantly clear), nor can one label day school as a bad idea because of bad experiences at a particular school. (One of the continual problems is funding; even federations that contribute can't carry the whole load. Less funding means a less-rich academic and extracurricular envionment. To the parents of special-needs children: You, too, can't generalize. One of my sons has ADD, the other ADHD. They both are smart as whips, but even with medication and therapy, they could be a problem in the classroom, my younger son particularly. But almost all their teachers saw their talents, efforts and good natures and worked with them and us to find solutions. As the school grew, it added a consulting child psychologist; I am forever in her debt. She patiently explained to the principal and our younger son's teachers what behaviors are caused by ADHD -- not by the child's willfulness but by his brain's "wiring." With the psychologist as an advocate and his therapist and with a new principal with decades of public-school experience willing to listen to the psychologist -- and real affection and concern for her students -- that son did very well academically (although he, too, never did well with Hebrew). The son with ADD now is a Ph.D. candidate and the son with ADHD is a mechanical engineer. I'm not bragging, just pointing out what can be achieved with caring teachers and principals, a good psychologist as advocate and lots of staff patience and parental involvement. Not every day school is going to go to the trouble -- but those who are really invested in their students' success, who really care about each student, will.

In Israel, you can have full time Jewish curriculum at public school rates

There are absolutely no drawbacks to a good Jewish education. Yes it is costly, not as costly as a Catholic School or a "Christian" school, but far superior to almost every other type of formal education because it is truly an education instead of merely an indoctrination based on the political views of those in power at the time standards were made. Christian schools are very biased, public schools are merely babysitting centers, and other private schools don't share the quality credentials Jewish schools easily boast. The added benefit of a good Jewish education's historical explanation of what Judaism is is priceless and worth it if at all possible. To those who would detract or make a stink over the choice of a good Jewish education I say sour grapes will only make you sick.

#13, you stated that "people from all walks of life are over working and not spending enough time with their families." Maybe you have chosen to live in a major metropolitan Jewish area where housing, transportation, and commodity prices are through the roof. I do not hail from such a place, and I don't care to live in one. You have chosen your standard of comparison, and clearly that standard of comparison involves folks who spend their lives "keeping up with the Joneses." I come from a very different kind of town, and I refuse to accept that a love of God and Torah automatically forces me to surround myself with hordes of career-obsessed workaholics who think that spending one day a week qualifies them as a family. Where I come from, people still eat dinner almost every night of the week as a family. Where I come from, people don't much care what you do for a living--they care how you treat others. If living in such a place means that I'm not surrounded by Jews 24 hours a day & 7 days a week then so be it. Samson Raphael Hirsch preached Torah Im Derekh Eretz. You have your derekh eretz. It most certainly is not mine.

My daughter attended a K-6 Day School (the only one in the area), and received an excellent religious and secular education. Unfortunately, while she has a strong Jewish self identity, the school's refusal to deal with bullying or to deal with her as an individual, left her with a terrific self identity, a good knowledge of Judaism, and no desire to participate as a member of the larger Jewish Community. She easily completed her Bat Mitzvah, and passed the NY Hebrew Regents exam with a 99, but has no feeling of connection to her former classmates, her synagogue, or any other Jewish institution. She now attends a Roman Catholic prep school (poor public schools), where she is in the minority, but where her knowledge of scripture and different viewpoint are respected, appreciated and valued. She is happy and performing well and feels like a member of her school community. If I had to make this decision today, I am not sure what I would decide.

My son is not allowed a Jewish Day School experience in my city because he has a learning delay. Recently diagnosed with ADD/ADHD, he has been in public school since the Fall and is doing okay. The Day Schools don't have the resources (or refuse to put in the extra effort) to teach kids whose abilities fall below the norm. Jewish communities everywhere should make a Jewish Education available to all Jewish children, even those with special needs.

After one and a half disastrous years, I pulled my son out of the local day school and it was the best decision I ever made. The secular studies program was mediocre at best because it was not a priority for the parents. Politics, not ability, determined who was hired so teaching quaility was spotty. Politics also determined how kids were treated. Kids whose parents or grandparents were big donors were handled differently from those who were not well connected. My son's bad experience at day school destroyed his love for yiddishkite. Fortunately, with a lot of patience on the part of the loving teachers at his Reform after school program he is finally interested in Judaism again.

I want Jewish grandchildren, and my concerns about my grandson's secular education in kindergarten were blown away. He is reading short stories in English and his math skills are excellent. We can daven together, and his enthusiasm for attemding school is delicious. We walk toward the bus stop -- yup long ride -- and he races away when the yellow approaches. My child who had a better Jewish education has assimilated. The other, who was not the best student is wonderfully Shomer Shabbos. Is the summer vacation more important than the chuppa?

