General Petraeus & Us

Granted, Gen. Petreaus is a very brilliant man, but older and not particularly attractive. Granted, the young lady he had the affair with is stunning, married, and a mother. I can see his interest in her, but where is her interest in him? Power and influence. I'd be inclined to say this was entrapment simply because she'd also visited the White House along with her attractive friend from Florida more than once. Both women appear to have more than one agenda going. Something smells here... There is never an innocent victim that was taken advantage of when people decide the involvement with the other person is somehow OK.....my mom always said you usually find exactly what you're looking for when it comes to people having/wanting an affair. I made it a point while dating to let the other person know that that is something I would not forgive. If I can hold to my vows and contract, I expect the same. If they ever decided to have an affair they best tell me first, then leave home, because finding out afterwards would leave them financially destitute! Giving the other spouse an option in these circumstances is the kindest and most moral thing you can do. Lies always surface, usually when you least expect them.

Lori, the way I see it.........anyone can fall in 'love' and fall out of 'love' at anytime. It does happen even if you're never alone together with the 'other person'.. Call it chemistry, or lust, or longing, and sometimes it is actual romantic love. If we make an early decision to never be unfaithful to our spouse, then we must break up the marriage before we persue a relationship with the other person. Most people would never leave their marriage for an affair. The words we hear when they are found out are...."They don't want to hurt their wife or disrupt their childrens lives". What a crock! That is of course a lie rationalized greatly to look as tho' they are being honorable. They're still going to have the affair aren't they? They are Jerks, inclulding Petraeus. He cared more about his own pleasure than giving his wife the respect she deserves, by his leaving the marriage before the affair.

and above described situations happen all to often. I so much appreciate the laws of Yichud, together with Tzniut. It so much strenghtened me while becoming religious (from a party animal - to a frum Jew).

I grew up fielding comments from "friends" and neighbors about my philandering father and experienced first hand how painful it is to family members, all family members. I tried to find a husband who held the Laws I was taught, but without any guide I failed miserably.

Married women need to be aware of what is happening around them. If there is a nanny in the house, she should be old and unattractive ( I know that sounds funny). Or, the nanny, should not be around when the husband is home. It's better to protect your marriage than have a clean house. If a husband needs to have a secretary, she shouldn't be young and attractive. If the wife has female friends that are making too much conversation with husband over a shabbat meal or in general, the wife should limit contact with this person. It's sad that married women have to think like this. But these are the times that we are living in! I've heard of way to many nanny, secretary, best friend and other cases where the men should not have been in those situations to begin with!

My aunt's ex-husband ran off with his young, attractive female secretary. I also stopped having a certain single female over at my house because she and my husband were too friendly with each other.

I do thank you for informative pages and interesting articles. I am 66 years of age and no longer expect to have children. :-) However I read even your childcare articles because they are presented in such a way as to be interesting. Thank you for a fine website.

The infidelity is inexcusable. However, there are many in the USA that believe that is a side issue. We believe he is being forced to retire for reasons connected to Benghazi. I guess we will never know the whole story about Benghazi.

Let's put aside the fact that General Petraus was an appeaser of the Arab/Muslim agenda and was not a great supporter of Israel and that this 9 year war in Iraq and Afghanistan has resulted in more terror and mayhem in these countries than ever before. The reality is that the social engineering of the military, including allowing men and women to serve in close proximity to one another, has led to tremendous promiscuity among the soldiers. It is a travesty because the military is not a place for these shenanigans and it's sole job should be to protect the American people and their allies!

Playing it safe that is okay. But what is safe enough ? It all depends on the individuals .example ; Nanny watches over baby in bedroom.Husband enters makes advances ,spouse in the living room . Nanny ignores the man and quits the job . Tells the wife and she can't believe it . Why because she was at home infact ,she goes everywhere with her husbands to avoid that he gets involved with other women.

It may be critical to have a indescretion but to what extent is that indescretion. Also does not a woman have many fantasies that are unchecked. How terrible is it to make publicity and money from such events. The whole background and analysis of the realtionships involved are not based on accusations but on the facts and their degree of severity. If one associates themselves with Dutch culture then liberalism has to be taken in to account different from libertarianism as a way of describing Americanism. In a working environment men and women work together but the social context is not taken into account as procedures do nto allow for this in definite details but keep everything vague as employment is about geting the job assigned done and whatever goes on a social or private level is "out of work". Gospodina Palatnik. Prosze rozumiac daroga rabota, daroge nauka, daroga prakowac. Eto milosch i lyubi w osobim niet. Spasibo. Self evaluation and self judgement are a personal decision and not a group choice.

Two days ago I submitted a comment on this article. It does not appear on this board. My message is surely no more offensive than any other (I don't think it's offensive at all); and my writing is surely no worse than much of what appears in the commentaries. People write in half-sentences, they spell poorly, and in many cases the messages simply are incoherent. On what grounds, may I ask, did you disqualify my comment? Thank you.

But I don't know why. Nothing I post gets printed. Maybe because I'm a Christian.

Tammy, Do they think I'm Christian too? Don't know how they figured it out.

I already replied with my comment...The Torah was wreitten long time ago. (Just like the Bible.) I am not Jewish, but I have a warm feeling for the people and I used to have many Jewish friends , when I lived in Germany (I am from Finland). I have followed the Holcaust as soon as it bacame public thru the Freedom of Infomation Act.. It shocked me to the ground and ever since then my feelings have strengthened.

i had a business meeting with a friend who was divorced. this man stayed at our home many a time, with my husband and children. but when i went to a restaurant with him on business, you can't imagine the looks i got from people. i was so uncomfortable so much so that when a mutual male friend walked by, i literally grabbed him and told him sit down!! i can be with two men in public but not just one. people have the wrong perceptions of things and this is not what I wanted. i did not have to be in the "mouth" of others.

Can I recommend that you invite a friend to sit with you when you need a repairman. My church also teaches that unmarried men and women should not be alone together. I have a friend that we take turns sitting with each other whenever a repairman is needed. Not just for the sake of the marriage but for personal safety as well.

The general had an attraction to a woman, and that attraction was apparently shared by her; do you expect to hold this man to a higher moral standard? Preaching that reading and knowing Torah will somehow inhibit natural urges misses the whole point. We have a set of rules and regulations, but their observance is only honored as long as their adherents want to. You don't need rules against yichud to prevent sexual immorality; you just need self-control and self-restraint, and a personal code of honor

As a young adult. I wasn't observant. I married at age 23. I was a musician/vocalist, at the time. My husband was also a musician. I was ignorant of Yichud, as was my husband. I've always been faithful to my husband. As of today, it just so happens that we've been married for 19 years, B'H. However, because of my musicianship, I was around men in private, many, many times over the years. I can tell you that even if you don't have an affair, that it can look like something is going on, when it's not. We want to abstain from even the appearance of evil. There were people who suspected, even assumed that I was having an affair, at times. Even my husband went through a spell when he suspected things. I hated bringing heartache to my beloved husband, as I would never do anything to harm him. I love him with all of my heart. However, me being in the company of these men wasn't right, nor did it look right, even if nothing happened between us. I really didn't know that, back then. My husband and I have since matured and come to grips with all of this. Both he and I now understand that neither of us are to be in close corners with the opposite sex, if at all possible, while alone. That being said, Yichud is of utmost importance. It shouldn't be looked upon as a burden, per se. I think that there are times when there are exceptions. But if we can, we shouldn't allow ourselves to be alone with people of the opposite sex, unless it is for exceptional and very necessary reasons. And even then, it should be done with much caution. Today is my our 19th wedding anniversary. I am happy that Hashem showed me mercy and allowed me to keep myself from ever cheating on my husband, who honestly could never be replaced. He truly is my soul mate; the best friend I ever had, in life. May he be blessed forever.

Lori, I've worked in several places where most or all my colleagues were Jewishly observant, and nowhere did anyone insist on addressing others or being addressed by others according to a title and last name (e.g. "Mrs. Palatnik"). I suspect that either this is not an issue of Jewish law, or that the law considers prevailing social norms.

Lori, you said you cancel the repair if your husband's out of town. What if he is not out of town but is at work, not home? I would never be able to get any repairs done at my house because my husband is away for more than 12 hours a day. Somehow I've had repair people here and have been faithful for 30 years.

That's not entirely correct. You don't have to cancel. Just make sure the door is open when he's there. Or you can ask a neighbor to pop in at least once

The laws are stricter if he is out of town. If he is in town, the door must be unlocked and ideally ajar.

There are plenty of perfectly competent female plumbers, HVAC technicians, electricians and carpenters. You just have to look for them. They charge a fair price, don't waste your time, never leave a mess and are grateful for the work.

One friend of mine noted that there have been MANY leaders who have had affairs and have NOT fallen. This was about people wanting to shut him up. (Clinton didn't fall, Kennedy didn't fall, the list could go on.) The laws of yichud are important for many reasons, this is not the top reason. This case is not about yichud, it's about lies and the deception of the people of the US.

Possibly, Mr./Ms. Anon: 1) The primary reason is the military Code of Honor that obligates our officers in the various armed services to act as gentleman. Failure to do so constitutes grounds for dishonorable discharge. 2) Political factors lurk beneath the surface like alligators in hiding. Time will tell, but I suspect that both parties were caught by surprise and will attempt to manipulate the situation to their advantage. 3) Petraeus and Allen still have a sense of shame and decency, as well as duty, that dictates their actions.

The Torah's laws of Yichud are very realistic about human nature. And this article is about the subsequent lies and deception of one involved in illicit matters. It's not limited to the people of the US but to all human beings. The Torah and it's guidelines are about understanding human nature i.e. the yetzer hara and tov and following the Torah's proscribed 'security fences' helps keep our evil inclinations in check - in order to move toward holiness and spiritual/personal growth.

Their sexual exploits have contributed to the degradation and decline of America.

Interestingly enough, in the NYC public school system, all staff are instructed that they may never be alone in a closed room with ANY student - especially not a student of the opposite sex. So on some level, there is a realization by a totally secular organization that Yichud is a problem.

I'm also a public school teacher, and when I work with students, the door is always ajar or open. People can walk in at any time.