Here's what it boils down to folks. Do you want Jewish grandchildren? Then you put your children in situations where they're going to meet, study, socilaize and spend their free time with other Jews. We sacrifice to send our child to SAR High School in Riverdale, NY. The education is top-notch, as are the extra-curricular activities. There are a full range of athletics year round, and the teams play other yeshiva high schools.NOTHING is left out - even evolution and sex ed, though from a Torah prespective. You want your child to remain Jewish? In this day and age, there is no other option. Kids who go to afternoon Hebrew school are seriously at risk at just growing up Jewishly ignorant, because Conservative synagogues hire Conservative Jews who know very little themselves. And while the Jewish studies teachers in conservative day schools may know a little more, if they're not themselves practicing Jews, what is it they're passing on to the kids?

My kids go to a Jewish Day School. The sense of Jewish identity and education they are receiving is amazing. I know we have made the right choice for our children. It is not for everyone - some schools cannot accommodate children with special needs or learning styles. The education (secular ) is very good and made better by having a bunch of kids with them that have parents who care about their child's education. We have a uniform the kids must wear. Most of all this school has provided them an understanding of and appreciation of Judiasm which I know has become part of who they are.

#5 are you kidding me, people from all walks of life are over > working, and not spending enough time with their families. Thank G-D > we have Shabbat; the rest of the world does not. If day school was > something you wanted, like a new car, you would fit it into your > budget. Don’t kid yourself. Do you tithe? If you do consider asking > your rabbi about using some of that money for tuition. It’s a > worthwhile cause. They don’t teach morals in public school. That is a > big focus in jewish schools. It’s a worthwhile investment - they > teach kids to respect their elders, you get what you pay for.

Obviously, Jewish day school quality varies, and I feel bad for those who invested so much for such little positive result. (Reading Torah in a miniskirt? Well, hey, she's reading Torah! Better she shouldn't know how?) I'm fortunate to live in Minneapolis,where the (non-denominational) day school begun soon after our first son was born provided an excellent secular education and one of the most-essential goals for Jewish identification: positive childhood Jewish experiences. The school was so small when we began that the only hot-lunch day was Friday and food was prepared by the parents, which was its own bonding experience; the school was like an extended family. In the 22 years since our first son started, the school has grown nearly sixfold and become so attractive it runs at capacity -- and that's with a separate non-demoninational school in St. Paul and more than one Orthodox day school. Day school was a fabulous ground for learning -- bright students from homes that valued education, with few of the big behavioral problems that drag down public-school teachers' efforts. A friend described it as "students each jumping out of the chair to answer every question," and that wasn't much of an exaggeration. Students learned to work together and speak before an audience. Parents did have high expecations, but I don't recall favoritism based on parental financial contribution. I. too, had to persuade people that it wasn't somehow un-American to send my sons to a "parochial" school. But I realized that much of my parents' generation's resistance was because public school had been their way *in* to America, to become accepted as "real" Americans. My problem was just the opposite -- helping my children want to be Jewish in a society where it's so easy to quit. Was it expensive? Sure, and moreso now that we probably couldn't afford it. We sharply curtailed plays, concerts and costly activities for a more-important investment. Was it worth it? Every agora.

I had some of these same fears when my children started at our large day school. What I should have been worried about, though, was something quite different. So-called "community" or "pluralistic" day schools often cater to families with limited Jewish background and, sadly, little sense of connection to Hashem. These families want their kids to learn, but they don't want to change the way they actually live. The students attending these schools see many of their classmates ignoring Shabbat and sending text messages during davening. In some ways, this is worse than what would occur in a public school. Here we have Jews who shrink from the most basic elements of Jewish life. Bottom line: anyone who thinks day school is a panacea is living in a dream world.

If the parents are less observent an environment like Solomon Schecter will give kids basics and they can go from there. if parents keep more such as Shabbat an Orthodox day school or yeshiva are great choices. There is too much to learn for aftrenoon Hebrew schools to work. Tuition should be subsidized by Federations . Seems to me that Money needed here even more than in Israel

My husband and I really tried our best, but without community support, that alone wasn't good enough. It really does "take a village".

We pulled our daughter out of day school after second grade for many of the reasons mentioned, and we will regret this decision forever. She was struggling in math and hebrew and felt the dual curriculum was too difficult for her. But she would have ended up having private hebrew learning (how did we miss that?) and although she has a Jewish heart, she struggles reading hebrew, dislikes going to shul, really disliked the hebrew schools we sent her to, and we are worried about her Jewish future. She is going to college in New York next year, and we can only hope she meets a nice Jewish man, but we really feel that we failed her in this regard. The money, which was always an issue, would have been managed somehow. She was very happy in public schools and thinks she is fine. We can only hope and pray that G-d is with her and goes with her to guide her. Bottom line--send the kids and keep them in day school!