As a single woman I have to have workmen in my home. At the first sign of any touching I would definitely tell the repairman to go home ASAP. I know how the sexual impulse can take over when one least expects it to. Been there, done that without intending for anything to happen...not with repairmen, with dates. I don't date either.

I agree with many of the comments - that people should be responsible for their actions and it isn't always feasible in the modern world to maintain that separation - particularly in the workplace. But being mindful of the risks and maintaining some distance is just good sense. If there was a ring of fire all around you and you wanted to avoid being burned, would you walk along the edge or stay more to the center where the risks are lower? That's sort of how I think of it. I worked in a very "corporate" and integrated environment for many years and worked late nights and long hours with male colleagues, but I maintained enough distance to be professional and safeguard myself and my own values. I think that's the key message here.

I completely agree with this article. It should be noted that the Reverend Billy Graham would never allow himself to be alone with a woman not his wife. I recall his once meeting with Hillary Clinton in a public restaurant to avioid any suggestion of impropriety.

People are very quick to pass judgement on General Petraeus and the wife is the victom. We don't know what his home life was like. Men and women get into a comfort zone and let themselves go. No one seems to address what was home life like? At what point is it ok for one spouse or the other to no longer have interest in sex? I was in a sexless marriage for almost 5-6 years at age 35-40. We remained married. I was faithful but for that period of time I began to think that kind little to no sex was normal. When you go from an intimate home life to a roomate situation is the man or woman totally to blame. If sex becomes a burdon for either person is it still a marriage? It is very sad when men and women let themsevles go in marrage then after the divorce they start to lose the weight, tan, start taking care of themselves so they can present themselves to someone new. We are too polite to ask the question; "When was the last time they had sex?" Crude as that may sound it is the truth. Ultimatly men and women are human and as humans it is a wonderful feeling to be desired. To feel someone is genuinly interested in you. At what point in any marriage is it acceptable to no longer be a sexual partner in the marriage? Is it still a marrage? Who is the victom? Who was wronged?

You're perfectly, exactly right. One has to see both sides of the coin and place himself in the situation or event that took place, THEN criticise or comment.

The General did not stand a chance. He and his mistress were thousands of miles away from home, in an alien environment. She was writing his biography and they were "embedded" together, meaning, she was there all the time in the field with him. It is impossible that a normal man and woman would not have an intimate relationship under such circumstances. The major wrong decision was to allow such a situation in the first place. No matter how smart or moral we are, we are human. We need the h umioity to admit that we need guidelines laws such as the yichud laws to prevent such calamities in our lives.

This article suggests the easy way out. Judaism teaches us that the things that we work toward the hardest are usually most fulfilling. I dont think 1x1s with opposite sex are treacherous ground; unless your intent is. Self-control is very important; knowing that your family and your spouse are more important to you than another woman is a must. Why marry and select the partner for life otherwise? It may be practical to keep out of situations that are questionable but avoiding them altogether is closing yourself off. I've learnt a lot of other men in my life who are not my husband; mentors, coaches and peers. Opportunity to meet with them 1x1 allowed us to get know each better and have a better influence on each other's lives.

many people with lots of self control fall is it worth it?

I find articles like this to be shallow and lacking substance. The first discussion should be an exploration of why someone cheats to begin with. Plenty of people don't follow these laws, but instead live up to their personal commitments and ethics first. Making someone behave by enforcing it with a law should be the last resort. Secondly, who really cares about what someone does behind closed doors? What does that have to do with their talents and ability to do the job? JFK is loved and revered as one of the greatest US Presidents, but it is well known about his affairs. Unfortunately, the US was settled by "Puritans" - today they would be called religious extremists, and we have this double standard about holding these people to some standard that doesn't exist in the rest of our society. It is a terrible waste that we lost a great and talented leader because of something that was nobody else's business. Lastly, I get a sense of meanness from authors like this when someone prominent falls, whether it is the general or Lance Armstrong - someone at Aish will delight at kicking them when they are down under the guise of "teaching us a lesson." Is it really the lesson, or are you just smug at telling us about how great you are (with your big bio at the bottom) and how much better you are than them. Until you can walk in their shoes, maybe you should stick with talking about yourself rather then taking potshots at folks that actually achieved greatness. So they're not perfect. Don't forget that the only one that never stumbles is Hashem.

Michael, I disagree with you. Military leaders are instructed not to be alone/behind a closed door with a member of the opposite sex, because of just the mere appearance of favoritism or impropriety. Perception is reality. David Petraeus not only had an affair, he even documented it on email. With his judgment compromised, his superiors had no choice but to ask for and accept his resignation - regardless of whether or not he shared classified information with someone who didn't have a need to know.

It must surely be all right to be alone with a man (or woman) in an emergency. And while I totally agree that one must not only be innocent, one must be seen to be innocent, cancelling a repairman's visit seems a bit extreme; I wouldn't want to have water pouring into the house or any other household emergency rather than have a repairman in the house-when one of our windows shattered in a storm, I would not have wanted to have it like that in winter if my husband hadn't happened to be here. Nor would I die rather than be alone with an ambulance man...but in other situations, I agree that it's best to avoid any appearance of wrong-doing. It's far too easy for a man to be wrongly accused, if nothing else.

Great Article. The following are some brief points to it and some replies: 1. Yichud is permitted with some relatives (e.g. a child or grandchild; a sister but the latter not on a permanent basis as sharing a home). 2. Not calling members of the opposite sex by their first names depends on the community. Lakewood (BMG centered) holds strictly of it. In my fairly strict Torah-true community some adhere to it but many do not. 3. The Torah is not for complete sharing of wealth (Utopian Socialism). One is to help the less fortunate as specified by several Mitzvoth and giving charity in general but not to the point of making everyone ecomically equal.

I don't call my male coworkers by their first names either. It's not allowed and it keeps a healthy distance between us. I don't call male neighbors by first name either.

need I reminded each of us.......look at Samson I think that about summons things up and what about David.......sometimes the mighty have to fall to bring ALL of us back to our values

Good boundaries are a good thing. Temptation is part of life - putting protections in place to support us to do the right thing and make good decisions is the most important thing we can do to both protect our marriage and model for our children protection for their eventual marriage IY"H.

Great article. Thank you so much for writing this!!!!!!

"God'Bless General David Peat,!He is great man.Johny

I am careful about such things, and noticed this right away, because I am keyed, very much keyed, to Petra, in Jordan and WOULD notice this. If a man is going to be attracted to a woman, and vice versa, it's going to happen, and they will find a way, to come together. Rules of engagement often are more enticing when they prevent engagement, as people find what's forbidden often, delicious.

None of this is surprising. In fact, it is so boring already, that I don't even read about it. The only time, I was truly sickened was when John Edwards cheated on his sick wife, without nary a thought of her. Clinton's indescretions did not shock me, as did not all the others who followed. Truth be told, at this time, with America in such a state of moral upheaval, I would just be interested that Petraeus does the job, and I do not care who he sleeps with. Human nature was, is and will be what it is. Those who have a predisposition to cheat will.

is what I was taught by a very smart person. It is only G-d who is perfect and His Torah teaches us rules for living taking in to account human nature. Those rules and improving ourselves are the goals which take a lifetime of work to achieve. The goal is to be on a path and not only to judge others. (I am not excusing these actions.)

Early in my 29 year marriage and early in my observant life, I was a Corporate Payroll Manager and had to work late hours i.e. till midnite, with the Systems Analyst to develop the inhouse payoll system. I reflect now at the situation, and altho there glass walls, cleaning staff, phonecalls to/from our spouses, it could have potentially become something more than a professional relationship. We were not even attracted to each other, but I think the comradery, the caring, the intimate work environment might have led to us feeling so USE TO each other. B"H for my moral standards and that we were not attracted to each other - but we laughed and joked and ate together and worked alot of hours together. I dont know how I would have handled it now (altho I'm 30 year later so a little bit who cares) Could I have refused to work late hours? We had deadlines that had to be met. On a different scenario, I've seen too many frum long-term marriages fail from the husband having an affair with someone from work. Some marriages I knew were bad, but some I was surprised. AND the wife was beautiful. Go figure. The children of some of these breakups do not speak to the father. I also wonder what our tzanuit is doing to our husbands - it can get a little boring for them perhaps? It's a little hard to look or feel pretty if one is a little overweight, doesnt look/feel good in various hair coverings, missing little romantic getaways because of kashrut or finances (altho very accessible in Israel, yeah) - Well I'm glad for my 29 years and now (in Israel) my husband and I work together, so there is little chance ....

The underlying principle of the above commentary is disrespectful to both men and woman. It belittles the presumed existence of Free Will and the ability to distinguish right from wrong and good from bad. Are human beings really so disgustingly sinful that the slightest opportunity or reason or occasion to sin brings out our evil selves? And that the evil and the sinfulness are always there - ready to erupt - under the surface of our public selves/? I Don't think that the God we worship and hold to be Self Evident would have any part of creating such a Side Show on our wonderful planet Earth. Therefore either the principal of inherent evil in the Rules doesn't exist or, perhaps, is wrong, or God made a great big mistake. If we can agree that God doesn't make mistakes than perhaps we were created not for Goodness, but as simply a monumentally crude Reality Show for God's entertainment. Logic tells us you really cannot have it both ways.

I have changed my view. At first I thought it was unnecessary to avoid touching. Then a man who at first just greeted with a bit more appreciation, then a smile, then simply asking "how are you?". And then one day I was passing, and suddenly his hand brushed against mine, but when I glanced up, shocked that he had touched my hand I saw he was smiling and it was intentional. He was married. I knew this. And suddenly I realised that a simple good morning can easily spiral out of control in someone's mind. Even if there is no intent by the woman. Imagine had it been in a seculded situation, would he have tried much more? I fully agree with shomer negia, and even more so when people are married. I just recently noticed a woman speaking to the man I love. We are not yet married, and she giggled a bit more sweetly, then I realised how much I appreciate the laws of separation. We don't need to "bond" with someone who's not our spouse. Its not that we don't trust ourself or our loved one. Its because we treasure them. I won't put my most treasured crystal vase on the side walk for everyone to touch. I will guard it. And so it should be with the person whom I love. And so I should be for the man who loves me. My pappa always said, if you don't start something, then you will never have to stop. The same goes for initiating contact with someone other than your spouse.