I am a senior in Bais Yaakov of Baltimore, an ultra-Orthodox all-girls school. I feel that I have received an outstanding secular education. In fact, my school not only finishes the high school curriculum by 11th grade, but it also offers many higher-level classes, such as Honors and AP classes. We also have the option of many extra classes, such as computer programming, computer graphics, paint, guitar, sewing, and many others. I am now taking a few college courses and I am able to easily handle the extra workload because I am used to juggling a full schedule. Having attended Bais Yaakov for all my years of schooling, I would highly recommend parents to send their children to a school like mine.

I am familiar with a situation similar to what #1 is describing, maybe the same. A family pulled their two daughters out of a new girls' high school in an out of town community in favor of online schooling. That family has had issues with religious Jewish education in the past. They pulled their younger children out of our community day school the year before, saying similar things, and without talking to the school about their concerns. Many online schools simply refuse to evaluate the academics of any school that isn't a "regular school", finding it more convenient to charge for more years of schooling. I think that #1 should not judge an school by the reaction of one family, but examine it closely. Much damage is done through loshon hara, and by jumping to conlcusions from a small amount of evidence.

Day school prices, even with all the "tuition assistance" and "scholarship aid" in the world, have produced a generation of families in which men work until all hours during the week and imagine that it is all redeemed by being able to spend one day a week--that sacred shabbos--with their families. Tell me to surrender the weekly dinner with my family in order to buy into a system of overpriced education that did not exist before Rav Soloveitchik invented it in 1937? With all due respect, some of us value our role as father a bit too much to buy that line. I'll teach my kids, get them tutoring, and make it work. And if I fail, then at least I'll know that I gave them a gift greater than all the day school hours in the world: the gift of a real, 7-day-a-week, father.

I was a general studies teacher in a Solomon Schechter Jewish Day school in the Silicon Valley. The sense of entitlement the parents and students had was shocking. 3 1/2 hours a day to teach Reading, Writing, Science, Social Studies and Math to 23 students at a time is NOT enough in elementary school. We had NO special ed teachers, no nurse, no dress code, girls wearing mini skirts to read from the Torah (in addition to their cleavages showing). Many children there "hated being Jewish" and felt forced into participation of many Jewish activities. As far as learning about other cultures, that was nearly non-existent. The cost? $17,000 a year. Families who donated the most money received preferential treatment, i.e. their child had no consequences when he or she would punch another student or destroy school property. My experience with Conservative Jewish Day Schools, at least in the CA Bay Area has been most unpleasant.

Are the sciences history and geography courses serious - or dodging evolution - which is pertinent to drug resisitant bugs ? Do the Jewish history lessons permit questioning as much as the other lessons in the curriculum? ie do the Jewish course teachers know their subject properly and its reasoned defence? or are they authoritarian "Skinner's rats" / Pavlov 's dogs teachers who can not do anything else? Is Hebrew taught not only as "kodesh" but as a spoken language that the children can use for daily purposes? One of the minor successes in South Wales is that the pupils of a basically anglophone population are taking to Welsh because it is their private language from their parents. Very fundamentally are the Jewish studies being taught in sucha way as to demonstrating their positive use and not just as something to tick the boxes of "being educated"?

#1, please look around at the large numbers of Jewish professionals and academics - doctors, lawyers, psychologists, mathematicians, accountants, etc. - who are day school graduates in addition to "Rabbis, mohels or shochets" and you will be that your statement is highly inaccurate and misleading. Your local experience is the exception rather than the rule. Jewish schools are known to score high on city and state levels. I went to an ultra-Orthodox school and scored above 90% (mostly in the high 90's) on all my NY State Regents exams with no additional tutoring. Even in your case where the local Jewish day school seems to be academicaly weak, it is a matter of setting priorities. Parents who value the Jewish identity of their children above scholastic achievement would rather leave their cildren in a school where secular studies are not top-level and supplement it on Sundays or at home rather than send them to public school and supplement Jewish studies at Sunday school. It boils down to core values. Please choose wisely!

What about parents who do not live in large frum communities? I live in a place with only one frum Jewish day school for elementary education, then another for high school. The elementary school's academic (math, science, etc.) curriculum is alright, but not particularly good and certainly not something that will give the kind of foundation necessary for a career outside of a rabbi, mohel or shochet. The girls high school is so poor in secular education that a family recently pulled their daughters out of it. It turns out the girls now have to make up almost two full years' worth of academic studies in their online schooling if they wish to graduate on time. To make it worse, people reacted terribly to them as a result and classmates even claimed that the girls would not be able to get shidduchim because of this (which is obviously untrue). I love the idea of sending my children to day school, but I must admit I worry about this. Unfortunately, others feel the same way, but the schools are not allowing students to spend half of the day there for Jewish studies. Presumably, the secular studies would be handled at home by parents or tutors. What should people like us do to not be the brunt of the community's ire?