GR8 aarticle. Even the infallible can fall in a situation of yichud

Being in an enclosed space with a person of the opposite sex does not entice sexual behavior unless the couple is really seeking sex, and if that is the case religious tenets won't help and certainly get in the way.

Take a poll of healthy adult men who work with attractive same age females and you will see as i have in my informal poll that even those who did not have those thoughts to start, were affected by their healthy sex drive. Thats why its called a sex drive it happens automatically. Judaism is realistic and understands the psyche of mankind. While we like to hide our heads in the sand.

While Batsheva is quite accurate in her comment about the rules of yichud, I am also of the opinion that while these rules are important, and play an important role in respecting the power of sexuality and that it should not be abused or taken lightly, they, in no uncertain manner, also address the assumption that people cannot control themselves and be trusted. I take exception to that assumption. I am of the oinion that if consenting adults wish to make utter fools of themselves and destroy their lives, they should be allowed to. The test of our honesty and maturity is not that our hands must be tied behind our backs and a woman can't wear a cute dress. Isn't this somewhat like trusting your childrens' judgments, based on the presumption that we have brought them up correctly? People make mistakes. They must make mistakes. It defines us as much as our positive middos and Jewish history is based on those mistakes. I am opposed to the very dissemination of information about Petraeus' private life. It's none of my busienss. It's clearly an indiscretion on his part that concerns his family, his wife, and the family of the woman he involved himself with. Your next response is that he is a public figure and cannot be trusted, if he screws around! I feel that has no bearing on the skill set and the reasons he was chosen for the job. Should he quit due this embarrassment? Most certainly. Yet, while there's a clear, underlying intent in laws of yichud, similar to the shrouding of Muslim women, based on the assumption that men shouldn't have to (learn to) control themselves sexually, and therefore women have to be forced to hide their 'attributes,' as Jewish women do to a lesser extent, I find these codes belittling and embarrassing. Sometimes the attempts to mask and pretend that a sexual component is very much a part of our adult identities and the attempt by orthodoxy to force an 'unsexy as possible' uniform on women can seem an overkill, if not a silly reflex.

I definitely hear what you said about how we, as human beings, are imperfect and can/ should grow from our mistakes. There are, however, two things I would like to point out: Firstly, just because G-d gave us these 'rules' to follow, no one is exempt from challenges- including the area of sexuality. Therefore, why would anyone want to set themselves up for failure? Not to mention that G-d is the One who created us, including all of our struggles, feelings and desires- He is doing us such a favor lessening the struggle by putting up firm boundaries. We all know that there are not few, but rather far too many who dig themselves a deep rut because they lack the boundaries... Secondly, the fact that women who follow Jewish law cover themselves isn't just about 'making it easier for men'. I am an orthodox woman and am so, SO happy to be modestly dressed. Why would I want to be treated like a body? No one whistles at me when I walk down the street, men speak to me with respect and don't look me up and down... I do not feel degraded, belittled, or embarrassed at all; quite the contrary, I feel proud and liberated! I don't need to show off my body to prove that I'm worth something. There is a time and place for sexuality, and that's with your spouse- no one else.

Brian, I look at the Torah and mitzvos as signs of G-d's love for us. The pain that is caused by betraying one's spouse and family, losing one's dignity and honor and reputation is so great. It has driven human beings to suicide. G-d wants to help protects us from our own lower natures--our animalistic nature if you will and gave us these laws to guard us from these failures. I think, if given the choice, General Petraeus would have been glad if the army had an equivalent law of no man being secluded with a woman. I don't think the parameters of modesty for women are there so 'that men shouldn't have to learn to control themselves sexually'. I think normal men are created in such a way that they can be aroused by the sight of a woman --and again, be tempted to transgress--with the possiblitly of great destruction to follow. It's an act of wisdom, kindness, discretion and acceptance of the way humans are created that underlie the laws of modesty. A man who strives to be virtuous and do right in the eyes of G-d and man, appreciates the boundaries that G-d set for him--and her--with His compassion and wisdom. By the way, most Jewish observant women I know look wholesome and beautiful and not dowdy or unattractive. I do agree with you, however, that the media does a great disservice by disseminating all the information that it does. I believe that is the reason Petraeus--more than the affair itself-resigned. He knew what the fallout would be and the huge, world-wide public disgrace. Because of the media, America loses a great many capable and talented public servants. I recommend you read Dennis Prager's column on his website about media's exposure of the adulterous affairs of public figures--as well as his columns about marriage and the differences between men and women, He is an articulate spokesman for Orthodox values.

Brian B. says, " I am of the opinion that if consenting adults wish to make utter fools of themselves and destroy their lives, they should be allowed to." But as you yourself admit, it is not just the person himself who self-destructs, it " concerns his family, his wife, and the family of the woman he involved himself with." Unless a person is a complete sociopath with no conscience, truly, no man is an island - anything an individual does has consequences for others, either directly or indirectly.

I agree with your analysis. Yichud is not Torah law but Rabbinical Tradition in response to שׁמר shâmar the ordinances. Separation is not explicit in the Torah to my knowledge. However, the Parsa that is cited for Yichud Lev 18 also speaks of uncovering "ערוה er-vaw' or which exposing the Generals affair is precisely. There is a benefit to respecting the differences and even increasing arousal through that respect. But, separation could also be to the extreme. The separation can make co-mingling after service more enjoyable and concentration during it better. His personal life has no bearing on the skill set and reasons for having the Job. Or even personal integrity. We don't know what effect 7 years of absentiesm had on his relationship or if there was a viable marriage at all. Perhaps he stayed together to avoid the embarrassment he now faces? But, it seems common sense to schedule repairs when the man or children are at home, ect. But, to codify this common sense runs the risk of legalism and gives potential fodder for gossip and evil speech.

Genera Petraeus is a public figure because he is a leader, and leaders, especially military leaders, are required to set the standard for his followers. They do this by following those standards. Also, he was working in a highly sensitive position where misconduct on his part could be used against him to harm this nation.

i found it interesting to reflect how popular it is nowadays to blame 'social media sites' for the downfall of 'otherwise strong marriages'... this saga and its very human woes, seems to prove differently. And the old adages still persist. In some cases women have to realise that there are better bargaining positions than mistress/wife paradigmes - take the maternal stance and dress modestly - especially women in any circumstance of authority Women at home should schedule home repairs afterschool hours so that their children are home with them & a potentially licentious man will see the modest maternal side, only.

One terrific way to mislead people is to over simplify things. Each individual possesses a lifetime's worth of attitudes, experiences and behaviors. Some individuals are weak and some relationships are weak. Most of us and most of our relationships are not. Each of us can made horrible decisions and each of us can be earnest. To summarily dismiss all extramarital male-female friendships or relationships is silly. An affair is not always inevitable. As a happily married man who has dear friends that are female- friends who have been a part of my life longer than my wife has- I will not dump people important to me just because they lack a Y-chromosome.

if your wife was out of town and you invited one of your "dear friends" over for a drink or two, how would that fly wiht her?

One may certainly have friends of the opposite gender. HOWEVER, in such a case it is crucial to abide by certain truths and be mindfully aware of one's feelings. There is a powerful emotional desire in mans heart that draws the opposite sexes to each other, which G-d in his kindnesses has given to mankind so that he will have a desire to procreate. Certainly this same desire will test mans self control and morality, but so did G-d desire it to be. As such how can a man pretend that when he holds another womans hand affectionately or hugs or kisses her that it won't cause a great emotional attatchment. Recognize your feelings, you will see and know that this is true. Hence the Torah has forbid us to be intimately affectionate with the opposite sex. Being in seclusion with a woman, although not intimate in any way, is similarly forbidden as such a private meeting has great potential to cause an affair. This may seem a far fetched wild idea, but one need only look at all the great stumblings which are publicized to realize this truth. When alone, just the two of them, there is nothing to hold them back from engaging in immoral conduct, by becoming subjugated to their own desires. Our Sages in the mishnah have even cautioned us to realize that when we talk extensively and all the more so joke around or act with lightheadedness, with the opposite gender, to pay attention to our feelings. Are we becoming emotionally attached to the other person too much, which can cause the two to be intimate. Friends are friends and we can truly care for them and never want to hurt them or betray them in any way. But we are human and G-d who created man's weaknesses prohibited us from being in suclusion with a married woman and our sages have prohibited seclusion even with a non married woman (barring parents, grandparents, children, grandchildren, and siblings as well to an extent). We are a holy people whom G-d has given the mission of spreading holiness in the world.

Lately, I have been seeing more and more articles which are addressing the issue of whether or not men and women can be "Just Friends". And it seems that pretty much everytime I read an article on it, the women tend to think they can be. However, the men tend to think they can't be, at least for the most part. I think that we all should take a lesson from the many, many times that scandals like these have taken place. You don't have to be a general for it to happen. You can be a Rabbi or a normal working man without a public title. You can be young or old. It really doesn't matter. The principal in Judaism which tells the sexes to be separate from one another is pure wisdom. Men and women should not be together, in private for an inordinate amount of time. It just doesn't work and almost always leads to some sort of awful event. Now, notice I did say almost always. Of course there are exceptions; but why take a risk when you don't have to. To the author of this article: I loved your points. They were very well made and very well taken. I hope we all will finally start to get it. Shalom!

Easy it isn't, I know, but the just dont do it for religious, moral or any other proscriptive reason will and does just not work. One needs to truly and deeply believe in monogomy, of course, but even with this strongly held belief it isnt a " given" that affairs wont happen. We will never be able to legislate human behavior, through religion or belief of any kind, in this way...never. I' m not cynical, I' m just an old " realist.". With Petraus the matter is quite serious beyond filial obligations. The possible security breaches are huge and getting more profound each day.

Mrs. Palatnik, yes I think that works amongst orthodoxy & many religious sects. However,many years ago when I lived in New York city,almost every occasion when the Police raided "madams" & prostitution houses, records revealed that high on the list of clients where ultra orthodoxy, including many chasadic Rabbis. My point is no matter the rules, we humans r sometimes vulnerable, that includes women too!

Yes i totally agree that there is a lot of hypocrisy in religion. However at least Jewish Orthodoxy identifies it as a sin and not a "natural" state as most of the rest of the world. Lets all do teshuva.

...a person by the clothes s/he wears, nor the message by the supposed messenger. The Torah as explained by the sages DOES work, as so, so many can testify. For those who DO follow them, the rules of yichud actually protect us... from our own evil inclinations.

Thank you for a good article. Daily consecration to/with HaShem is the greatist source of fortification against moral failure. Not only study of Torah, but more importantly--time alone with Him--in stillness and in silence--wherein He affirms us in ways which men and women cannot. For it is when we ignore His daily affirmation, that we fall-prey to seeking it from others--hence the stage-set for moral failure.

Sometimes one's home may need immediate repairs. If I am away from home and my husband needs to contact my female plumber, I would give him the green light. Ditto for me contacting a male trades person. We support laws of modesty and formality. However, both my husband and I have common sense and excellent judgment, and would NOT put ourselves in a compromising position.

Famous last words. I pray that you or your husband will never have the occasion to become dsillusioned. Sense and judgment are in the head. Unfortunately, our desires and drives are not always controllable by our heads, even though we try to deceive ourselves that this is the case.

for some one in the military you go on patrol with the person next to you. If that person is not going to shoot, for some reason, you can't have her there. The same--she nor I, can have some code other than that of a soldier--so your argument fails in that respect. The same may be said for working, as a lawyer, or a finance person, etc. Its nice to set out your small little world, and another thing to implement it. None of the women I know would want their career tied in the no advancement rule and no job rules you claim to adhere to. If you would such good wife you would not be supplanting your husband by writing on halaca which is his, not your, provience. a soldier

Dear Soldier, There are many woman within the Orthodox Jewish world who are educated, accomplished and yes, even powerful - heads of companies, teachers...you name it. Just because Torah adjures us to be careful with members of the other gender does not stop us from fulfilling our dreams and calling in this world. I myself am an accomplished orthodox Jewish woman who travels the world and while I do speak to mixed gender audiences, I am very careful to guard the sanctity of my marriage by not being alone with a man who is not my husband. It just makes sense really. Perhaps you would like a study partner to learn more about Judaism with?

It would seem that the rule should be applied equally to both sexes: that you not be alone with one of either the opposite or the same sex, given that sexual attractions can apply both ways.

The prohibition goes both ways. There is no difference in Jewish law regarding Yichud

Is self control really such a big problem people?

Not all people and not all situations are equal. Some people have stronger sex drives. Some people have weaker marriages. Some people have weak self-control. Sometimes a marriage hits a low point, making the spouses more vulnerable to external stimuli. Whatever the reasons, because the Torah is concerned not merely with the individual but also with community and society, it establishes across-the-board restrictions to which a person with a stroing marriage, strong self-control, or weaker sex drive might take personal affront - unless he realizes that the restrictions are intended for the lowest common denominator.

Amazing article and critical to be spread. The only thing I don't agree with, is "it still shocks us" . I don't think too much shocks us any more. Perversion has been unleashed on society and available to all. It's a miracle times are not worse.

Even General Petraeus is only human, why condemn him? This could happen to the best of us.

you got to be kidding -no prohibition has ever stopped people, men and women from having extra-marital affairs. Rules are meant to be broken and often are. Self control is the key. Too much information in the Press for people to revel in.

someone not interested in staying faithful won't. the laws are there to protect the ones that think "it won't happen to them"

Please help me to understand why 70% of the American Jewish vote goes to the liberals that truly don't flinch at Petreius's private life, yet know Torah's teachings? With the Benghazi fiasco added, and the cover up evident, why could not Jews in America at least see the moral and ethical position of Romney when given a chance to choose a leader. I am in the process of converting, yet have a difficult time understanding Jewish voters in all of this. I believe your article presents a Godly position that I hope Petreaus and his wife and all those involved will realize, that like David, we are all susceptible to such weakness. I appreciate your remarks.

Your conclusions about liberals "not flinching" are blindsided by your politics. Perhaps Jewish voters see Obama as having a much stronger ethical and values based consitency than anything they could guess at with Romney?

You mean his support for gay marriage and very late term abortions?

I had (have) multiple concerns about Obama, but I do not think it's right to consider only religious beliefs when they're not consistent on what I think is best for the U.S. That said, the issue with Romney is that it's hard to know who he is and what he believes; he has consistently said what he believed each given audience has wanted to hear. Thus, it's anyone's guess what he would actually have done as president.

All politicians are like that. It's the ones who have a meteoric rise to the top, a cult of personality, a fawning media and a radical world view that you have to watch out for. Like, say, Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Obama.

Despite some clear contradiction to , it is liberal ideals that best capture Jewish Values. Specifically, liberal positions show more compassion at those on the margins of our society. That is especially more important as US enters a prolonged period of anemic growth and (relatively) high unemployment. Now if you want to live in a make-belief world of fox news where Obama spends his time coming up with more ways to hurt Jews, be my guest.

Yes, blacks (the biggest supporters of the Democrats) having the highest poverty levels of any group in America shows how much the Democrats care about compassion. After all, improving their lot might mean they no longer have any reason to vote for the party of slavery and the KKK, and that is unacceptable. Stop watching MSNBC and see how many jobs have been lost already due to the costs of Obamacare

Could you please enlighten me and tell me how many jobs have been lost to Obamacare? Since it has not gone into action as yet, I find it hard to believe that the loss of jobs can be ascribed to the health plan Pres. Obama has put forth. BTW, Obamacare is very similar to the healthcare program put forth by Gov. Romney.

Dear Anonymous, I don't get it either. The corruption exhibited by the Obama administration, from fast and furious to Benghazi and everything in between,including how Israel and Netanyahu are ostracized, should cause anyone with a working mind to reject everything this "most transparent" administration stands for. How much more so when it comes to Jewish people, who above all else are supposed to be moral. Perhaps the notion that the Torah urges us to help those who are in need plays a role in why so many Jews are democrats. However, given the corruption at the highest levels of this administration, I believe having a leader of such high integrity, such as Mitt Romney would have served everyone in this country, and indeed, around the world on a much higher level in the years to come.

If u think Romney has high integrity then I question your definition of integrity. It Is not telling one group of people one thing and then telling a very different group with the opposite opinion something directly contradictory in order to obtain the max votes.

The answer is straight-forward. Jews have a very giving and empathetic soul. If you don't have the Torah to guide you on when and how to be kind, then such a person will give inappropriately and believe illogical philosophies regarding life. Maybe 70% of Jews are liberal, but over 90% of Torah-observant Jews hold conservative values, the highest of any ethnic sub-group.

I think the real reason is because Jews understand their own history. As a Jew you understand that throughout history you were viewed as a second class citizen, or even slave in the eyes of many governments, which is why they side with the social issues of most liberals. As well as the economic ideals of liberals tend to be viewed as what can I do to help those less fortunate. The Jewish Bible speaks in the way that the poor are one of the most holiest people in the world, and how you should help them (economic issues within most liberals). I guess the take away from all this is that American Jewry is one who understands their history, and realizes what is said in the bible, but realizes also that this is a more secular world.

The answer to your question is quite simple. 1. American Jews see themselves as Americans who look at the social issues, too. Remember, if you elect a group who targets one particular for subjugation or discrimination we Jews will not be far behind. Whether or not you are pro or con on the subject of gays and women’s rights take a hard look at the Republican Party’s attitudes. 2. The Republican Party is the party of White, Christian Men who most are affluent and want to control the country. 3. Look at Jewish Torah values, helping the poor, the disenfranchised, rights for women, (Remember Moshe Rabeinu ensured the orphan ladies got their share in Eretz Yisroel), standing up for what is right for those who cannot for themselves, supporting education. These are just few examples. 4. HaShem, the IDF and the Mossad are the protectors of Israel and the Jewish People. 5. The 70% will not be pimped by politicians who claim that they support Israel and parochial school vouchers to get our vote. 6. For those of us, Jews, who live outside of the East and West Coasts in area controlled by the Christian Right, see it every day the eventual focus of discrimination against us. If you do not believe this, take a hard look at Irving, TX or Colorado Springs, CO with truly open eyes. 7. I sincerely hope this answers your question. Remember we, Jews cannot live in a self-imposed ghetto world but must be a light unto the nations. 8. Oh, FYI, when it comes to Eretz Yisroel, it is ours, HaShem gave it to us. Period. On this I am very right winged.

The DNC party platform originally removed the words God and Israel. Then half the delegates voted against them being put back in. The rank and file are more anti Semitic than the leadership. And that should be very worrying. It's time to stop living in the 1930s and realise that the threat no longer comes from the Right but the Left.

The right wing are racists and bigots. The real Jewish values call for redistribution of the wealth. Read parsha Behar.

Jewish values call for doing chesed - kindness and volunteerism- and giving tzedakah. Wealth is considered a test, because it can be used for good or evil, but forced redistribution of wealth is not a Torah ideal or law. I don't want to be poor - but it has never been my goal to be wealthy. My husband and married children work very, very hard, but none of us feels "cheated" or angry that someone else has successfully worked to make millions of dollars. I hope that aish.com will write an article on the Torah view of "redistribution of wealth" because this ominous theme will very much be a part of the current administration, and past history has shown this "redistribution" to be pernicious. Ironically, redistribution of wealth does not make some people better off, it just makes *everyone* except the leaders themselves much worse off.

Haim, you say: "The right wing are racists and bigots." Such a general, blanket condemnation of a huge block of the population, without knowing each individual person in that group, sounds . . . racist and bigoted. Ironic, isn't it?

you mention that "And once you are married, neither spouse can be alone in a private way with someone else of the opposite sex. " this is true even before you are married. The laws of yichud apply to singles and married people equally, and actually start from quite young.

its obvious and noted that singles keep separatess,yichud marrieds are also suseptible of stumbling,too.

That's correct-yichud starts from age three for girls

A while ago, I read an article warning about the potential disasters causes and that can ensue from clandestine love affairs at workplaces. The author provided tips on how to avoid extramarital relationships in a work environment. As a married working woman, I thankfully never encountered such a problem. At one of my previous jobs, a co-worker persistently asked me out on a "coffee date" with him-alone. After refusing his gestures numerous times, I convinced him to ask a non-married female co-worker to accompany him. A lot of people are delusional about being impervious to sexual temptations at workplaces. While most married folks would never dream about cheating on their spouses, there is always those who fall through the cracks. Know who you are and consider the long term repercussions before you act.